disc & pad wear rate & noises
Discussion
CL Brakes RC6 Brake Pad Compound
The CL Brakes RC6 is the most popular motorsport compound and is used in all disciplines - from dedicated trackday cars, rally cars as well as circuit race cars. The CL Brakes RC6 is the ultimate all rounder with moderate pad and disc wear. The RC6 is not suited for trackday cars driven on the road as its high iron content means you will get high disc wear at low temperatures but on circuit wear is reduced as the pads get up to correct operating temperatures. The CL Brakes RC6 pad compound works well with motorsport tyres to give far superior braking than rival brands. The RC6 brake pad compound has a very flat friction curve, giving excellent initial bite under braking as well as maintaining braking balance during the race. The friction coefficient of μ=0.5 gives a inspiring firm pedal and better modulation compared to organic brake pad compounds. Due to the high friction pad material of the Carbone Lorraine RC6 range we recommend that both the front and rear brakes are upgraded to CL brakes. This will help keep the cars original brake balance and will improve stopping distances greater than just fronts alone as well as reduce the risk of locking the front brakes under heavy braking.
CL Brakes RC6E (Endurance) Brake Pad Compound
CL Brakes RC6E pads have a similar braking coefficient to the CL Brakes RC6 (μ=0.46 vs μ=0.5) but has an extremely low pad and disc wear rate. The CL Brakes RC6E is ideal for endurance racing and we've had customers using these on high end road performance cars due to their long life and consistent braking performance. Although the CL Brakes RC6 endurance pad compound is more expensive to initially buy, it usually works out cost effective for race teams on a tight budget where the brake pads will be required to last not just a few events but a whole race season!
https://www.cl-brakes.co.uk/pad-compounds-explaine...
The CL Brakes RC6 is the most popular motorsport compound and is used in all disciplines - from dedicated trackday cars, rally cars as well as circuit race cars. The CL Brakes RC6 is the ultimate all rounder with moderate pad and disc wear. The RC6 is not suited for trackday cars driven on the road as its high iron content means you will get high disc wear at low temperatures but on circuit wear is reduced as the pads get up to correct operating temperatures. The CL Brakes RC6 pad compound works well with motorsport tyres to give far superior braking than rival brands. The RC6 brake pad compound has a very flat friction curve, giving excellent initial bite under braking as well as maintaining braking balance during the race. The friction coefficient of μ=0.5 gives a inspiring firm pedal and better modulation compared to organic brake pad compounds. Due to the high friction pad material of the Carbone Lorraine RC6 range we recommend that both the front and rear brakes are upgraded to CL brakes. This will help keep the cars original brake balance and will improve stopping distances greater than just fronts alone as well as reduce the risk of locking the front brakes under heavy braking.
CL Brakes RC6E (Endurance) Brake Pad Compound
CL Brakes RC6E pads have a similar braking coefficient to the CL Brakes RC6 (μ=0.46 vs μ=0.5) but has an extremely low pad and disc wear rate. The CL Brakes RC6E is ideal for endurance racing and we've had customers using these on high end road performance cars due to their long life and consistent braking performance. Although the CL Brakes RC6 endurance pad compound is more expensive to initially buy, it usually works out cost effective for race teams on a tight budget where the brake pads will be required to last not just a few events but a whole race season!
https://www.cl-brakes.co.uk/pad-compounds-explaine...
ecsrobin said:
Sorry to possibly steal the thread but seems some knowledgeable people on here. Is everyone running matched pads front and rear or are you going for different pads on the rear?
Ideally you want to minimise the gap in friction coefficient but having a slightly higher coef at the front is OK. I run DS1. 11 at the front and stayed on OE pads at the rear. The rear axle is slightly lively in the braking zone but it's heavy with decent weight distribution so nothing too bad. What car and what front pads are you planning to run? Edited by nickfrog on Monday 19th October 14:40
It’s the new GR Yaris.
Front
Rear
I’ve read a lot of good things for the Pagid RS29 or CL RC5+
The car will be run on the road as a daily but have about 4/5 ring trips planned for next year plus maybe a couple of UK track days.
My plan is to upgrade fluid and pads on arrival next month and possibly upgrade to braided lines. The car already has ducting for brake cooling.
Plan will be to run on Nankang NS2R tyres.
