Should race cars be banned from attending track days?

Should race cars be banned from attending track days?

Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?

Total Members Polled: 300

yes: 45%
no: 55%
Author
Discussion

muzza289

Original Poster:

169 posts

219 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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Ok - so this poll is a bit tongue in cheek but hear me out.....

I attend 4 - 5 track days a year. Road car - just a bit of fun. Trying to find the car's (and my!) limits and abilities.

Attended Donnington on 4th September. A Javlin Day - i find them usually quite well run.

There were 9 Red flags during the day (must be some kind of record?) - every one of them was because of a race car breaking down, spinning off, or just generally driving badly and losing control. They pretty much ruined the day.

I know the organisers need the numbers to make the finances work, so they don't mind who turns up as long as they pay.
But if you're serious about racing - put your hand in your pocket and pay your money to go to a proper test day to set you race car up and leave the track days to numpties like me who just want to have a bit of fun.

(Right, I've got my tin hat on and i'm ready for the onslaught.............)

mmm-five

11,226 posts

283 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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I picked yes, but only because I wasn't sure whether your definition of 'race car' was the same as mine.

Mine would be anything that isn't road legal - or able to drive into the circuit under its own power - not necessarily just a track-biased car that has been trailered there.

I don't mind having 'race cars' on track with me, but not when they're using the track as a test session for an upcoming race - as that's where they're pushing it too far, and are not looking out for anyone but themselves.

'Road legal' would also mean slicks would not be allowed, as they tend not to be DOT marked for road use.

Black_S3

2,667 posts

187 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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No for me I think as at the lower end the costs are a problem for many.

The only time I’ve been mixed up with race cars it was said in the briefing that they’d be sent home without a warning if they weren’t on best behaviour.... it was some mini series, so no major financial backing and they needed the chance to get to know a circuit they didn’t get a chance to visit often.... Not sure I’d like to get caught up in essentially a touring car practice though.

Dave Hedgehog

14,541 posts

203 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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i have only done one day where it was allowed but it was bloody dangerous

there where race cars from several different classes including radicals, all where a lot faster than the road cars but the radicals where just stupidly fast closing in on cars at a speed that it made judging where they would be as you approached a corner very difficult


Blackpuddin

16,409 posts

204 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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To put the other side of the equation, I was at a 'proper' meeting at Castle Combe a few weeks back and a guy was cruising around beating everybody with no apparent effort in a modern street-legal McLaren. Mind you he had a big accident at the start of the second outing and that caused a delay.

james_gt3rs

4,816 posts

190 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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I don't mind sharing the track with race cars as they generally have good awareness, so as long as you let them past quickly all is fine. BUT... they do seem to cause more than their fair share of breakdown red flags IMO..

HorneyMX5

5,306 posts

149 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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I've been on a couple of MSV days where they have clearly touted the day to those competing at the circuit the following weekend as a cheap test day.

The driving standards bit doesn't bother me hugely as they're generally OK if bit aggressive and I've done bit of circuit racing so I'm pretty comfortable with it. My 72 year old Dad who trackways with me occasionally? Not so much.

As a few other have pointed out, it's the stoppages they cause that annoy me most. At a day at Donnington a year or two ago it was red flag after red flag as the Ginetta juniors were constantly being pulled out of the gravel. Very frustrating.

NardoRS

60 posts

67 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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I’d consider a “race car” to be a vehicle that’s entered into a series and using the day as a test; often because a track day is a much cheaper proposition. As long as those cars are abiding by the rules of the day I don’t have a problem with sharing the track with them. I’m not sure who causes the most red flag incidents; I’ve seen a mix of fluids, mechanical failure and overdoing it from both but so far this year on 5 days I’ve only seen 3 red flags total.

CABC

5,528 posts

100 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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another gripe... the paddock at Brands is tiny. i was there early summer and could barely park as the paddock was full of trucks and cars from the entourage.

back to the actual track, good racers are fine, but there's a lot of incompetent drivers with a Nat B licence and attitude.
TDOs need to be a bit more proactive to balance the various needs. i'm becoming a bit more picky where and when i go.

Itsallicanafford

2,759 posts

158 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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...it’s a yes from me, I posted before about a day I had at donnington where some Ferrari GT3 thing was overtaking wherever he pleased...it shouldn’t be up to the guy in the megane (who’s only track prep was taking the kids seats out of the back) to have to take to the grass to avoid an accident...

Dave.

7,324 posts

252 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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It's a bit of a pisstake when they clearly have people with stopwatches and radios on the pit wall.

Being in a lowly MX5, the closing speeds in braking zones can take your focus off the task in hand.

But where do you draw the line? As above, there are plenty of road legal cars quick enough to tussle with low powered racecars.

There was a Mini Cooper racecar at the last track day I did. I held him up in corners, he held me up on the straights.

Of course, there was only one of us who was courteous enough to let the other past.

I suppose if you don't want racecars around you, pick the quieter days.

