First 'Ring visit

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e30m3Mark

Original Poster:

16,205 posts

172 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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I'm planning to visit the 'Ring later this year (for the first time) but being ''Billy No Mates'' I just wondered if there were on groups I could possibly tag along with? I can't be the only person in this position surely?

I am thinking along the lines of driving across on a Friday. Spending Saturday getting my bearings, spanner checking the car etc and doing a lap or 2 under instruction before spending the Sunday putting some laps in on my own. I've done plenty of UK track days but as it's my first time at the 'Ring I want to be safe and not impede other people with more experience, hence the decision to go with an instructor. Would I be better off hiring a car for the first couple of laps or should I just stick with the E30?

Hopefully looking at a weekend in May / June or would weekdays be a better option?

Any help / advice would be much appreciated.

Mark


The1Driver

727 posts

151 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Morning

I'm hoping to head out there (for a second) at some point. I'll keep a close eye on this thread!

Personal I dont see any issues with using your own car to learn the track. Just find yourself a decent instructor. I used RSR for tuition. Though there are plenty of other tutors out too!

Might also be worth jumping into a ring taxi. Just so you know what you're getting yourself into lol.

Dan

Edited by The1Driver on Thursday 8th February 10:42

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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e30m3Mark said:
Would I be better off hiring a car for the first couple of laps or should I just stick with the E30?
I'd be hiring the Apex Sub-7 Up with instruction if I were you. It's a LOT of risk using your own British-insured car on TF, purely because of the 3rd party liability exposure.

The Up is only $80 a lap including fuel, and it's a fun little car all kitted out for track use. They have other cars also.

mwggriffiths

62 posts

150 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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I agree instruction is a good idea when you get there, but I found Gran Turismo / Forza to be a good start before I got there to help with basic orientation on the circuit.

My suggestion is go mid-week if you can.
  • It's cheaper (25 euro per lap, rather than 30 euro Fri/Sat/Sun)
  • It's quieter - much less traffic than the weekends, which are often chaos
  • The cars that are present are generally being driven by locals and they're being driven to a fairly high standard.
When I went for the first time we did some follow-the-leader type laps following my much more experienced friends which was very useful, and that's something I repeated we I took a few friends for their first trips back in August 2017.

I'm at the Ring around Tues 24th April (I'll be there Monday night, Tuesday and Wednesday, maybe longer) for the Circuit Days track day in my E46 325TI and you'd be welcome to hop in for a passenger lap to familiarise yourself before any Tourist Laps if you'd like?

The1Driver

727 posts

151 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Thought the OP was going on a Trackday. And not TF.... I'd avoid TF. It can get too wild.

Go with a Trackday organiser. A group like destination nurburgring.

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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The1Driver said:
Thought the OP was going on a Trackday. And not TF.... I'd avoid TF. It can get too wild.

Go with a Trackday organiser. A group like destination nurburgring.
I don't see track day mentioned, plus he mentions laps on Sunday, laps on Sunday are nearly always TF, I haven't seen a track day on a weekend for a while.

The1Driver

727 posts

151 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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You're right. I just premused he was going for a Trackday event.

Nabu

49 posts

97 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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mwggriffiths said:
I agree instruction is a good idea when you get there, but I found Gran Turismo / Forza to be a good start before I got there to help with basic orientation on the circuit.

My suggestion is go mid-week if you can.
  • It's cheaper (25 euro per lap, rather than 30 euro Fri/Sat/Sun)
  • It's quieter - much less traffic than the weekends, which are often chaos
  • The cars that are present are generally being driven by locals and they're being driven to a fairly high standard.
100% accurate

Also take care of crash downtime.
On weekends there can be so many crashes that you are actually left with less than two hours of driving, which is the weekday TF opening times.

If possible, you should definitely look into visiting on weekdays.

Nabu

49 posts

97 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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The1Driver said:
Thought the OP was going on a Trackday. And not TF.... I'd avoid TF. It can get too wild.

Go with a Trackday organiser. A group like destination nurburgring.
And again 100% agreed.

If Trackday is an option, then take it... blindfolded!

Much better track time, much better level of drivers and track driving education, less crashes, more respect.

RSR Nurburg also organises a trackday on the 3rd of August ( and Spa Francorchamps 6th of August - could work like a combo).

Regards,
Kostas

Edited by Nabu on Thursday 8th February 13:46

e30m3Mark

Original Poster:

16,205 posts

172 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
quotequote all
Just very quick post before I respond properly later, but I have no real preference or knowledge of the different days (TF?) etc, so am happy to be advised on the days to go.

Ultimately I want to use my own car, once I feel confident I know what's what. It's a bit of a long held dream to have my own E30 M3 on the Nordschleife.

