BMW M140i - Track Setup and Cost
Discussion
Scribble BM said:
Thanks Mrc986.
If he was at Outlon for BMWCarclub I met him and he kindly took me out in his AC Schnitzer M135i!
He is running Ferodo DS2500 I think and said they were fine for 20minute stints combined with Yokohama tyres which he has had for over 10k miles ??.
I am hoping for to attend the BMWCC day at anglesey yes
Yes, it sounds like you've been in my friends car If he was at Outlon for BMWCarclub I met him and he kindly took me out in his AC Schnitzer M135i!
He is running Ferodo DS2500 I think and said they were fine for 20minute stints combined with Yokohama tyres which he has had for over 10k miles ??.
I am hoping for to attend the BMWCC day at anglesey yes
I have to say that on a normal track day, I tend to only do 20 minute sessions as I'm conscious of hammering my car too hard plus & if I stay out longer I do a slower lap midway through to cool the brakes down.. Everyone has their own experiences/views on track biased pads and it depends what sort of circuits you're driving as to the speeds you'll achieve /braking forces you'll generate. From my experience the DS2500s I've run have been ok, though I've only done one full F1 circuit 
Wouldn't bother doing anything to the car for your first track day besides checking everything over.
In all likelihood it'll be cold and/or wet and you won't see the advantage from better pads and tyres whilst you should be learning the car on the limit.
That said, beginners can often be a lot more punishing on brakes than experienced drivers, scrubbing off way more speed than necessary for each corner can build up a lot more heat. Do 15 minute stints and pay attention to what the car is telling you, do a cool down lap and enjoy yourself.
In all likelihood it'll be cold and/or wet and you won't see the advantage from better pads and tyres whilst you should be learning the car on the limit.
That said, beginners can often be a lot more punishing on brakes than experienced drivers, scrubbing off way more speed than necessary for each corner can build up a lot more heat. Do 15 minute stints and pay attention to what the car is telling you, do a cool down lap and enjoy yourself.
First track day? Completely standard is fine, just do short stints.
If you get some confidence and / or stay out too long, you can change to different pads and a better fluid for the next time around.
Forgive me asking, but is the car owned outright? By that I mean, does it have to go back after a set period? Reason why I ask is pads and fluid are easily reversible.
If you get some confidence and / or stay out too long, you can change to different pads and a better fluid for the next time around.
Forgive me asking, but is the car owned outright? By that I mean, does it have to go back after a set period? Reason why I ask is pads and fluid are easily reversible.
Cheers for the advice. I may leave the brakes but I imagine I may need new ones after the track day anyway...
This will be my second track day, the first was in a track prepped mk1 mx5 that my friend races.
The day at Anglesey that I am attending is a BMW Car Club one and I will have tuition for the whole morning. I just hope it’s not too wet!
The car is on finance so I am not making any permanent mods and will be taking out track day insurance
This will be my second track day, the first was in a track prepped mk1 mx5 that my friend races.
The day at Anglesey that I am attending is a BMW Car Club one and I will have tuition for the whole morning. I just hope it’s not too wet!
The car is on finance so I am not making any permanent mods and will be taking out track day insurance
I wouldn't worry too much, especially if you're having tuition & its most likely to be wet.
Just keep an eye on brake fluid level, pad thickness, oil level & tyre wear.
PSS should be fine - might be worth asking around the pits what pressures people are running, as a bit of guidance.
Take a decent pressure gauge with you and a pump
Most importantly, have fun !
Insurance is a bonus - I use Mannings as they cover me for all UK tracks, and with an agreed car value (991 GT3)
Just keep an eye on brake fluid level, pad thickness, oil level & tyre wear.
PSS should be fine - might be worth asking around the pits what pressures people are running, as a bit of guidance.
Take a decent pressure gauge with you and a pump
Most importantly, have fun !
Insurance is a bonus - I use Mannings as they cover me for all UK tracks, and with an agreed car value (991 GT3)
For track days my advice is always just relax build experience and as you build experience evolve you and the car.
As this is your second track day I would not worry about the car, if the brakes get hot do shorter stints. As you build experience you will find the weak spots and build from there. On brake pads you will likely need to experiment as everyone has an opinion. What works will very much depend on you, some of the popular recommendations on here do not work for me, DS2500s lasted one track day with ferocious wear indicating I was running them too hot but work well for others.
I will repeat relax, have fun, don't over think it, watch your mirrors to let others past and listen to your instructor.
As this is your second track day I would not worry about the car, if the brakes get hot do shorter stints. As you build experience you will find the weak spots and build from there. On brake pads you will likely need to experiment as everyone has an opinion. What works will very much depend on you, some of the popular recommendations on here do not work for me, DS2500s lasted one track day with ferocious wear indicating I was running them too hot but work well for others.
I will repeat relax, have fun, don't over think it, watch your mirrors to let others past and listen to your instructor.
