Anyone changed to a slower car and not regretted it?
Discussion
how about a complete change to a classic of some sort?
I have been on many trackdays when people have had old Triumphs and the like out on track and they all seem to be having a ball catching slides drifting round the hairpins and absolutely ragging a 40+ year old classic.
One at Snetterton particularly stands out a bloke in a TR6, well tuned and not by any means slow sliding it round all day. I had a chat with him and it was like he was on speed or something he was buzzing with it all. I know the organiser had a word with him about sliding so much but he just said there was nothing he could do the car was 50 years old and what did they expect, he was left alone to continue grinning for the rest of the day.
edit to add that in talking to him it was clear he had some seriously quick tin at home but the TR6 was his trackday car of choice because of the fun factor.
I have been on many trackdays when people have had old Triumphs and the like out on track and they all seem to be having a ball catching slides drifting round the hairpins and absolutely ragging a 40+ year old classic.
One at Snetterton particularly stands out a bloke in a TR6, well tuned and not by any means slow sliding it round all day. I had a chat with him and it was like he was on speed or something he was buzzing with it all. I know the organiser had a word with him about sliding so much but he just said there was nothing he could do the car was 50 years old and what did they expect, he was left alone to continue grinning for the rest of the day.
edit to add that in talking to him it was clear he had some seriously quick tin at home but the TR6 was his trackday car of choice because of the fun factor.
I’ve used lots of different cars over the years on track and I can tell you with 100% honesty that speed doesn’t equal track pleasure.
It’s about feeling like you’re mastering the car and the track - a feeling that you’re making progress getting faster and faster.
The car should serve up a side order of adrenaline but the moment it becomes scary and you’re in the pits thinking “it’s 4:30pm I’ll not push my luck and go out again” then the car has failed to look after you - it’s too edgy - the setup just too far gone “race car” for a true track day hero car.
The very best cars and setups make do with their power - of course you can have many flavours of that - but all have one defining quality. And that is that rain or shine you don’t want to stop driving them. One minute it’s lunchtime and the next thing the day is over and you’ve been out, lap after lap of fun and ten minutes later you’re snoring and you’re glad you have a co-driver to make the trip home for you.
For example I spent yesterday in a little 150hp Ginetta GDRC car at Snetterton and I had a complete and total riot of a day. I drove the wheels off the bloody thing - overstepped the mark a few times and ended up at 10.5 tenths but largely I behaved myself. Then it rained and I still stayed out, slipping and sliding around like a snail but laughing all the way. Almost everyone else just went home - had the track to myself! - they missed a great hour but only in the right car!
I will concede that if you’re on a day where people are being idiots and not using the their mirrors (or ignoring them) it can be frustrating in a slower car where you’re quick round a lap but the fast bits are the corners - in that case yes, a bit more power can be nice to squirt past, but by and large I would say that you learn most and take most away from it as a driver in a car where you have to work a bit harder to put a good lap together rather than cornering at 6/10 before unleashing 600hp to make up for that!
It’s about feeling like you’re mastering the car and the track - a feeling that you’re making progress getting faster and faster.
The car should serve up a side order of adrenaline but the moment it becomes scary and you’re in the pits thinking “it’s 4:30pm I’ll not push my luck and go out again” then the car has failed to look after you - it’s too edgy - the setup just too far gone “race car” for a true track day hero car.
The very best cars and setups make do with their power - of course you can have many flavours of that - but all have one defining quality. And that is that rain or shine you don’t want to stop driving them. One minute it’s lunchtime and the next thing the day is over and you’ve been out, lap after lap of fun and ten minutes later you’re snoring and you’re glad you have a co-driver to make the trip home for you.
For example I spent yesterday in a little 150hp Ginetta GDRC car at Snetterton and I had a complete and total riot of a day. I drove the wheels off the bloody thing - overstepped the mark a few times and ended up at 10.5 tenths but largely I behaved myself. Then it rained and I still stayed out, slipping and sliding around like a snail but laughing all the way. Almost everyone else just went home - had the track to myself! - they missed a great hour but only in the right car!
I will concede that if you’re on a day where people are being idiots and not using the their mirrors (or ignoring them) it can be frustrating in a slower car where you’re quick round a lap but the fast bits are the corners - in that case yes, a bit more power can be nice to squirt past, but by and large I would say that you learn most and take most away from it as a driver in a car where you have to work a bit harder to put a good lap together rather than cornering at 6/10 before unleashing 600hp to make up for that!
I think it matters a bit depending on the degree or what car you are "downgrading" to.
I usually use my 500bhp Impreza on track which is plenty to keep on top of at all times. When my wife was going to get rid of her old R53 Mini Cooper S I took it on a couple of trackdays to see if I wouldn't mind doing a little bit to it and using it as a track car instead of the Impreza.
