Is it worth doing a track day in an Audi S4 B8.5 Avant?

Is it worth doing a track day in an Audi S4 B8.5 Avant?

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The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I recently did the PalmerSport full day experience at Bedford Autodrome and have raced some arrive and drive D-Max and 2 stroke karts on and off for a few years at the usual venues. I have a day booked at the Caterham drift lake at Donington in December but was wondering if it’s worth taking my S4 to a track day and having some fun?

Bedford seems like the safest place to go for a novice but would it be necessary to change the brake fluid and pads before attending? The car is fairly new to me and has brand new P Zeros all round.

Please tell me if you think it’s stupid taking the family estate to a track day!

Ahbefive

11,657 posts

171 months

Thursday 16th November 2017
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I did it in my Volvo. It soon shows uo the weak points and how unsuitable the car is but is still fun.

jassihayre

93 posts

184 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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Its meant to be a practical performance car. At some point its likely to have been tested on a circuit by the manufacturer and later by journalists. See if you can find such an article about how it fared. Also, whilst Bedford is one of the safest circuits it also one of the longest and fastest!

Edited by jassihayre on Friday 17th November 00:20

theboyfold

10,910 posts

225 months

Friday 17th November 2017
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I own an. S4 Avant (2015) and have done several days at Bedford. It's certainly the best track for beginners as you have run off and the GT circuit is generally quite quiet.

What would worry me about the S4 is the repeated stops from big speeds. It's a heavy car and on the longer straights you'll be pulling a lot of speed and without better brake fluid and cooling you might start running into trouble.

By all means do it, but it's not a sports car and not really designed to be honing around on track, so be careful and respect the limits of the car whilst you are there and I'm sure you'll have fun.

davebem

746 posts

176 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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I once did a track day at Mallory in the pouring rain and there was a guy there with a (older) S4 Avant and it was the fastest car there that day.

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Saturday 18th November 2017
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I wouldn't do it. Bedford is very hard on brakes. I can just about do 5-6 hot laps in the Megane on RBF and hot pads before my brake temp will lead to sudden high wear rate. Obviously you can drive around the issue but then it becomes a bit boring and defeats the object, particularly by contrast to how hard you can push on the PS day.

boxsey

3,574 posts

209 months

Monday 20th November 2017
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davebem said:
I once did a track day at Mallory in the pouring rain and there was a guy there with a (older) S4 Avant and it was the fastest car there that day.
Same story with a friend who took his RS4 to a very wet Curborough sprint circuit. He/we had a lot of fun that day. Also sounded great with the noise bouncing off the trees. But at a subsequent dry day at Donington it was hopeless.

james_gt3rs

4,816 posts

190 months

Monday 20th November 2017
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Bedford is tough on brakes, you might prefer a more flowing track like Donington or Brands to help the brakes a bit..

The Stiglet

Original Poster:

2,062 posts

193 months

Tuesday 21st November 2017
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Thanks for the feedback guys, some pretty consistent advice re braking.

theboyfold, did you change your brake fluid in your S4 to help? If so, how does this work with general road driving?

Obviously not hugely keen to void my Audi warranty by changing things but Brands is closer if I could get away with driving a standard car later in December - hopefully it rains!

Helical

181 posts

94 months

Tuesday 21st November 2017
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As people have said, Bedford is famously hard on brakes, but you can choose to not brake late and hard to mitigate some of that, and still have a good time.
And a change of fluid would be no bad thing. I use RBF 600. You could always replace with OEM fluid at a later date if you were worried about the warranty (its probably a different colour)
You certainly wont feel any reduction in performance poottling around day to day though, it will just be able to cope (better) with the higher temperatures as well

Edited by Helical on Tuesday 21st November 15:54

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Tuesday 21st November 2017
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There is a £199 Silverstone GP on 22/12 - high chance of rain would help brake/tyre cooling. Great track to stretch the S4 legs too.

theboyfold

10,910 posts

225 months

Tuesday 21st November 2017
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The Stiglet said:
Thanks for the feedback guys, some pretty consistent advice re braking.

theboyfold, did you change your brake fluid in your S4 to help? If so, how does this work with general road driving?
I did not use the S4 on track, I've only used my BMW 328i for track days, and yes it does run different brake fluid. As for the difference on the road, it makes no odds. If you upgrade the pads, that can make a difference as some struggle to get up to temperature under regular road use.

