Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Poll: Should race cars be banned from attending track days?
Total Members Polled: 300
Discussion
johnwilliams77 said:
Vbox / data loggers also allow to understand throttle position, how hard you're breaking and lines through bends which can be very useful in terms of coaching and learning a cars balance. The assumption that everyone with a laptop looking solely at times is not always true.
But surely if you're looking at data traces like that you are treating it as a test day and not a trackday? Most trackday tuition is making sure you are taking the right lines, braking at a certain point on the track etc. Not 'lets go back to the garage and go through the data traces'. I appreciate that if you have done racing and understand looking at that kind of data it can help but surely the whole idea of a public trackday is to go and have fun, not chase tenths of a second. this is the point where for me it becomes a fine line between trackday behaviour and test day behaviour.
The last track-day I did this year acknowledged that a flat-out ban on timing is no longer practical, because many cars nowadays include laptimers built in, the latest go-pro's include GPS data to be used for overlays etc. They confirmed that going home and analysing any data that you took is fine, the problem is having the timing data readily available during the day and/or laps in such a way that it influences your driving to the point you're no longer driving for 'fun' and instead are pushing yourself in a competitive sense.
It's going to become increasingly hard to police as these 'amateur telemetry' options become more readily available to us plebs, but any obvious signs of people timing/reviewing data during a trackday should be enforced with no tolerance IMO. Regardless of what people say, if they're chasing a delta time they will take more risks to achieve a PB or whatever - that might mean risk of going off, cutting up slower traffic or worse.
It's going to become increasingly hard to police as these 'amateur telemetry' options become more readily available to us plebs, but any obvious signs of people timing/reviewing data during a trackday should be enforced with no tolerance IMO. Regardless of what people say, if they're chasing a delta time they will take more risks to achieve a PB or whatever - that might mean risk of going off, cutting up slower traffic or worse.
brillomaster said:
Its a firm yes from me. Last trackday i did was an evening trackday at donington, complete waste of time. In the briefing everyone was yessing and noing in all the right places, but then on track all hell broke loose. Show the slightest gap anywhere and 5 caterhams shove their way through. Im not a racing driver, so if theres a moron caterham on my inside before i turn in to a hairpin, then hes gonna get hit.
And yes, there were about 10 redflags in a two hr period, every time a f
king caterham whod binned it into the gravel.
And twice i let people through, who then immediately binned it into the gravel in front of me, thanks, idiot.
Racing drivers are the bane of trackdays. Never seen any racecar abide by trackday rules. fk the lot of em. Id have no problem banning racecars. If it has a number on the side, its banned.
I've been doing track days for 25 years in race cars,sometimes 15/20 a year, never spun and never had a problem and leave plenty in the bag as a safety margin! I think the tone of your response is probably a better indicator of why problems do occur !!!And yes, there were about 10 redflags in a two hr period, every time a f
king caterham whod binned it into the gravel.And twice i let people through, who then immediately binned it into the gravel in front of me, thanks, idiot.
Racing drivers are the bane of trackdays. Never seen any racecar abide by trackday rules. f
k the lot of em. Id have no problem banning racecars. If it has a number on the side, its banned.https://youtu.be/kenciXtrSz8
Half the time it comes down to who gets their moan in first.
"XYZ isn't using their mirrors, he had a train of 5 cars behind him. Finally got by on the short straight between old hairpin and McCleans"
Vs
"5 cars passed me at schwantz uninvited."
Multiple cars behind and clear track in front? Can have all the power in the world, but betting is that the same cars will be on your tail before the next turn in.
Best run day I've had on circuit was an RSR Premium day, f**kin' expensive but fast and fair. Caterhams, M3s, GT3s all mixing it up and achieving fast laps in different ways. Lightweights staying right up the kemmel, heavyweights yielding on the exit of melmedy or bruxelles knowing that if you're on their tail at that point they'll not shake you on the twisty bits. Ron seemed to know everyone, and to even get a place we needed to be vouched for. 4 days in iberia next spring, bring it on!
BaT Johnny used to run a '£50 to the marshals fund / charity' if you binned it or ran out of fuel. Seems fair enough.
"XYZ isn't using their mirrors, he had a train of 5 cars behind him. Finally got by on the short straight between old hairpin and McCleans"
Vs
"5 cars passed me at schwantz uninvited."
Multiple cars behind and clear track in front? Can have all the power in the world, but betting is that the same cars will be on your tail before the next turn in.
Best run day I've had on circuit was an RSR Premium day, f**kin' expensive but fast and fair. Caterhams, M3s, GT3s all mixing it up and achieving fast laps in different ways. Lightweights staying right up the kemmel, heavyweights yielding on the exit of melmedy or bruxelles knowing that if you're on their tail at that point they'll not shake you on the twisty bits. Ron seemed to know everyone, and to even get a place we needed to be vouched for. 4 days in iberia next spring, bring it on!