Going from 500 down to about 170bhp was a bit too much and I found I wasn't even bothering to go full pelt down the straights as it was just wringing the cars neck for no reason. Would probably be different if the car was something a bit more entertaining or half the weight.
Ive got a Hyundai i30N Performance now as a daily which will be getting its first track outing in Oct. I'm hoping that although half the power of the Impreza it will still be quick, fun and reliable enough to be a good track car, other people certainly seem to rate them.
Regarding one of your other points OP, since you already have it I'd keep hold of the trailer and use that for whatever you take. Ive had the discussion with friends and we all agree we get more enjoyment out of a trackday when we know if anything goes wrong with the car we can just bung it on a trailer and go home as opposed to having to baby the car a bit through the day or having wait hours to get the big yellow fun bus home. And you dont have to do the drive there and back with the car full of spare fuel / tyres / tools and have somewhere to store stuff safely on the day
I usually use my 500bhp Impreza on track which is plenty to keep on top of at all times. When my wife was going to get rid of her old R53 Mini Cooper S I took it on a couple of trackdays to see if I wouldn't mind doing a little bit to it and using it as a track car instead of the Impreza.
Going from 500 down to about 170bhp was a bit too much and I found I wasn't even bothering to go full pelt down the straights as it was just wringing the cars neck for no reason. Would probably be different if the car was something a bit more entertaining or half the weight.
Ive got a Hyundai i30N Performance now as a daily which will be getting its first track outing in Oct. I'm hoping that although half the power of the Impreza it will still be quick, fun and reliable enough to be a good track car, other people certainly seem to rate them.
Regarding one of your other points OP, since you already have it I'd keep hold of the trailer and use that for whatever you take. Ive had the discussion with friends and we all agree we get more enjoyment out of a trackday when we know if anything goes wrong with the car we can just bung it on a trailer and go home as opposed to having to baby the car a bit through the day or having wait hours to get the big yellow fun bus home. And you dont have to do the drive there and back with the car full of spare fuel / tyres / tools and have somewhere to store stuff safely on the day
I went from a 250 bhp Mini R56 with various track focused improvements to a manual 325 Compact that I jointly own with a friend (man maths/easier to get past our respective SWMBOs) that we’ve tweaked with better suspension & an interior diet etc. The BMW is bigger of course/slower but we find it a great car to use & for very few £s (try finding a decent one for sale!) with more driver input required when the conditions are damp/wet & if we did get it wrong, the parts are cheaper than for a Mini if we used second hand ones. The BMW is of course less mechanically complex which is also good.
Gratuitous photo of a recent BMW Car Club track day
Gratuitous photo of a recent BMW Car Club track day
Edited by MrC986 on Wednesday 30th September 19:45
I've chopped around between all sorts of road and track cars including a race Caterham on slicks, air cooled 911, MX-5 mk2, various fwd hatchbacks and coupes, Z4M, Corvette C6 and the slowest being a near standard RX-8 Trophy car. The one thing I have never worried about is how fast the car is around a trackday lap. I find it just changes the type of car you have fun chasing. Actually, there is an exception, I once took my wife's old Panda 100HP out for a session, it was too slow to keep up with anything!
More important to me is how engaging and challenging the car is, hence my preference for rear wheel drive. My wife had a 986 Boxster S for years, that was brilliant as standard on the odd occasion we tracked it. Being able to drive to and from the circuit without a tow car and trailer makes the whole experience more enjoyable too, although many will disagree with good reason.
More important to me is how engaging and challenging the car is, hence my preference for rear wheel drive. My wife had a 986 Boxster S for years, that was brilliant as standard on the odd occasion we tracked it. Being able to drive to and from the circuit without a tow car and trailer makes the whole experience more enjoyable too, although many will disagree with good reason.
To me the last poster has hit the nail on the head.
You either like a clear track to try to improve your lap times and lines, so are the guy who is still going around at 4.58 pm,
or, like me, a track day is just a bit of fun and you like having someone of similar speed to chase and play with.
I have a TVR and have always preferred the track days where we can get a number of TVRs along, and go out and play together.
This improves the chat between runs.....and I have yet to meet a TVR owner who doesn't use 100 words where 10 would do.
This also works if there are half a dozen MX5s, Lotuses, Caterhams or similar present - I enjoy chasing them, dicing with them, and having passenger rides in each other's cars.
You either like a clear track to try to improve your lap times and lines, so are the guy who is still going around at 4.58 pm,
or, like me, a track day is just a bit of fun and you like having someone of similar speed to chase and play with.
I have a TVR and have always preferred the track days where we can get a number of TVRs along, and go out and play together.
This improves the chat between runs.....and I have yet to meet a TVR owner who doesn't use 100 words where 10 would do.
This also works if there are half a dozen MX5s, Lotuses, Caterhams or similar present - I enjoy chasing them, dicing with them, and having passenger rides in each other's cars.
dunc_sx said:
Boggo - They are a massive temptation, I'm going to research them. Are the roofs actually any good for wet running out of interest?
