Track day car without airbags

[tbennett]

Sorry if this has already have been answered

Im looking at getting a car that can be used for track days and daily use

So it would have to not have air bags or at least not have airbags in the seats so that the seats could be replaced with bucket seats. (thinking about MOT regs)

A roll cage would be fitted.

Ideally quite cheap

This may not be possible, thanks for any suggestions

[Ian_sUK]

I had a clio 182 with no airbags. A Renault clip can program the car to think it doesn't have any airbags fitted so no light on the dash. I presume the same can be done with other manufacturers.

[DoubleD]

Whats your budget? Cheap means different things to different people.

[tbennett]

Agreed the airbags could be removed and the computer programmed to disable the warning lights, but what about if after an accident this is checked and so the insurance becomes invalid - is this possible

for me cheap is a couple of thousand

[Order66]

Citroen C1 with the C1 racing club kit (you never said you wanted to go quickly!) - you can put a simple resistor in the airbag connector and the MoT won't be an issue.

Remember, if a car is modified for competition (i.e. cage, buckets, fire extinguisher etc) use then the airbag light is allowed to be blinking - but the MoT tester needs to be fully up on the regs.

For insurance the disabled airbag would be the least of your issues, adding the cage immediately puts it beyond most standard insurers (and will invalidate your current policy), you'd need to phone someone like Reis or Footman James etc to get a specialist policy - not necessarily more expensive than your normal road policy.

[tbennett]

Thanks for getting back - its not cost of insurance (but as you say will probably a lot higher) its more about it not being valid because the mot was invalid, even if you get it through an MOT when push comes to shove is it more likely that they would state that at the time of testing airbags where definitely present and all warning lights operated correctly

the citroen - good possibility

Also is there such a thin g as bucket/after market seats fro the clio with airbags and seat tensioners.



New to all this - so probably noob questions |

[DickyC]

Search on Disable Airbag and you'll find the resistor you need to fool the car the airbag is there. I can't see a tester dismantling the car to see if the bags are there or not if the lights behave correctly.

[tvrmark]

Sorry am I missing something, your looking for a cheap trackday car just go for a slightly older car, a 10 or 15 year old car is unlikely to have airbags in the seats.

[tigamilla]

Seat airbags can generally be coded out. You might get a warning at car startup but the airbag light will not stay on and the remaining airbags will remain armed (if that's what you want).

[Jakg]

tvrmark said:

Sorry am I missing something, your looking for a cheap trackday car just go for a slightly older car, a 10 or 15 year old car is unlikely to have airbags in the seats.

You'd be surprised - most BMWs even of that age will, same for larger hot hatches like the Megane 225.

[E-bmw]

You seem to be over-thinking issues that aren't really there.

You buy a car, you modify it, you declare ALL modifications to your insurance company, your insurance is therefore valid, not a problem.

You buy a car, you remove the airbags etc, you insert a 2.2 ohm/3.3 ohm (depending on manufacturer) resistor in the plug, the fault light isn't on, (the MOT only asks "is the fault light on/does it respond correctly on start up) not a problem.

Make sense?

[Paul_M3]

E-bmw said:

You buy a car, you remove the airbags etc, you insert a 2.2 ohm/3.3 ohm (depending on manufacturer) resistor in the plug, the fault light isn't on, (the MOT only asks "is the fault light on/does it respond correctly on start up) not a problem.

Make sense?

It's not that simple. There is the Major defect of: "(a) An airbag fitted as original equipment obviously missing"

Now an experienced tester will clearly know that a particular model SHOULD have an airbag. They don't care about a dash light.

However, there is a get-out clause but it can be a grey area:

"If a vehicle has been extensively modified or converted, certain defects, such as for components ‘missing where fitted as standard’ should not be applied, for example:

a car converted for competition rally use must have the rear seats removed, be fitted with a roll cage and full harness seat belts, may not be fitted with components such as brake servo, power steering or airbags

a car converted to a stretch limousine may no longer be fitted with items such as curtain airbags or a functional electronic stability control system

This exemption does not apply to vehicles with minor modifications. Therefore, a car fitted with rally style seats, body kit and a sports steering wheel would not be exempt from the requirement to have a driver’s airbag if one was fitted as standard equipment."