Front
Rear
I’ve read a lot of good things for the Pagid RS29 or CL RC5+
The car will be run on the road as a daily but have about 4/5 ring trips planned for next year plus maybe a couple of UK track days.
My plan is to upgrade fluid and pads on arrival next month and possibly upgrade to braided lines. The car already has ducting for brake cooling.
Plan will be to run on Nankang NS2R tyres.
veehexx said:
potential noise aside, could you use the RSL29's daily or are they too aggressive? i've seen the bedding process for them so rather not be doing that too often.
i did run cup2's before the AR1's and i'd say minimum tyre for the fk2r on track but were just too expensive (£250/ea fitted) and struggle in cold&wet conditions on the road. I shaved around 3secs from my donington national time between those tyres too.
i've got my orders in for cooling although probably wont get time to do it for a few weeks. washer bottle will be relocated to boot, and i'll be able to fit a 6" feed from bumper to the inner side of arch liner, with a big air re director mounted on inner wing. If that doesn't cool the brakes then i don't know what will.
glad the giros are are just over their limit. I'll get 1 more trackday with them next year and will be able to prove this brake cooling concept. assuming all good then I'll buy new rings and seriously consider the RSL29's. maybe sell the CL's or keep 'em as emergency track pads.
Hello.i did run cup2's before the AR1's and i'd say minimum tyre for the fk2r on track but were just too expensive (£250/ea fitted) and struggle in cold&wet conditions on the road. I shaved around 3secs from my donington national time between those tyres too.
i've got my orders in for cooling although probably wont get time to do it for a few weeks. washer bottle will be relocated to boot, and i'll be able to fit a 6" feed from bumper to the inner side of arch liner, with a big air re director mounted on inner wing. If that doesn't cool the brakes then i don't know what will.
glad the giros are are just over their limit. I'll get 1 more trackday with them next year and will be able to prove this brake cooling concept. assuming all good then I'll buy new rings and seriously consider the RSL29's. maybe sell the CL's or keep 'em as emergency track pads.
I do some trackdays and I use RS29 - They are really good. No experience of them daily, but on the cold/wet trackdays I've done, the first session etc, I've not noticed any problems!
They also last forever. Really durable.
ecsrobin said:
It’s the new GR Yaris.
I’ve read a lot of good things for the Pagid RS29 or CL RC5+
The car will be run on the road as a daily but have about 4/5 ring trips planned for next year plus maybe a couple of UK track days.
My plan is to upgrade fluid and pads on arrival next month and possibly upgrade to braided lines. The car already has ducting for brake cooling.
Plan will be to run on Nankang NS2R tyres.
The Ring is not hard at all on brakes, you might even get away with it on OE pads. Your OE fluid will be fresh too so I would even leave that alone. I’ve read a lot of good things for the Pagid RS29 or CL RC5+
The car will be run on the road as a daily but have about 4/5 ring trips planned for next year plus maybe a couple of UK track days.
My plan is to upgrade fluid and pads on arrival next month and possibly upgrade to braided lines. The car already has ducting for brake cooling.
Plan will be to run on Nankang NS2R tyres.
But for UK track days you may indeed need pads but not sure what is available for that caliper.
The OE lines will already be braided, just internally and are covered with rubber for protection. They're just not as pretty as aftermarket ones but performance is often on a par.
weekend went well even if i've had to place another order.
152mm ducting went in between bumper and inner arch so oodles of air there for the air director to work. i've also (finally!) found a way to duct in 62mm towards the disc from under the car.
plan is to use some old PBS pads that i started to get pad fade on in the past and use those to test brake cooling. The CL's didnt show any hint of fade but were getting excessively hot they're not really a good pad to test with. the PBS's were on their limit and just started to overheat so with the new ducting that should bring plenty of cool air to the wheel well, they shouldn't fade.
152mm ducting went in between bumper and inner arch so oodles of air there for the air director to work. i've also (finally!) found a way to duct in 62mm towards the disc from under the car.
plan is to use some old PBS pads that i started to get pad fade on in the past and use those to test brake cooling. The CL's didnt show any hint of fade but were getting excessively hot they're not really a good pad to test with. the PBS's were on their limit and just started to overheat so with the new ducting that should bring plenty of cool air to the wheel well, they shouldn't fade.
nickfrog said:
The Ring is not hard at all on brakes, you might even get away with it on OE pads. Your OE fluid will be fresh too so I would even leave that alone.
