Something better than my 120i for less than £5k
Discussion
Craikeybaby said:
I have a 120i, but haven't taken it out on track because I also have an MR2 Roadster, which I use on track.
It is down on power, but much more involving to drive and accelerates faster due to weighing a lot less.
Most of the cars you have listed are quite heavy cars, why not look at sports cars? You could get a good MR2 or mk3 MX-5 for less than £5k or even a Boxster if you want more power.
Well, there is a common factor between the car you've listed. They are all convertibles and I am not a massive fan of them.It is down on power, but much more involving to drive and accelerates faster due to weighing a lot less.
Most of the cars you have listed are quite heavy cars, why not look at sports cars? You could get a good MR2 or mk3 MX-5 for less than £5k or even a Boxster if you want more power.
Apart from that, MX-5 are underpowered, the main reason I want to change my 120i is because lack of acceleration, and it accelerates faster than stock Mx-5's.
The Boxster is a good option to buy, but probably quite expensive to run if anything goes wrong, my impression is that the DIY community is quite small in the porsche world, and every issue has to be solved with loads of money.
And regarding MR2, I don't know... cannot say anything against it. Just the fact that I simply don't like it. I love the MK2, but they're not that cheap if you want a good unit.
I might be wrong in every single point, but those are the reason why I have not considered those cars.
I swapped an e46 328i for a early z4 3.0. Much much better car. Picked it up for £3k, reused the e46 18" wheels with track tyres, upgraded the brake pads. It feels lighter, sits a lot lower with a lot less roll, sounds great. The 3 series always felt like a family saloon, the z4 feels like a sports car. Plus, can get the roof down which you cant do in a one series!
osdecar said:
Well, there are a couple of them advertised for a bit less than £5k.
I've seen some on boards on youtube, and looks like a fantastic car for track use, and I would not like to completely rule it out.
If I go and take a look at one of those sub-5k examples, what would be the things to pay attention at?
off the top of my head, suspension bushes was one main point. they seize up and expensive to get bushes sorted. Yeah there is powerflex option, but when i did it on the 1 or 2 pairs on the rear because i had to cut the bushes out, it squeaked on every speed bump.I've seen some on boards on youtube, and looks like a fantastic car for track use, and I would not like to completely rule it out.
If I go and take a look at one of those sub-5k examples, what would be the things to pay attention at?
rear arch rust seems to be somewhat typical but i've a feeling that was down to driver issues than a fault with the metalwork prep.
brakes calipers liked to seize up, but nothing a recon'd caliper wouldn't fix. more likely damage to the dust boot on previous work letting water&salt in to the piston.
if it's 5k as starting prices, like any car, then as long as the mechanical stuff is good the rest can be fixed, ignored or removed imo. for a track car it doesn't matter too much about tatty bodywork or rattles. It did seem a few had gearbox shift issues like grinding, but that was fixed with an oil change.
cant think of any other issues off the top of my head. The s2ki forums could be more helpful.
osdecar said:
Craikeybaby said:
I have a 120i, but haven't taken it out on track because I also have an MR2 Roadster, which I use on track.
It is down on power, but much more involving to drive and accelerates faster due to weighing a lot less.
Most of the cars you have listed are quite heavy cars, why not look at sports cars? You could get a good MR2 or mk3 MX-5 for less than £5k or even a Boxster if you want more power.
Well, there is a common factor between the car you've listed. They are all convertibles and I am not a massive fan of them.It is down on power, but much more involving to drive and accelerates faster due to weighing a lot less.
Most of the cars you have listed are quite heavy cars, why not look at sports cars? You could get a good MR2 or mk3 MX-5 for less than £5k or even a Boxster if you want more power.
Apart from that, MX-5 are underpowered, the main reason I want to change my 120i is because lack of acceleration, and it accelerates faster than stock Mx-5's.
The Boxster is a good option to buy, but probably quite expensive to run if anything goes wrong, my impression is that the DIY community is quite small in the porsche world, and every issue has to be solved with loads of money.
