Second track car dilemma!! Tearing my hair out.

[Partyvan]

Hi all

Dilemma!

My main track car is a big spec Honda CRX, with a 270bhp N/A K20a engine. Very quick. But also prone to rust at the sight of a cloud on the horizon. So it'll never see a wet track, plus it's also constantly being tinkered with, upgraded and so on.

So, I bought a second track car for those cheap winter trackdays. Something that should always be ready to use and not off the road for extended periods. Something that's also Nurburgring TF friendly, unlike the CRX.

It's a Mk4 Golf 2.8 V6 4motion.



Now... I know Mk4's are lardy pieces of crap... but thanks to some coilovers, decent tyres, 6 pot BBK and a hefty weight reduction... it's actually great on a wet track. Round a soaking Cadwell / Oulton I was overtaking everything in sight including several Caterfields. Only a race prepped Seat passed me all day. The Haldex system gives it so much stability in the wet. So all was well. It's also so cheap to fix if I crash it. And fairly reliable and safe.

My problem is - when the track is dry, or dries out... it's lack of straightline speed makes it dull and frustrating. I was utterly bored doing Donnington in it in the dry, to the point of leaving early and going home. I couldn't overtake anything on the straights whatsoever.

So what do I do?

Option 1) Golf R32 engine conversion, with or without some bolt on mods. 240-280bhp.

Option 2) I have a 225bhp convertible Audi TT I can't bloody give away. Put it's 1.8t BAM engine in the Golf.

Option 3) Just buy a tintop Audi TT 225bhp and put the Golf's coilovers/brakes/wheels on it. Added bonus of a lighter car with better steering rack / geometry / roll bars etc and I'm not messing about swapping engines. This makes option 2 redundant!

Option 4) Sell all this VAG tat and get a car that's actually good for similar money, like say an E46 330ci. I love the E46, but fear it'll pale in comparison to the M3 I used to track.

I suspect option 4 will be the PH favourite here, but is there any mileage in my VAG ideas?

Remember... must be reliable, RWD or 4WD, good in the wet, £3k max budget and not an MX5 or kit car / open wheeler

[48k]

Partyvan said:

Hi all

Dilemma!

My main track car is a big spec Honda CRX, with a 270bhp N/A K20a engine. Very quick. But also prone to rust at the sight of a cloud on the horizon. So it'll never see a wet track, plus it's also constantly being tinkered with, upgraded and so on.

So, I bought a second track car for those cheap winter trackdays. Something that should always be ready to use and not off the road for extended periods. Something that's also Nurburgring TF friendly, unlike the CRX.

It's a Mk4 Golf 2.8 V6 4motion.



Now... I know Mk4's are lardy pieces of crap... but thanks to some coilovers, decent tyres, 6 pot BBK and a hefty weight reduction... it's actually great on a wet track. Round a soaking Cadwell / Oulton I was overtaking everything in sight including several Caterfields. Only a race prepped Seat passed me all day. The Haldex system gives it so much stability in the wet. So all was well. It's also so cheap to fix if I crash it. And fairly reliable and safe.

My problem is - when the track is dry, or dries out... it's lack of straightline speed makes it dull and frustrating. I was utterly bored doing Donnington in it in the dry, to the point of leaving early and going home. I couldn't overtake anything on the straights whatsoever.

So what do I do?

Option 1) Golf R32 engine conversion, with or without some bolt on mods. 240-280bhp.

Option 2) I have a 225bhp convertible Audi TT I can't bloody give away. Put it's 1.8t BAM engine in the Golf.

Option 3) Just buy a tintop Audi TT 225bhp and put the Golf's coilovers/brakes/wheels on it. Added bonus of a lighter car with better steering rack / geometry / roll bars etc and I'm not messing about swapping engines. This makes option 2 redundant!

Option 4) Sell all this VAG tat and get a car that's actually good for similar money, like say an E46 330ci. I love the E46, but fear it'll pale in comparison to the M3 I used to track.

I suspect option 4 will be the PH favourite here, but is there any mileage in my VAG ideas?

Remember... must be reliable, RWD or 4WD, good in the wet, £3k max budget and not an MX5 or kit car / open wheeler

Wait...you considered going home from a trackday because you didn't overtake anything???

[aka_kerrly]

48k said:

Wait...you considered going home from a trackday because you didn't overtake anything???

I also find that baffling.. it's a track day no one wins a prize for fastest speed in a straight line;)

I suspect some of the power requirement depends on which tracks you visit & can appreciate that the long gears on a 2.8 4MO will not really suit most short UK tracks. - I suspect the Final Drive from a 2.3 VR5 gearbox can be swapped in if you want shorter gears. Its a popular swap now for.

Since you already have some nice upgrades on the 4mo I'd sell the TT and use the money toward a supercharger on the 2.8 VR lump taking it to circa 300hp - waaaaaaaaaaay more entertaining than a 20vt swap.

Also consider a Haldex controller if you want to manipulate the AWD to be more rear biased.