BaT Johnny used to run a '£50 to the marshals fund / charity' if you binned it or ran out of fuel. Seems fair enough.
amgmcqueen said:
Excuse my naivety but why don't race cars that want to test just go on test days instead of track days...?
Getting testing before a race meeting seems to be getting harder and harder.Certainly my experience is that race weekends are getting more and more busy, with more individual races/series occurring over a weekend. This leads to more cars wanting to test on the Friday and a big waiting list. The ones who can’t get on Friday testing then end up on a track day instead.
Plus it’s much cheaper to go on a TrackDay of course!
Interesting that I've just spotted an ad for a trackday at le mans where cars under 800kg are not allowed.
French trackday law apparently, no cars under 800 or over 1800kg. That means my poor AX GT isn't welcome :-( but appears to be aimed at getting rid of Caterham and radicals, to reduce speed differential or because of a few driving badly?
French trackday law apparently, no cars under 800 or over 1800kg. That means my poor AX GT isn't welcome :-( but appears to be aimed at getting rid of Caterham and radicals, to reduce speed differential or because of a few driving badly?
Edited by l354uge on Saturday 7th December 10:00
it's not that they're getting rid of them, but rather brining in weight classes.
1- Caterhams, Radicals, v small hatches, and other track specials like 2-elevens in one class
2- Most stuff in the middle
3- Tanks like RS6, M5s, E63, anything electric, in the heavyweight class.
it's not a awful idea but the weight limits are in silly places. 1250kg and under would be sensible which would put a modern Fiesta ST in above that but class a exige V6 under it.
1- Caterhams, Radicals, v small hatches, and other track specials like 2-elevens in one class
2- Most stuff in the middle
3- Tanks like RS6, M5s, E63, anything electric, in the heavyweight class.
it's not a awful idea but the weight limits are in silly places. 1250kg and under would be sensible which would put a modern Fiesta ST in above that but class a exige V6 under it.
TheMuu said:
it's not that they're getting rid of them, but rather brining in weight classes.
1- Caterhams, Radicals, v small hatches, and other track specials like 2-elevens in one class
2- Most stuff in the middle
3- Tanks like RS6, M5s, E63, anything electric, in the heavyweight class.
it's not a awful idea but the weight limits are in silly places. 1250kg and under would be sensible which would put a modern Fiesta ST in above that but class a exige V6 under it.
Power to weight would be more sensible, as what's the point of putting a C1 in with a Radical?1- Caterhams, Radicals, v small hatches, and other track specials like 2-elevens in one class
2- Most stuff in the middle
3- Tanks like RS6, M5s, E63, anything electric, in the heavyweight class.
it's not a awful idea but the weight limits are in silly places. 1250kg and under would be sensible which would put a modern Fiesta ST in above that but class a exige V6 under it.
bltamil1 said:
amgmcqueen said:
Excuse my naivety but why don't race cars that want to test just go on test days instead of track days...?
Getting testing before a race meeting seems to be getting harder and harder.i've only been doing trackdays for 18months now but have no problem with teams going. the ferarri guys at donington i've had/heard no issues with from others at track.
personally if the right attitude around timing is used, it shouldn't be an issue. as been said timing is increasing hard to police. i'll openly admit i do time but none of it is live displayed in the car and it's used at home when i get back. It helps to understand lines, corner speeds, and more importantly i've a video/data of where i went wrong to avoid it happening again. i use it for Improvements in both my skills over the year and latest mod/tweak.
it's clear on track whos running for timing over safety; you'll get the dive bombers into braking zone or that impatient driving manner like you get on the road. can't say i've met any on trackdays yet and everyone is there for enjoyment over lap times. i dont think anyone wants to risk coming home in a bent car if there's no awards or trophies being given out
personally if the right attitude around timing is used, it shouldn't be an issue. as been said timing is increasing hard to police. i'll openly admit i do time but none of it is live displayed in the car and it's used at home when i get back. It helps to understand lines, corner speeds, and more importantly i've a video/data of where i went wrong to avoid it happening again. i use it for Improvements in both my skills over the year and latest mod/tweak.
it's clear on track whos running for timing over safety; you'll get the dive bombers into braking zone or that impatient driving manner like you get on the road. can't say i've met any on trackdays yet and everyone is there for enjoyment over lap times. i dont think anyone wants to risk coming home in a bent car if there's no awards or trophies being given out
Edited by veehexx on Sunday 8th December 16:01
A little late to the debate for me, but I picked "no".
All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
All that needs to be done is for trackday organisers to have a dedicated "race car" time slot(s) within the day's activities.
I would suggest track day organisers simply have three different sessions running throughout the day.... 1st being "Race car" - for race cars obviously. 2nd being "Advanced" for trackday regulars who see themselves as competent on track, and the 3rd being a "Standard" session, whereby beginners and those who would not class themselves as "advanced" would get their slots.
The last trackday I went on was a few years ago and it had "beginner", "intermediate" and "advanced". I'm not sure the "intermediate" class needed to be there, it seems a bit superfluous to the set up.
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