And regarding MR2, I don't know... cannot say anything against it. Just the fact that I simply don't like it. I love the MK2, but they're not that cheap if you want a good unit.
I might be wrong in every single point, but those are the reason why I have not considered those cars.
A 2.0l MX-5 has similar power to a 120i, but better acceleration due to weighing less and is way more involving to drive - based on currently having a 120i and previously having a mk3 MX-5. You can easily boost power and get hardtops for them, if you don't like the wind in your hair.
I do agree that the Boxster isn't cheap to maintain though, especially as heavier cars are heavier on consumables - another plus point for lighter cars.
Hi guys,
Again thank you all for your answers!
Honestly, the more I read, the more I rule out the 330i as an option. The Z4 looks like a very good option, but only the worst units fall within my budget. Nonetheless I will keep it in mind, in case there is a good opportunity when I start looking for a replacement, after the summer holidays.
The solid engine and gearbox mounts, could be moved to the 130i
I'm unsure about the braided lines.
And, most likely, racing pads and, tyres will have to go.
Fortunately, there's few upgraded parts on the 120i at the moment. And that's why I'm trying to decide what to do now. Because the next steps would be a full cage and new suspension, and I want to make sure I do that investment on the right car.
Again thank you all for your answers!
brillomaster said:
I swapped an e46 328i for a early z4 3.0. Much much better car. Picked it up for £3k, reused the e46 18" wheels with track tyres, upgraded the brake pads. It feels lighter, sits a lot lower with a lot less roll, sounds great. The 3 series always felt like a family saloon, the z4 feels like a sports car. Plus, can get the roof down which you cant do in a one series!
Hi Mate, thank you very much for your feedback.Honestly, the more I read, the more I rule out the 330i as an option. The Z4 looks like a very good option, but only the worst units fall within my budget. Nonetheless I will keep it in mind, in case there is a good opportunity when I start looking for a replacement, after the summer holidays.
veehexx said:
off the top of my head, suspension bushes was one main point. they seize up and expensive to get bushes sorted. Yeah there is powerflex option, but when i did it on the 1 or 2 pairs on the rear because i had to cut the bushes out, it squeaked on every speed bump.
rear arch rust seems to be somewhat typical but i've a feeling that was down to driver issues than a fault with the metalwork prep.
brakes calipers liked to seize up, but nothing a recon'd caliper wouldn't fix. more likely damage to the dust boot on previous work letting water&salt in to the piston.
if it's 5k as starting prices, like any car, then as long as the mechanical stuff is good the rest can be fixed, ignored or removed imo. for a track car it doesn't matter too much about tatty bodywork or rattles. It did seem a few had gearbox shift issues like grinding, but that was fixed with an oil change.
cant think of any other issues off the top of my head. The s2ki forums could be more helpful.
Thanks mate, I say the same with respect to the Z4, it's out my budget, but I will keep it in mind just in case there's a cheap and good unit out there rear arch rust seems to be somewhat typical but i've a feeling that was down to driver issues than a fault with the metalwork prep.
brakes calipers liked to seize up, but nothing a recon'd caliper wouldn't fix. more likely damage to the dust boot on previous work letting water&salt in to the piston.
if it's 5k as starting prices, like any car, then as long as the mechanical stuff is good the rest can be fixed, ignored or removed imo. for a track car it doesn't matter too much about tatty bodywork or rattles. It did seem a few had gearbox shift issues like grinding, but that was fixed with an oil change.
cant think of any other issues off the top of my head. The s2ki forums could be more helpful.
Tommie38 said:
Are there any parts on the 120 that could move to a 130?
The bucket seat and harness can be moved to any car.The solid engine and gearbox mounts, could be moved to the 130i
I'm unsure about the braided lines.
And, most likely, racing pads and, tyres will have to go.
Fortunately, there's few upgraded parts on the 120i at the moment. And that's why I'm trying to decide what to do now. Because the next steps would be a full cage and new suspension, and I want to make sure I do that investment on the right car.