Stock M140 at Cadwell (a circuit I know very well) 6-20 minute sessions. Fabulous track car.
Brakes started to lack feel after the second session but not lost through the rest of the day, if I'm honest, I was driving to a pedal that didn't feel 100%.
Very quick, very competent in standard trim. Your braking tweaks are in line with what I intend to do before I go back on track.
Mintex 1166 and SRF.
Need some wheels and tyres too, but happy to run with standard for one more outing.
Brakes started to lack feel after the second session but not lost through the rest of the day, if I'm honest, I was driving to a pedal that didn't feel 100%.
Very quick, very competent in standard trim. Your braking tweaks are in line with what I intend to do before I go back on track.
Mintex 1166 and SRF.
Need some wheels and tyres too, but happy to run with standard for one more outing.
I have a m135i which is basically the same.
I track it.
I run Pagid RS29 front pads, DS2500 rear.
Work well
You will warp discs, they don't handle heat very well.
So you will need to upgrade to the F3X M Performance caliper to run larger discs.
I have bought Milway camber plates and Bilstein B14 coilovers, I had B16 on my last car and never adjusted them so not worth the extra.
M3 suspension arms need some custom made washers to work properly for the other strut, otherwise the wheel sits too far forward in the arch. Not worth it so I went for the camber plates.
I have also got an M Performance LSD
Use OEM fluid, just fresh every year is fine.
I track it.
I run Pagid RS29 front pads, DS2500 rear.
Work well
You will warp discs, they don't handle heat very well.
So you will need to upgrade to the F3X M Performance caliper to run larger discs.
I have bought Milway camber plates and Bilstein B14 coilovers, I had B16 on my last car and never adjusted them so not worth the extra.
M3 suspension arms need some custom made washers to work properly for the other strut, otherwise the wheel sits too far forward in the arch. Not worth it so I went for the camber plates.
I have also got an M Performance LSD
Use OEM fluid, just fresh every year is fine.
andyhatton said:
I've never (yet) warped the discs on mine. But then I probably don't drive it as hard as many do, it's just a bit of 8/10 ths fun for me.
Is that on track? They are fine on the road.When they get hot , a bit of vibration starts!
I've yet to see if the new discs I have (mtec) are any better . Got Snetterton on the 29th Jan so will find out then I guess
Fed up of spending £250 on new genuine discs for them to be crap lol
xjay1337 said:
andyhatton said:
I've never (yet) warped the discs on mine. But then I probably don't drive it as hard as many do, it's just a bit of 8/10 ths fun for me.
Is that on track? They are fine on the road.When they get hot , a bit of vibration starts!
Totally fine once allowed to cool down.
Thanks for all the feedback so far.
From what I’ve read I think I’ll be going with the Ferrodo brake fluid ( I believe I’ll need 1.5L to bleed the brakes?) and DS2500 front pads from ML Performance.
I’ll be bleeding the brakes fully and just putting the pads in for the track day and then taking the back out to save them for future days. Hopefully the change in pad compound doesn’t have too much of a detrimental effect on the disc.
If anyone has anything they want me find out from tracking an M140 let me know! (Pad wear, tyre wear, etc)
From what I’ve read I think I’ll be going with the Ferrodo brake fluid ( I believe I’ll need 1.5L to bleed the brakes?) and DS2500 front pads from ML Performance.
I’ll be bleeding the brakes fully and just putting the pads in for the track day and then taking the back out to save them for future days. Hopefully the change in pad compound doesn’t have too much of a detrimental effect on the disc.
If anyone has anything they want me find out from tracking an M140 let me know! (Pad wear, tyre wear, etc)
I would just use normal OEM fluid -
And changing pads is a bit of ballache as they end up contoured to the disc.
DS2500 are not that expensive nor that aggressive to warrant changing out after each trackday IMO.
You'll also generally find cheaper suppliers than ML Performance
Speak to AKS Tuning in Bedford, they will match or beat any offer on pads. That's where I get my parts from.
And changing pads is a bit of ballache as they end up contoured to the disc.
DS2500 are not that expensive nor that aggressive to warrant changing out after each trackday IMO.
You'll also generally find cheaper suppliers than ML Performance
Speak to AKS Tuning in Bedford, they will match or beat any offer on pads. That's where I get my parts from.
I completed 16 track days in an E46 M3 (mostly BMWCC ones). The weight and power are similar to an M140, so my experience may be relevant and echoes much of what has already been said.
You could just run the car without making any changes but I think it would be worth changing the brake pads. The pads got incredibly hot, even on 15-20 minute stints, despite not being particularly guilty of extending the braking zone (a prime cause of overheating). I used DS2500 at the front (with an AP Racing BBK) and EBC yellow stuff at the rear (with standard discs) and DoT 5.1 brake fluid. Vibration would develop during the day, felt through both pedal and steering wheel. This was not disc warping but pad material adhering to the discs. After about 500 miles of normal road use the deposits wear-off and the vibrations fade away. The pads would only last 4 track days.