The S4 should be ok, just really respect the brakes. The big stops will get things warm in the system and you have to make sure you do a full cool down lap etc etc

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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First off, a lot of modern, supposedly 'everyday sports cars' are essentially too heavy, certainly too heavy for their brakes once on circuit. The Nurburgring is not renowned for being that heavy on brakes, but things like BMW M4s struggle nonetheless. So braking and looking after you r brakes is a definite consideration.

That said, the S4's a nice motor and certainly capable of going quicker than would generally be advisable on the road. Driving any vehicle on track helps give you a better understanding of its handling limits, in a much safer environment. You've chosen a sporty version of an everyday car, so you might as well make the most of its capabilities. It's got to be worth a try?

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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As a Subaru owner, I wouldn't even entertain a track day with a standard road car without at least doing the following:

Braided brake hoses
Genuinely good discs and pads - two piece discs best but good 1 piece ventilated will be better than nothing
Proper brake fluid, Motul etc.

I'd say decent shocks and springs/coilovers but as long as yours aren't knackered you'll still be able to have fun with the above. The thing that will ruin your day is brake fade due to boiled fluid and poor heat dissipation from boggo discs.

Just my opinion using my own experience.

Ahbefive

11,657 posts

171 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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Agreed. When my friends and I started track days it was the fluid boiling, discs warping and some budget tyres that cut everything short. Braided hoses are a no brainer too.

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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The normal order for brake upgrade is fluid and pads first, plus cooling is possible. Most performance cars come with OE braided lines, they're just braided internally and made of a high strength material by Dupont or the likes and then rubber outside. Fitting Goodridge lines for instance won't help temperature obviously, which is by far the main concern here.

TroubledSoul

4,589 posts

193 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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nickfrog said:
The normal order for brake upgrade is fluid and pads first, plus cooling is possible. Most performance cars come with OE braided lines, they're just braided internally and made of a high strength material by Dupont or the likes and then rubber outside. Fitting Goodridge lines for instance won't help temperature obviously, which is by far the main concern here.
Many don't. Subaru for instance, come with normal rubber lines even on the STI. Rubber lines expand whereas braided don't, which is helpful when applying the brakes and the fluid is getting hot (as I'm sure you're aware).

nickfrog

20,872 posts

216 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
quotequote all
TroubledSoul said:
Many don't. Subaru for instance, come with normal rubber lines even on the STI. Rubber lines expand whereas braided don't, which is helpful when applying the brakes and the fluid is getting hot (as I'm sure you're aware).
OE brake lines core aren't actually rubber fortunately but woven aramid. Their are commonly called rubber lines because that's what you see on the outside but they don't balloon. They hardly expand more than SS braided lines. They have very little effect on pedal feel, if any, compared to other factors. When people have their new lines, they have fresh fluid and optimum bleeding, hence the perception of improvement in pedal feel.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&tit...



davebem

746 posts

176 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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theboyfold said:
The S4 should be ok, just really respect the brakes. The big stops will get things warm in the system and you have to make sure you do a full cool down lap etc etc
This, you dont have to take your first track day in your standard car that seriously. As long as you dont get in anyones way and have a cool down lap as suggested, plus its winter. Ive took standard cars on tds and they have been fine, although well maintained ones.

For braided lines, all modern rubber lines are braided internally, it will be a 3 layer line with either fabric or steel braiding in the middle to stop them expanding.

1781cc

575 posts

93 months

Thursday 23rd November 2017
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Don’t go all out modifying things before you go, just respect your and the cars limits, if you approach it as though you are qualifying for the BTCC it’ll be an expensive and short day, but if you drive within your limitations you can still explore the cars handling.

I’ve seen people on track in fully modded M3s that have been slower than stock 350zs, peoples limits are different and others on track should respect that.

Go as you are, feel for the car, perfect your lines, turn in and braking points, be fluid and smooth and you’ll have a good time with a car that can handle it.

Bedford is a great beginner circuit, I started there years ago, full GT, still my favourite circuit. You’ll only kill the brakes if you dont listen to the car.

I’ve seen Astra 1.9td vans, Skoda yetis, Jaguar XJs, Suzuki cappuchinos, BMW 5 series diesel estates, the lot, all stock and all enjoying themselves