A 130i is NOT a light car and knocking on 1.5 Tons! Add to this that you are adding more weight on the front axle, compared to a 4 cylinder the response will be different to what you are currently experiencing, Just for reference.
With respect to wanting to go faster, do you feel that you are at the limit of what you currently have? Do you have a Bucket/Harness/Cage/Decent Coilovers/Geo/Sticky tyres and not 15+ year old bushes etc. If yes, then fair enough, if no, then you will always be wanting to compensate with power for faster cars and the fact is there will always be someone faster and/or with a bigger toy/budget.
Given your limited budget, the most bang for buck you will get is to look for a used track prepared car. At a 5K budget you are most likely looking to buy something with close to 10K in prep/development invested in it. Various E36 328's about that gutted and caged sit in the 1150~1250KG wet, with a decent suspension and LSD, you are looking at a potent weapon, that can trouble much more powerful cars in the right hands. I know, I own one
Basically your 5K budget needs to double if you want to start with a road car, it makes no sense to do so given the used options that are out there. Sell the 120i, and used the funds to recondition/further develop what someone else has started! This way you will get the most bang for your buck and most smiles per mile imo.
Humour
With respect to wanting to go faster, do you feel that you are at the limit of what you currently have? Do you have a Bucket/Harness/Cage/Decent Coilovers/Geo/Sticky tyres and not 15+ year old bushes etc. If yes, then fair enough, if no, then you will always be wanting to compensate with power for faster cars and the fact is there will always be someone faster and/or with a bigger toy/budget.
Given your limited budget, the most bang for buck you will get is to look for a used track prepared car. At a 5K budget you are most likely looking to buy something with close to 10K in prep/development invested in it. Various E36 328's about that gutted and caged sit in the 1150~1250KG wet, with a decent suspension and LSD, you are looking at a potent weapon, that can trouble much more powerful cars in the right hands. I know, I own one
Basically your 5K budget needs to double if you want to start with a road car, it makes no sense to do so given the used options that are out there. Sell the 120i, and used the funds to recondition/further develop what someone else has started! This way you will get the most bang for your buck and most smiles per mile imo.
Humour
Humour said:
A 130i is NOT a light car and knocking on 1.5 Tons! Add to this that you are adding more weight on the front axle, compared to a 4 cylinder the response will be different to what you are currently experiencing, Just for reference.
With respect to wanting to go faster, do you feel that you are at the limit of what you currently have? Do you have a Bucket/Harness/Cage/Decent Coilovers/Geo/Sticky tyres and not 15+ year old bushes etc. If yes, then fair enough, if no, then you will always be wanting to compensate with power for faster cars and the fact is there will always be someone faster and/or with a bigger toy/budget.
Given your limited budget, the most bang for buck you will get is to look for a used track prepared car. At a 5K budget you are most likely looking to buy something with close to 10K in prep/development invested in it. Various E36 328's about that gutted and caged sit in the 1150~1250KG wet, with a decent suspension and LSD, you are looking at a potent weapon, that can trouble much more powerful cars in the right hands. I know, I own one
Basically your 5K budget needs to double if you want to start with a road car, it makes no sense to do so given the used options that are out there. Sell the 120i, and used the funds to recondition/further develop what someone else has started! This way you will get the most bang for your buck and most smiles per mile imo.
Humour
Hi Mate,With respect to wanting to go faster, do you feel that you are at the limit of what you currently have? Do you have a Bucket/Harness/Cage/Decent Coilovers/Geo/Sticky tyres and not 15+ year old bushes etc. If yes, then fair enough, if no, then you will always be wanting to compensate with power for faster cars and the fact is there will always be someone faster and/or with a bigger toy/budget.