Haha, if you get wet you're just going too slow. On track a roof is dangerous in my opinion, you can't see much behind you. On the road....meh do what you like. Some people buy these half hoods, but with a full cage the quickest exit is out the top of the cage, so I wouldn't want to block me escape route! Caterham is 100% the answer you're looking for. 100's of people drive them to and from the track.
I know the R26R has been mentioned, but I have noticed an increase in stripped out R26 road cars on track in the last three years.
Just like the E36 Beemer, the MX5 and Clio 182 before them, If they weren't any good, you probably wouldn't see so many of them.
Just like the E36 Beemer, the MX5 and Clio 182 before them, If they weren't any good, you probably wouldn't see so many of them.
Edited by Tommo87 on Tuesday 20th October 12:01
Evoluzione said:
To be blunt, It depends on how lazy or untalented you are really. A lesser car will require you to pedal a lot harder.
I took an MX5 NC and put some money into it to make it into a proper track car. The Mk3 lends itself very well as it has the 1.8 or 2.0 Duratec engine in it, but you can fit a modded NA 2.3 or 2.5 as externally they are the same so bolt straight in.
Power output is governed by your wallet, 200, 250, even 300bhp is possible.
Turbo ones are heavy and unreliable on track unless you pour a heck of a lot of money into them and that won't make it lighter.
“Turbo ones are heavy and unreliable on track”I took an MX5 NC and put some money into it to make it into a proper track car. The Mk3 lends itself very well as it has the 1.8 or 2.0 Duratec engine in it, but you can fit a modded NA 2.3 or 2.5 as externally they are the same so bolt straight in.
Power output is governed by your wallet, 200, 250, even 300bhp is possible.
Turbo ones are heavy and unreliable on track unless you pour a heck of a lot of money into them and that won't make it lighter.
How do you come to this conclusion?
Hi, thanks for the continued responses.
I'm getting towards a conclusion. Although many are suggesting Caterhams (and I have liked them when I've driven them) I think I'd just miss the radical when driving one although I accept there would be more traffic to play with.
So I've sold my 997 and I'm currently shopping for GT86's and Cayman's with preference leaning towards the Cayman for the mid-engine layout and satisfying drive chain.
Thanks again,
Dunc.
I'm getting towards a conclusion. Although many are suggesting Caterhams (and I have liked them when I've driven them) I think I'd just miss the radical when driving one although I accept there would be more traffic to play with.
So I've sold my 997 and I'm currently shopping for GT86's and Cayman's with preference leaning towards the Cayman for the mid-engine layout and satisfying drive chain.
Thanks again,
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Tuesday 10th November 08:40
Interested to see where you go with this! Pretty much anything is going to be a 'step-down' from the Radical ay.
But echoing many others, straight line speed plays a much smaller part in the enjoyment of a track day compared to a good chassis. Myself and a few friends all have imported Honda's, all have the K20A engine. My friends have Integras and Civics whilst I have an Accord with the same engine, so with the extra weight its always the slower car of the bunch, but there a lot to be said for chucking a big saloon around a race circuit and still keeping up with things that it probably shouldn't!
But echoing many others, straight line speed plays a much smaller part in the enjoyment of a track day compared to a good chassis. Myself and a few friends all have imported Honda's, all have the K20A engine. My friends have Integras and Civics whilst I have an Accord with the same engine, so with the extra weight its always the slower car of the bunch, but there a lot to be said for chucking a big saloon around a race circuit and still keeping up with things that it probably shouldn't!
I was on the look-out for the a track day car, when I returned to the UK, bought an MR2 Turbo, which turned out to be a turd and as such I fell out of love with it and couldn't be arsed with it. So decided to sell it and then trade in my daily and get something that I could use as a daily and track car. For my budget there was only one answer I liked, so got a Cayman 987.2 2.9. I could have afforded a newer lower miled GT86, but have always preferred mid-engine. I absolutely love it, daily driver and track day car perfection for me.
That said though, if I could have afforded it, I would have gone down the Evora route to be honest and the Cayman is likely to get replaced by an Evora a few years down the line.
That said though, if I could have afforded it, I would have gone down the Evora route to be honest and the Cayman is likely to get replaced by an Evora a few years down the line.
Having done my first trackday in the new car last week I can now say I’m happy with the slower car.
It’s modified Impreza down to standard i30N so only about 3 sec a lap slower than before rather than 20 sec slower than it would be going from a Radical to GT86 or something but I had just as much fun and it was also nice not to have the anxiety of yet another part breaking and ruining the day.
It’s modified Impreza down to standard i30N so only about 3 sec a lap slower than before rather than 20 sec slower than it would be going from a Radical to GT86 or something but I had just as much fun and it was also nice not to have the anxiety of yet another part breaking and ruining the day.
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