So they key thing would be convincing your MOT tester that your car is 'extensively modified'

[Barry Homo]

Never had any problems with MOT or insurance on my M3 track car. Resistor got rid of the light.

[tigamilla]

Paul_M3 said:

E-bmw said:

You buy a car, you remove the airbags etc, you insert a 2.2 ohm/3.3 ohm (depending on manufacturer) resistor in the plug, the fault light isn't on, (the MOT only asks "is the fault light on/does it respond correctly on start up) not a problem.

Make sense?

It's not that simple. There is the Major defect of: "(a) An airbag fitted as original equipment obviously missing"

Now an experienced tester will clearly know that a particular model SHOULD have an airbag. They don't care about a dash light.

However, there is a get-out clause but it can be a grey area:

"If a vehicle has been extensively modified or converted, certain defects, such as for components ‘missing where fitted as standard’ should not be applied, for example:

a car converted for competition rally use must have the rear seats removed, be fitted with a roll cage and full harness seat belts, may not be fitted with components such as brake servo, power steering or airbags

a car converted to a stretch limousine may no longer be fitted with items such as curtain airbags or a functional electronic stability control system

This exemption does not apply to vehicles with minor modifications. Therefore, a car fitted with rally style seats, body kit and a sports steering wheel would not be exempt from the requirement to have a driver’s airbag if one was fitted as standard equipment."

So they key thing would be convincing your MOT tester that your car is 'extensively modified'

Interesting. I wonder if under the "minor modification" criteria, an active steering wheel / dashboard drivers airbag but no side airbags would pass? For example; I think if you specify OEM bucket seats from some manufacturers e.g. ones that provide Recaro CS seats - they don't come with the side airbag - but the standard seats in the same model car do have side airbags.

[E-bmw]

Paul_M3 said:

E-bmw said:

You buy a car, you remove the airbags etc, you insert a 2.2 ohm/3.3 ohm (depending on manufacturer) resistor in the plug, the fault light isn't on, (the MOT only asks "is the fault light on/does it respond correctly on start up) not a problem.

Make sense?

It's not that simple. There is the Major defect of: "(a) An airbag fitted as original equipment obviously missing"

Now an experienced tester will clearly know that a particular model SHOULD have an airbag. They don't care about a dash light.

However, there is a get-out clause but it can be a grey area:

"If a vehicle has been extensively modified or converted, certain defects, such as for components ‘missing where fitted as standard’ should not be applied, for example:

So they key thing would be convincing your MOT tester that your car is 'extensively modified'

You are of course correct, but now read the OPs actual question.

He is going to fit a cage - that alone is a major modification, hence my answer.

[Paul_M3]

E-bmw said:

You are of course correct, but now read the OPs actual question.

He is going to fit a cage - that alone is a major modification, hence my answer.

He said track day and ‘daily’ use. He also said a cheap roll cage. That could quite easily be a bolt in half cage. It could very much be argued by an awkward MOT tester that it isn’t part of a ‘major’ modification for competition use, especially if the car is being kept civil enough for daily use with full interior present etc.

After all, some road cars can come from the factory with a half cage installed.

[227bhp]

Do it properly or risk issues, end of story.
Road and track cars are a fking nightmare. Wrong seats, harnesses and an accident = lots of pain.
Car seats, loose harnesses, no airbags and an accident = lots of pain.

[tvrmark]

It may be relavent, at the festival of speed this year I was speaking to Morgan (cars) about there horrible steering wheel. They said they need a steering wheel with an airbag for approval, if a customer don't like it, as soon as a customer buys the car we will replace it with one without and airbag and reprogram the ECU.
It may be a niche manufacture but they are openly removing a safety and they get away with it

[300bhp/ton]

Order66 said:

Remember, if a car is modified for competition (i.e. cage, buckets, fire extinguisher etc) use then the airbag light is allowed to be blinking - but the MoT tester needs to be fully up on the regs.

I suppose technically, a track day isn’t actually a competition or motorsports.