Given your limited budget, the most bang for buck you will get is to look for a used track prepared car. At a 5K budget you are most likely looking to buy something with close to 10K in prep/development invested in it. Various E36 328's about that gutted and caged sit in the 1150~1250KG wet, with a decent suspension and LSD, you are looking at a potent weapon, that can trouble much more powerful cars in the right hands. I know, I own one
Basically your 5K budget needs to double if you want to start with a road car, it makes no sense to do so given the used options that are out there. Sell the 120i, and used the funds to recondition/further develop what someone else has started! This way you will get the most bang for your buck and most smiles per mile imo.
Humour
Thank you very much for your answer. Good point about the weight in the 130i.
Regarding my current car and the limits, I know for a fact I can go much faster on the 120i. But it's not lap times what I'm after, I just want more power, 170bhp feels so underpowered in corner exit that it almost ruins the whole experience.
Regarding the budget, I totally agree with you: an already prepared car it's going to be a much more sensible investment. However, for me, most of the fun is in the garage, rather than on track. If I buy something done, it will feel like cheating, like paying for someone else's work, instead of achieving the goal with my own effort. It just does not suit me.
£5k is just my budget for purchasing the car, and not for the whole project. I know that I will have to put an additional £2-3k at least to have something half-decent.
Honestly, I almost have my mind made. I'm quite sure I will go for the 350Z, although I will test drive a 130i and an s2000 before buying anything.
Still open to some other models that I might have missed.
Thank you all for your feedback!
I get where you are coming from, but perhaps you are omitting an important point or two..
If you buy a prepped car you are on average getting double the value of what you spend. That gives you two major advantages, 1) more money for going on track days, 2) more time being out there having fun.
Just because you buy a prepped car doesnt mean you wont be working on it to maintain it and/or evolve it as you go. Trust me track cars demand constant maintenance, so dont worry about not being involved and learning what you have under you. What it does mean is accellerated way to get to track.
For some reference, a half decent multipoint cage (weld in) is 1000+, welding it is minimum 1500++ and plis VAT, painting the cage 500-1000. Decent seats, harnesses (going 2 up) is easily another 1000. Thats before we even consider the car!!! See where your budget is going? Take advice from someone who has done it the hard way, your Man maths is way out on this. Of course you can go cheaper on everything, but it is still going to be over half of the numbers above, unless you can weld and paint and spanner, etc.
If you can get a car with those bits done and not a rotten shell, the rest is all doable at your leasure so you get the best of both worlds.
There are a couple of e36 prepped cars for sale at the moment on PH/eBay. On a budget 1300kg wet with driver, no budget, can go as light as 1000kg. There is a path to putting other BMW engines in the shell, most notably e46 M3 (S54), as I can guarantee you will get used to the power quockly enough and be saying that 220-240hp of a turn is too slow lol. The e36 is a well catered for platform and I can tell you from experience although on the heavy side it is easy to hustle and punches well above its weight.
Btw if I had that advice when I was in your position and with hindsight I would not have started from scratch!
Take from it what you will!
P.S. On the comment about power, BMW road cars all have long gearing so will feel laboured when accelerating. Two ways to address this 1) loose weight, as much as feasibly possible. 2) increase final drive. Doing both is even better and will provide much increased accelleration without touching engine power!
If you buy a prepped car you are on average getting double the value of what you spend. That gives you two major advantages, 1) more money for going on track days, 2) more time being out there having fun.
Just because you buy a prepped car doesnt mean you wont be working on it to maintain it and/or evolve it as you go. Trust me track cars demand constant maintenance, so dont worry about not being involved and learning what you have under you. What it does mean is accellerated way to get to track.
For some reference, a half decent multipoint cage (weld in) is 1000+, welding it is minimum 1500++ and plis VAT, painting the cage 500-1000. Decent seats, harnesses (going 2 up) is easily another 1000. Thats before we even consider the car!!! See where your budget is going? Take advice from someone who has done it the hard way, your Man maths is way out on this. Of course you can go cheaper on everything, but it is still going to be over half of the numbers above, unless you can weld and paint and spanner, etc.
If you can get a car with those bits done and not a rotten shell, the rest is all doable at your leasure so you get the best of both worlds.
