Cost of track days

[C70R]

leef44 said:

Elatino1 said:

A pair of front tyres will be looking pretty battered after 2 track days in my megane yes. I may get another about of them but not really more than that. The rears obviously last a lot longer.

I turn up and am on track at 9, it gets half hr breaks between most stints which are maybe 15 mins long and leave at 5. Thia is with cup2s or R888Rs. I have seen people shred road based tyres in 1 day no problem.

Shredding road based tyres in 1 day? Ur, yes that's me

Spent over 500 pounds on a set of new Continental Sport Contacts, did less than 1000 miles in them since last year. After the Lockdown this year, I had an opportunity to experience Brands Hatch for the first time. It happened to be one of the hottest days of the year. I was very gentle, overtaken by everyone.

However, it was relatively new treads and they completely melted and the tyres are all lumpy now. Feels like I'm driving on bumpy roads all the time now

Well, it was worth it for a one-off experience.

That's the weird bit for me. I did ~90 miles at Bedford on one of the hottest days of the year on my newish Michelin PS4s (couldn't get at my track wheels with R888Rs), and they still look absolutely grand. There was a bit of pickup on them when they got hot, but since then you'd barely know that I'd used them on track.

I just drove at 80%, didn't corner with the tyres screaming, wasn't trying for lap records, and still had a great day.

[nickfrog]

V6todayEVmanana said:

V6 Alfa Gtv

The delicious soundtrack alone would do the job for me!

[leef44]

C70R said:

That's the weird bit for me. I did ~90 miles at Bedford on one of the hottest days of the year on my newish Michelin PS4s (couldn't get at my track wheels with R888Rs), and they still look absolutely grand. There was a bit of pickup on them when they got hot, but since then you'd barely know that I'd used them on track.

I just drove at 80%, didn't corner with the tyres screaming, wasn't trying for lap records, and still had a great day.

I used to do the occasional track day on Bedford and never had this issue. I would get some pick up but nothing like this. The treads look like they have melted and remoulded in small lumps. I wonder whether the gradient/compression makes that much more difference. Brands Hatch was like a rollercoaster, I kept having to back off because my stomach was getting queezy (yes I'm a snowflake in my old age)

Admittedly PS4s were my first tyre choice but they were not available at the time. I had a back-order at Costco which I held for six months but there were supply issues with Michelin for that size at the time so I eventually cancelled my order and went back to the OEM Continentals which are not very durable (rears last 10,000 miles gentle driving).

[leef44]

nickfrog said:

leef44 said:

However, it was relatively new treads and they completely melted and the tyres are all lumpy now. Feels like I'm driving on bumpy roads all the time now

In fairness if you have a lot of tread (anything more than around 6mm) on a road carcass then that amplifies the overheating problem because there is a lot of block movement, plus the blocks are quite small on a road tyre. Starting at 6mm or less helps a bit, or 8mm is OK on a stiffer carcass like AD08 or NS2R.

The way they feel now may also be due to either pick up or build up which will go away with a few road miles.

Cheers, that's exactly what I thought and hope that a few miles will smooth things. When they were hot on track, they must have deformed and remoulded into small lumps which hardened. This has not been helped by me not driving the car for the next four weeks which has given it time to cure and harden in the deformed shapes. I will see...

ETA: in hindsight I would have still done the trackday, the experience was worth it at the time!

[V6todayEVmanana]

C70R said:

That's the weird bit for me. I did ~90 miles at Bedford on one of the hottest days of the year on my newish Michelin PS4s (couldn't get at my track wheels with R888Rs), and they still look absolutely grand. There was a bit of pickup on them when they got hot, but since then you'd barely know that I'd used them on track.

I just drove at 80%, didn't corner with the tyres screaming, wasn't trying for lap records, and still had a great day.

I think your last sentence sums it up, tyres screaming usually ended up with me needing new tyres otherwise I could happily use them again, prefer to enjoy the faster/wider corners and work on my exit speed. Similar with braking. Not having the best laptimes doesn't stop me grinning.

nickfrog said:

The delicious soundtrack alone would do the job for me!

Especially enjoyable on the tracks, where nobody minds the high rev music. Very strong engine too hence confident working it once warmed.

[C70R]

I think I finally understand the "done a set of tyres by lunchtime, mate" cohort.

I followed a Focus RS around Cadwell Park on Monday, and strongly suspect he was one of that group. Every slow corner was exited with smoke pouring off the inside tyre, and every fast corner looked like a wrestling match with the steering wheel.

In spite of this, I managed to stay in touch with him (power difference notwithstanding) and barring a little rubber pickup my semis barely look like they were used.