I would recommend being disciplined about doing at least a full cooling down lap with minimal braking and at low revs. Cooling the discs reduces the risk of excessive heat transfer from the discs to other components in the pits and low revs cool the engine. Don’t use the hand brake in the pits.
I started off using Michelin PS2’s. Fronts would last 5 track days and rears 10 days, with all the wear on the shoulders. I switched to PSS’s and found the shoulders a little more durable. I think they are the best compromise for road use with occasional track use. They are also better in the wet than any track day tire. I don’t tend to take too much air out of the tyres as the cold pressures specified by the manufacturers take into account a certain amount of heating that develops on, say, a long motorway run but I am probably in the minority on that debate.
A good decision on the tuition BTW – it always adds to the enjoyment. Having insurance also helps you to enjoy the day. I use Manning for road insurance as they cover club track days within the premium.
I won’t be at Anglesey this year but as you’ve already attended a BMW CC day you’ll know there is a friendly atmosphere and plenty of good advice available from people much more knowledgeable than me. Enjoy!
You could just run the car without making any changes but I think it would be worth changing the brake pads. The pads got incredibly hot, even on 15-20 minute stints, despite not being particularly guilty of extending the braking zone (a prime cause of overheating). I used DS2500 at the front (with an AP Racing BBK) and EBC yellow stuff at the rear (with standard discs) and DoT 5.1 brake fluid. Vibration would develop during the day, felt through both pedal and steering wheel. This was not disc warping but pad material adhering to the discs. After about 500 miles of normal road use the deposits wear-off and the vibrations fade away. The pads would only last 4 track days.
I would recommend being disciplined about doing at least a full cooling down lap with minimal braking and at low revs. Cooling the discs reduces the risk of excessive heat transfer from the discs to other components in the pits and low revs cool the engine. Don’t use the hand brake in the pits.
I started off using Michelin PS2’s. Fronts would last 5 track days and rears 10 days, with all the wear on the shoulders. I switched to PSS’s and found the shoulders a little more durable. I think they are the best compromise for road use with occasional track use. They are also better in the wet than any track day tire. I don’t tend to take too much air out of the tyres as the cold pressures specified by the manufacturers take into account a certain amount of heating that develops on, say, a long motorway run but I am probably in the minority on that debate.
A good decision on the tuition BTW – it always adds to the enjoyment. Having insurance also helps you to enjoy the day. I use Manning for road insurance as they cover club track days within the premium.
I won’t be at Anglesey this year but as you’ve already attended a BMW CC day you’ll know there is a friendly atmosphere and plenty of good advice available from people much more knowledgeable than me. Enjoy!
Ok so following further discussion I have got Comma 5.1 fluid to fully bleed the brakes as it’s so cheap to do and will definitely make a difference.
I know this is going to be pretty hard on pads, so I’m probably going to get some M4 Pads from Stuart Murray.
Question is.... my current pads (stock) have circa 8mm left. If I swap these out, can I take out the part worn wear sensor as well? Then put the m4 pads in for the track day and leave them until they wear out before putting the stock pads and part worn wear sensor back in.
I know this is going to be pretty hard on pads, so I’m probably going to get some M4 Pads from Stuart Murray.
Question is.... my current pads (stock) have circa 8mm left. If I swap these out, can I take out the part worn wear sensor as well? Then put the m4 pads in for the track day and leave them until they wear out before putting the stock pads and part worn wear sensor back in.
My friend has a tuned M135i ACS1 (previously mentioned). When I last visited he was keen to point out his new front brake discs he's fitting.... they are apparently M2 discs & I think he's sticking with Ferodo DS2500 pads again. He'll hopefully be at Anglesey with the BMWCC with me & I'm pretty sure he's fitting some Michelin PS tyres as an all rounder having run Yoko ADO8rs before.
Scribble BM said:
Ok so following further discussion I have got Comma 5.1 fluid to fully bleed the brakes as it’s so cheap to do and will definitely make a difference.
I know this is going to be pretty hard on pads, so I’m probably going to get some M4 Pads from Stuart Murray.
Question is.... my current pads (stock) have circa 8mm left. If I swap these out, can I take out the part worn wear sensor as well? Then put the m4 pads in for the track day and leave them until they wear out before putting the stock pads and part worn wear sensor back in.
M4 pads are a waste of time............... and you do not need to faff around swapping pads out for track and road..I know this is going to be pretty hard on pads, so I’m probably going to get some M4 Pads from Stuart Murray.
Question is.... my current pads (stock) have circa 8mm left. If I swap these out, can I take out the part worn wear sensor as well? Then put the m4 pads in for the track day and leave them until they wear out before putting the stock pads and part worn wear sensor back in.
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