There are a couple of e36 prepped cars for sale at the moment on PH/eBay. On a budget 1300kg wet with driver, no budget, can go as light as 1000kg. There is a path to putting other BMW engines in the shell, most notably e46 M3 (S54), as I can guarantee you will get used to the power quockly enough and be saying that 220-240hp of a turn is too slow lol. The e36 is a well catered for platform and I can tell you from experience although on the heavy side it is easy to hustle and punches well above its weight.
Btw if I had that advice when I was in your position and with hindsight I would not have started from scratch!
Take from it what you will!
P.S. On the comment about power, BMW road cars all have long gearing so will feel laboured when accelerating. Two ways to address this 1) loose weight, as much as feasibly possible. 2) increase final drive. Doing both is even better and will provide much increased accelleration without touching engine power!
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 8th August 12:35
Edited by Humour on Wednesday 8th August 12:39
Here is a good example.of what Im talking about. The cost of all the components I can believe adds up to 10K....and probably 7 years to build lol That is pretty gooe value for money and ready to go straight out there.
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport...
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport...
I was in a similar position to you but more towards the cost aspects.
I've owned Impreza's for the last 15 years and used them for fun and trackdays with my last one being the nutter b
d 2006 Spec C version for 8 years (amazing bit of kit!), I just fancied a change and ended up swapping it with a friend for an E46 M3.
I didn't realise at the time how much it would cost to turn it into a 50/50 road/trackday toy until I priced just a decent brake setup up for around £4k before I even thought about wheels, tyres, anti-rollbars, coilovers etc.... and then I'd be scared of breaking it so probably wouldn't drive it particularly hard.
I decided to leave the M3 as a garage queen and find a cheap fun RWD car to play with, after looking into S2000's (too expensive for a good one), Z4's (brake callipers, LSD, suspension, tyres - not much cheaper than the M3), 328i (I absolutely detest rust!) and a few others, I kept coming back to the Mk3 MX-5, they need more power, suspension and tyres which due to the lack of weight all come in fairly cheap for decent parts.
After searching the interweb for months I came across a 2007 Mk3 Mx-5 with 22k miles, Miester R coilovers, Whiteline anti-roll bars, adjustable drop links, full exhaust system including stainless manifold (standard manifold robs loads of power), and......a BBR Cosworth supercharger kit! all for £6k!
I haven't had as much fun in a car for years, it's absolutely brilliant! The only thing it needs is mapping as the previous owner has modified it further than BBR did. It's a proper sleeper as it looks standard, I get loads of surprised faces when it flies past.
I was looking for a car I could modify myself but instead of buying parts and fitting over time I ended up basically paying for a car with all the bits fitted already, there's a BBR receipt in the paper work for £5k just for the supercharger kit!
Keep your eyes peeled as decent cars do come up form time to time!
43431113471_53e41217b8_o by ROSS HALSEY, on Flickr
I've owned Impreza's for the last 15 years and used them for fun and trackdays with my last one being the nutter b
d 2006 Spec C version for 8 years (amazing bit of kit!), I just fancied a change and ended up swapping it with a friend for an E46 M3.I didn't realise at the time how much it would cost to turn it into a 50/50 road/trackday toy until I priced just a decent brake setup up for around £4k before I even thought about wheels, tyres, anti-rollbars, coilovers etc.... and then I'd be scared of breaking it so probably wouldn't drive it particularly hard.
I decided to leave the M3 as a garage queen and find a cheap fun RWD car to play with, after looking into S2000's (too expensive for a good one), Z4's (brake callipers, LSD, suspension, tyres - not much cheaper than the M3), 328i (I absolutely detest rust!) and a few others, I kept coming back to the Mk3 MX-5, they need more power, suspension and tyres which due to the lack of weight all come in fairly cheap for decent parts.