But for UK track days you may indeed need pads but not sure what is available for that caliper.
The OE lines will already be braided, just internally and are covered with rubber for protection. They're just not as pretty as aftermarket ones but performance is often on a par.
Ive found on both trips to the ring I was finding my brembos with OEM brembo pads fading about half way round although I think I’ve put this down to fluid rather than pads. The callipers I believe have previously been used on Lexus’s so most manufacturers will have a pad out. Endless pads fit. But for UK track days you may indeed need pads but not sure what is available for that caliper.
The OE lines will already be braided, just internally and are covered with rubber for protection. They're just not as pretty as aftermarket ones but performance is often on a par.
If hasn’t been mentioned already, weight is the achilles heal when braking, I have an FK8 and found the standard set up ok for road use but start using them properly and the weakness shines through even on the road.
Running semi slicks will exacerbate your issue, for a car like the FK2 and FK8 you really need much beefier brakes, 6 pot Ap set up should suffice for around 4K, also better brake cooling, I have spent sometime looking at ducting on mine, removing the disk splash plate might help.
I have never seen discs much worse than that, personally I wouldn’t use them again and if you can’t afford the 6 pot have a chat with someone who has raced them and get some advice on set up.
As you have found running a modern hot hatch gets expensive on track, they are fine for occasional track use but honestly you are better off getting a dedicated track car, you will constantly compromise.
Running semi slicks will exacerbate your issue, for a car like the FK2 and FK8 you really need much beefier brakes, 6 pot Ap set up should suffice for around 4K, also better brake cooling, I have spent sometime looking at ducting on mine, removing the disk splash plate might help.
I have never seen discs much worse than that, personally I wouldn’t use them again and if you can’t afford the 6 pot have a chat with someone who has raced them and get some advice on set up.
As you have found running a modern hot hatch gets expensive on track, they are fine for occasional track use but honestly you are better off getting a dedicated track car, you will constantly compromise.
VTECMatt said:
If hasn’t been mentioned already, weight is the achilles heal when braking, I have an FK8 and found the standard set up ok for road use but start using them properly and the weakness shines through even on the road.
Running semi slicks will exacerbate your issue, for a car like the FK2 and FK8 you really need much beefier brakes, 6 pot Ap set up should suffice for around 4K, also better brake cooling, I have spent sometime looking at ducting on mine, removing the disk splash plate might help.
I have never seen discs much worse than that, personally I wouldn’t use them again and if you can’t afford the 6 pot have a chat with someone who has raced them and get some advice on set up.
As you have found running a modern hot hatch gets expensive on track, they are fine for occasional track use but honestly you are better off getting a dedicated track car, you will constantly compromise.
thats where i'm at now. i expected a few £k's for specing upto track spec, but i'm close to 3-4x that now. it's also very much an experimentation platform for me. i bought the car intending to start being a semi-regular at the track - seeing whats needed, what works, what doesnt etc. Running semi slicks will exacerbate your issue, for a car like the FK2 and FK8 you really need much beefier brakes, 6 pot Ap set up should suffice for around 4K, also better brake cooling, I have spent sometime looking at ducting on mine, removing the disk splash plate might help.
I have never seen discs much worse than that, personally I wouldn’t use them again and if you can’t afford the 6 pot have a chat with someone who has raced them and get some advice on set up.
As you have found running a modern hot hatch gets expensive on track, they are fine for occasional track use but honestly you are better off getting a dedicated track car, you will constantly compromise.
Since the heat is all in the disc, i just can't see how the AP 6pot (atleast on the 355x32 discs) would improve cooling enough over the girodiscs. The AP's would need ducting too. it's not just an issue i've seen with track rubber as i've ran dunlop RT2, michelin ps4s's and cup2's with the same results
if this ducting attempt fails then the FK2R is going. The heart wants a 500-600hp/ton Atom (although xbow/caterham could work too). maybe go for a heavily tuned lotus depending on prices of it all.
if however, the ducting suceeds, then i'll keep it. who knows how much further i'll take it. cage, APracing brakes, full brace & poly bushes...
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