The1Driver

727 posts

151 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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TF / Touristfahren.. public sessions. For a small fee you're allowed on track.

I personally found it pretty overwhelming (during my first session). There were so many cars out on track.

Nabu

49 posts

97 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Well, you can visit and drive the Nurburgring Nordschleife under two different setups.

- One is the Tourist Driving Days or as they call it in German "touristenfahrten" (TF).

This means that...

a) The main straight is not open for use. It is cut in the middle so you can exit at the parking.
b) Public road rules apply. i.e. No overtaking on the right and car needs to be 100% road legal.
c) ANY legal road car that can go above 80kmh can enter the track. This is one of the drawbacks.
d) A lot of the cars you see there during weekends are people that are there just to have fun and "drive the Ring one time in the lifetime", so that means that they are not educated around track driving and that for example they dont understand how dangerous it can be to drive in the middle of the track.
e) You can drive an a "per lap" basis. 30€/lap on weekends, 25€/lap during weekdays

- The second option is to join a trackday in which case an organiser has rented the track and you just pay the entry fee to him.

a) You can drive as many laps as you want for the time that the track is open
b) The main straight is now open
c) You car can have any type of modifications even if they are not road legal
d) People driving are more educated and more aware of driving risks and dangers
e) Less accidents due to the above

This is a very basic and short explanation between the two ways you can drive the Ring, as i separate them in mind.

Of course each and every one choses on different basis and makes his own risk assessment. smile

Regards,
Kostas.

doogalman

701 posts

244 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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I am an instructor at the Ring.
E-mail sent to you Mark..

mambofever

3 posts

82 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Agree with other gents here.

Track day in a rented car with an instructor or someone familiar with the ring is the best way to learn it.

I would recommend a suzuki swift from rent4ring. It's what I still hire when I go and is alot of fun and good for learning the lines again.

I would also recommend playing a racing game before hand so you know what corners are up next etc.

As for touristenfahrten. You will be fine with your track experience. Just don't drive more than 8/10ths. People race on the ring but it is more similar to country road in parts with all the hidden bumps.

Wh00sher

1,587 posts

217 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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mambofever said:
Track day in a rented car with an instructor or someone familiar with the ring is the best way to learn it.

I would recommend a suzuki swift from rent4ring. It's what I still hire when I go and is alot of fun and good for learning the lines again.
But the OP wants to drive his own car, which I can completely understand !

If you are driving in TF, I would personally try and get there midweek for an evening session, it`s usually much quieter and you get quality lapping. But there is something to be said for the really busy laps on a weekend when it is rammed. No other experience like it, although possibly a little overwhelming for your first ever lap.

Trackdays are just like in the UK, limited numbers, sign on and briefing but they are also more expensive. Some find the cost too high, I prefer the quality of lapping rather than just £/lap

If I was going for the first ever time to just experience it, I would be very tempted to do TF midweek. If you want to get a fair few laps in then I`d do a trackday.
Aiming for a lot of laps on a weekend with Sat and Sun open 07:00 - 19:15 is probably going to leave you disappointed.

chandler99

105 posts

131 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Me and my mate are going the weekend of the 20th July if you're there then would love a look over the M3 smile

Digga

40,206 posts

282 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Wh00sher said:
If I was going for the first ever time to just experience it, I would be very tempted to do TF midweek. If you want to get a fair few laps in then I`d do a trackday.
I'd agree about mid week. I'm about 50:50 whether, as a first timer, it'd be easier on a quiet TF or a busier but more 'organised' track day. I'm not sure. With TF, even if it's quiet, you kind of need to be vigilant for the random - both fast and slow - and a greater variety of vehicle types.

In either instance, the big thing to check/ensure is your insurance cover. You do not really want to drive here without it IMHO. Most UK car policies will not cover the 'Ring.

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Digga said:
Most UK car policies will not cover the 'Ring.
No UK policy covers TF for 3rd party liability.

This is the elephant-in-the-room for almost everyone, pretend it’s not a problem and hope that nothing happens. Hope that your car doesn’t split a coolant hose and turn the Foxhole or Hatzenbach into a giant slick mess, as happened twice last year.

I’d stick to UK rules track days personally. Not all track days are 3rd party liability free either, btw, UK rules days are.

Alex

9,975 posts

283 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Pdelamare said:
I’d stick to UK rules track days personally. Not all track days are 3rd party liability free either, btw, UK rules days are.
Even then you would still have to pay for Armco damage, as far as I am aware.

Pdelamare

659 posts

127 months

Thursday 8th February 2018
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Alex said:
Even then you would still have to pay for Armco damage, as far as I am aware.
Yes, that’s correct, however that pales into insignificance compared to 3rd party liabilities, especially if injuries are involved. Barrier costs can be insured.