After searching the interweb for months I came across a 2007 Mk3 Mx-5 with 22k miles, Miester R coilovers, Whiteline anti-roll bars, adjustable drop links, full exhaust system including stainless manifold (standard manifold robs loads of power), and......a BBR Cosworth supercharger kit! all for £6k!
I haven't had as much fun in a car for years, it's absolutely brilliant! The only thing it needs is mapping as the previous owner has modified it further than BBR did. It's a proper sleeper as it looks standard, I get loads of surprised faces when it flies past.
I was looking for a car I could modify myself but instead of buying parts and fitting over time I ended up basically paying for a car with all the bits fitted already, there's a BBR receipt in the paper work for £5k just for the supercharger kit!
Keep your eyes peeled as decent cars do come up form time to time!
43431113471_53e41217b8_o by ROSS HALSEY, on FlickrEdited by kin quick on Thursday 9th August 01:14
kin quick said:
i decided to leave the M3 as a garage queen and find a cheap fun RWD car to play with, after looking into S2000's (too expensive for a good one), Z4's (brake callipers, LSD, suspension, tyres - not much cheaper than the M3), 328i (I absolutely detest rust!) and a few others, I kept coming back to the Mk3 MX5....
Fine choice and one of my favourites but If you do detest rust, you ought to look under the NC. They are no better protectrd from factory than NA/NB and apparrntly ND's are even worse. BMW's at over 20yrs of age cant be compated with a 10-12yrd old NC imo.Humour said:
Fine choice and one of my favourites but If you do detest rust, you ought to look under the NC. They are no better protectrd from factory than NA/NB and apparrntly ND's are even worse. BMW's at over 20yrs of age cant be compated with a 10-12yrd old NC imo.
I've seen a few NC's already being scrapped due to rust, I've been pretty lucky with this car, it's been garage most of it's life and is really clean underneath, I'll definitely get it under sealed at some point soon though.I bought a 130i for just over 3k 8 months ago, took it to it's first track day totally standard a couple of weeks back then pretty much immediately sold it.............and bought another 130i .....but with all the track mods already done (M3 steering rack, subframes, LSD, B12 suspension, Track wheels/tyres and m135i brakes) ..........I am going back to the track next week so i can report back on the difference but the from what found on the first track day was that there is a good track car in there waiting to come out!
The lack of LSD and sub par brakes are a pain but the general balance and stability of the car was good. It has enough power to be fun and it just sounds glorious and the engines are reliable and parts are not crazy money.
They can be picked up for about 3k with high miles but i don't think that is a worry with the n52 engine (for now before prices rise) and then 2k of mods can get you, LSD, suspension, M3 steering rack lower arms etc (this is an amazing mod) and then uprated pads and disks to start with and i think your have a great fun and great sounding track car.
I have had mx5's (NA and supercharged) and westfield/ caterhams previously and i was going to go down the MK3 NC route but after seeing the underneath of a few i don't want to be dealing with rust issues again and they also don't sound a patch on a 130i!
for me a 350z couldn't be an option as i need it to be 5 seats/ daily as well but i did speak to a guy once at a track day in one who had to come off and circle the car park 5 times to get his brakes back quite alot!
Cheers Paul
The lack of LSD and sub par brakes are a pain but the general balance and stability of the car was good. It has enough power to be fun and it just sounds glorious and the engines are reliable and parts are not crazy money.
They can be picked up for about 3k with high miles but i don't think that is a worry with the n52 engine (for now before prices rise) and then 2k of mods can get you, LSD, suspension, M3 steering rack lower arms etc (this is an amazing mod) and then uprated pads and disks to start with and i think your have a great fun and great sounding track car.
I have had mx5's (NA and supercharged) and westfield/ caterhams previously and i was going to go down the MK3 NC route but after seeing the underneath of a few i don't want to be dealing with rust issues again and they also don't sound a patch on a 130i!
for me a 350z couldn't be an option as i need it to be 5 seats/ daily as well but i did speak to a guy once at a track day in one who had to come off and circle the car park 5 times to get his brakes back quite alot!
Cheers Paul
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