[VonSenger]

Unfortunately for you OP, your statement about overtaking will dominate this thread. PH is now full of righteous virtue signalling angels. They all know what you mean, overtaking adds an element of excitement, which they know is what you're trying to get at.

I'd edit it if you want to avoid the useless comments and help focus your post.

I'd go TT route.

[Partyvan]

What I mean is that in the dry, it's slower than 60-70% of cars on track. I prefer being quicker than 60-70% of cars. Progress through traffic is what makes it interesting.

Nothing more galling than catching someone through a series of bends, then losing it all on the straights.

[Partyvan]

aka_kerrly said:

I also find that baffling.. it's a track day no one wins a prize for fastest speed in a straight line;)

I suspect some of the power requirement depends on which tracks you visit & can appreciate that the long gears on a 2.8 4MO will not really suit most short UK tracks. - I suspect the Final Drive from a 2.3 VR5 gearbox can be swapped in if you want shorter gears. Its a popular swap now for.

Since you already have some nice upgrades on the 4mo I'd sell the TT and use the money toward a supercharger on the 2.8 VR lump taking it to circa 300hp - waaaaaaaaaaay more entertaining than a 20vt swap.

Also consider a Haldex controller if you want to manipulate the AWD to be more rear biased.

Would a final drive in the gearbox work on it's own? Or would I need a rear diff ratio to match?

[GravelBen]

Partyvan said:

Nothing more galling than catching someone through a series of bends, then losing it all on the straights.

Really? Sure it can be frustrating when slower drivers in faster cars won't let you past, but I'd find it more galling to be a straight-line cowboy who catches people on the straights but can't keep up in the bends.

If you want the different excitement of overtaking and competing then go racing, thats not what trackdays are about.

[VonSenger]

GravelBen said:

Partyvan said:

Nothing more galling than catching someone through a series of bends, then losing it all on the straights.

Really? Sure it can be frustrating when slower drivers in faster cars won't let you past, but I'd find it more galling to be a straight-line cowboy who catches people on the straights but can't keep up in the bends.

If you want the different excitement of overtaking and competing then go racing, thats not what trackdays are about.

As sure as night follows day. It's all ph will cling on to now, an oppo to finger wag and lecture.

[anonymous-user]

There must be lots of info on a turbo for the v6. Wouldn’t that be less chewy than swapping engines?

If not, r32 (or r36) conversion

[Greg the Fish]

worried about rust on the Honda..................considers an old 3 series................wtf?

[aka_kerrly]

Partyvan said:

Would a final drive in the gearbox work on it's own? Or would I need a rear diff ratio to match?

floated the idea past a mate an he reminded me that the R32 gearbox has a shorter final drive with the same ratios and would be a less involved swap. Ive never looked into different rear ratios only fitting a LSD!

It does work as I know a few FWD guys running R32 engines with the whole V5 gearbox and others with a VR6 box with V5 internals.

[Partyvan]

Thornaby said:

There must be lots of info on a turbo for the v6. Wouldn’t that be less chewy than swapping engines?

If not, r32 (or r36) conversion

Yes I like the idea of a turbo.

Cast iron manifold £120
Mid range turbo £600
Decompression plate £40
New timing chain kit £???
Mapped standard ECU £200?
Oil lines/FMIC/sundries etc £200
Custom downpipe £100

I bet it's more like £2k when you've bought everything.

Makes sense in a way as the car / engine are only on 74k

Edited by Partyvan on Monday 14th January 09:53

[Partyvan]

Greg the Fish said:

worried about rust on the Honda..................considers an old 3 series................wtf?

CRX rust is fatal though. They are horrendous.

[Partyvan]

GravelBen said:

Really? Sure it can be frustrating when slower drivers in faster cars won't let you past, but I'd find it more galling to be a straight-line cowboy who catches people on the straights but can't keep up in the bends.

If you want the different excitement of overtaking and competing then go racing, thats not what trackdays are about.

I'm not trying to argue but plenty of people race on trackdays, or at least have a play for a few laps. Hardly the crime of the century.

[AlmostUseful]

I know I shouldn’t be, but I’m surprised to see people jumping straight on the overtaking element, I thought it was a reasonable example of explaining lack of straight line speed.

I think you should turbo or SC the 4 motion, it’ll sound better than the 4 pot Audi and gives you something to do when you’re not tracking it because you’ll always be tinkering with it.

[Kewy]

I have no idea what the best solution to your dilemma is…

But lets see some pictures of the CRX then

[Partyvan]

Almostuseful - I do love the 6 pot sound. It's a great engine. Would be even better turbo'd

Kewy said:

I have no idea what the best solution to your dilemma is…

But lets see some pictures of the CRX then

There you go Sir
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Blanchimont]

Why not rust proof the CRX? It would probably be cheaper than having a 2nd track car?

[Glasgowrob]

turbo conversion should see you well over 350bhp on a 4mo,

r32 swap is a piece of cake same engine more or less so short motor for short motor swap.

[Tankrizzo]

Supercharge the Golf, you've got the basis of a very good track car there anyway so just add power. It's not like you have to worry if the conversion takes time.