Maybe it's me that's not trying hard enough?

[CABC]

leef44 said:

Shredding road based tyres in 1 day? Ur, yes that's me

Spent over 500 pounds on a set of new Continental Sport Contacts, did less than 1000 miles in them since last year. After the Lockdown this year, I had an opportunity to experience Brands Hatch for the first time. It happened to be one of the hottest days of the year. I was very gentle, overtaken by everyone.

However, it was relatively new treads and they completely melted and the tyres are all lumpy now. Feels like I'm driving on bumpy roads all the time now

Well, it was worth it for a one-off experience.

Contis are the worst track tyre, they not only melt but the blocks tear. great road tyre for the same reason.
you can also shave a new tyre (motmotorsports supply tyres and do it) so that with 3mm less off a new tyre it will last longer.
NS2R would be better

[nickfrog]

C70R said:

I followed a Focus RS around Cadwell Park on Monday, and strongly suspect he was one of that group. Every slow corner was exited with smoke pouring off the inside tyre, and every fast corner looked like a wrestling match with the steering wheel.

And he was losing most of the time. He was literally stabbing the throttle 3 or 4 times per corner. He could have used a steering wheel mounted on/off switch instead.

[C70R]

nickfrog said:

C70R said:

I followed a Focus RS around Cadwell Park on Monday, and strongly suspect he was one of that group. Every slow corner was exited with smoke pouring off the inside tyre, and every fast corner looked like a wrestling match with the steering wheel.

And he was losing most of the time. He was literally stabbing the throttle 3 or 4 times per corner. He could have used a steering wheel mounted on/off switch instead.

I'd completely forgotten that this was the run with you in the car!

Sadly my fat fingers meant that the GoPro only recorded three photos of us waiting to go out, rather than a video of that session.

[ecain63]

If it's of any use to anyone who's track car shopping......

I worked out the cost of 2021 on track in my 2019 Exige 410.

2000 track miles. Plus distance to and from (4000 total I reckon).
14 events from Feb to October including a Nurburgring trip.
All fuel to and from venues, and fuel used on track.
Track insurance at £60k with Moris.
Set of PFC pads front and rear.
Main dealer service.
Set of new Cup2 tyres (although not actually bought them yet).
All track day tickets including garage fees.

£7000-7500.

I think that's a bargain personally. I reckon in a heavy saloon you'd maybe triple the cost of consumables.

Figure doesn't include road tax, road insurance costs, or fuel used day to day.

[MrC986]

C70R said:

I think I finally understand the "done a set of tyres by lunchtime, mate" cohort.

I followed a Focus RS around Cadwell Park on Monday, and strongly suspect he was one of that group. Every slow corner was exited with smoke pouring off the inside tyre, and every fast corner looked like a wrestling match with the steering wheel.

In spite of this, I managed to stay in touch with him (power difference notwithstanding) and barring a little rubber pickup my semis barely look like they were used.

Maybe it's me that's not trying hard enough?

When I had my R56 Cooper S I used Yokohama AD08R tyres and they were a good compromise given I tended to drive to/from the track on them as well. The 2 friends who’ve track based Mini R53s now have a good stock of semi slick/wet tyres with some being the Nankang track biased tyres & Pirelli Trofeo Rs in the past - if you want more detail send me a PM as they’re not shy when it comes to pressing the “fast pedal” & have owned them for 5 yrs so they’ve tried pretty much all good track biased tyres.

We’ve found in the past that some of the higher powered cars such as Ford RSs & Audi RSS etc. struggle as they day goes on as they cook the tyres/brakes early on or worse still have a pretty big “off” & are lucky to avoid the barriers & it eventually tempers their over exuberance in the main

[nickfrog]

ecain63 said:

£7000-7500.

I think that's a bargain personally. I reckon in a heavy saloon you'd maybe triple the cost of consumables.

Yes it's a bargain at around £500/day although I assume if you take out the Ring trips the cost would fall to around £400/day as the Ring also attracts incidentals like hotels/tunnel etc. My car is probably 400kgs more than yours but I still get to around £500 on the same basis excluding any overseas trips.

Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 22 November 14:40

[ecain63]

Ok, take out £700 on tyres and the £600 spent on our ring trip.
Approx £5750-6000 over 13 events.

Circa £450 a day, with everything thrown in. Track insurance, fuel, etc.

Take off another £150 a day for insurance, which leaves £300 a day including the cost of the ticket and any garage hire. That'd be the bare bones of it.

Edited by ecain63 on Sunday 22 November 15:26