LondonTom

89 posts

213 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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It's too much of a grey area. Some 'race cars' will be slower than a well driven m3 or the like. Cars such as GT3's and can be stupidly quick on a track day, yet not considered a racecar.

I think some TDO's could do more to police the matter, although the worst driving I have witnessed on TD's has easily been from non racecars.

Ultimately, it comes down to respecting others on track and leaving egos in the pits.

meatballs

1,140 posts

59 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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I would like them to stick to road legal cars, but a 911 GT3 at combe met that criteria the other week, but didn't cause any issues on track despite wiping the floor with most stuff out there.

Race cars seem to be much happier breaking/bending the rules about overtaking on corners but the main issues I see are when slower cars/drivers don't signal to consent overtakes causing a queue behind them.

4.7

155 posts

169 months

Friday 6th September 2019
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Nope. Number of trackdays available would be decimated and prices rocket. Still only a niche industry really. Plenty of 'track toys' faster than club cars. Real quick race cars still do proper test days unless they get stuck for a date - then fail noise anyway. Dick behind any wheel is still a dick.

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Friday 6th September 2019
quotequote all
Yes absolutely.
We recently had the same experience as the OP and at the same track too, it was a total waste of time and money and felt like just a cash making exercise for the organisers who know full well what is going to happen.
There were first time drivers on the track with seasoned racers, overtaking was allowed on both sides which was hard work, but in reality most just overtook wherever tf they liked. Mid bend, entry, exit, you name it there were people overtaking like dheads.
You couldn't set a car up for a corner on the right line, the track was red flagged and closed several times as the 'pros' repeatedly chucked their Caterfields in the gravel then spreading it all over the track. We did about 25 laps in total.

Before the event I rang the organiser to ask who was going, he said he had no idea and his site didn't show that info....

Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 8th September 00:12

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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Club racers are getting priced out of test days. £3/minute is now commonplace. I would always look to see if there’s a Thursday track day before the meeting which I can do instead of the test day. I’m invariably in a sports car though not a radical etc.

brillomaster

1,242 posts

169 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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Its a firm yes from me. Last trackday i did was an evening trackday at donington, complete waste of time. In the briefing everyone was yessing and noing in all the right places, but then on track all hell broke loose. Show the slightest gap anywhere and 5 caterhams shove their way through. Im not a racing driver, so if theres a moron caterham on my inside before i turn in to a hairpin, then hes gonna get hit.

And yes, there were about 10 redflags in a two hr period, every time a fking caterham whod binned it into the gravel.

And twice i let people through, who then immediately binned it into the gravel in front of me, thanks, idiot.

Racing drivers are the bane of trackdays. Never seen any racecar abide by trackday rules. fk the lot of em. Id have no problem banning racecars. If it has a number on the side, its banned.

Evoluzione

10,345 posts

242 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
quotequote all
brillomaster said:
Its a firm yes from me. Last trackday i did was an evening trackday at donington, complete waste of time. In the briefing everyone was yessing and noing in all the right places, but then on track all hell broke loose. Show the slightest gap anywhere and 5 caterhams shove their way through. Im not a racing driver, so if theres a moron caterham on my inside before i turn in to a hairpin, then hes gonna get hit.

And yes, there were about 10 redflags in a two hr period, every time a fking caterham whod binned it into the gravel.

And twice i let people through, who then immediately binned it into the gravel in front of me, thanks, idiot.

Racing drivers are the bane of trackdays. Never seen any racecar abide by trackday rules. fk the lot of em. Id have no problem banning racecars. If it has a number on the side, its banned.
That sounds familiar! I wrote in and complained, whilst the organisers admitted it's an issue it was a waste of time. Money talks as usual, but I won't be going on one again.

CABC

5,528 posts

100 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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we cant name and shame, but we can highlight TDOs with better enforcement.
i would say LoT, Javelin and Goldtrack are good. BaT were, i don't know what's happened since Jonny left.
Goldtrack are pricey and do attract fast cars, but behaviour is still policed.
i think it helps when individual owner/managers are there, such as Colin of Javelin. Not always though, i've seen too soft an approach with other TDOs to regulars.
they will be exceptions though, and remember that the marshals are track related, not TDO. If behaviour goes unreported by drivers it'll often be overlooked. where some TDOs are doing damage is turning a blind eye when things are reported, and it's frankly offensive to ask me to get up early to hear something at 8.30 which they have no intent in enforcing. On the whole the UK circuits are pretty good, but as always in life, could do better.

doogalman

701 posts

244 months

Saturday 7th September 2019
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I instruct at Spa and the Nurburgring, so if the days I work on we have to mix with race teams big and small.
Some teams are ok but invariably we get the ones that don’t give a st about anyone else. Some organizers just say no. Others are happy to have them there which is fine but then just constantly turn a blind eye to their behavior.
So in summary yes by all means have race teams But kick them off with zero tolerance rules.