Track days in supercars?
Discussion
Random one, does anyone regularly do trackdays in a supercar, and if so, what are supercars like as a track day car?
I appreciate supercars are actually pretty heavy things, so will be very expensive on consumables and tyres, but... if you do try and regularly track, say, a v8 ferrari or an audi r8, can they witstand some abuse, or are they very fragile, and need constant maintenance? Or constantly overheat when pushed?
And will they actually be fun to drive on a track? Im used to front engined, rear wheel drive, modest power - which can really be thrashed pretty hard. Would upgrading to mid engined, big power actually be driveable? Normally when theres a supercar on a track like bedford, theyre generally being driven quite gingerly... but can you actually properly use a supercar, on the limit?
I appreciate supercars are actually pretty heavy things, so will be very expensive on consumables and tyres, but... if you do try and regularly track, say, a v8 ferrari or an audi r8, can they witstand some abuse, or are they very fragile, and need constant maintenance? Or constantly overheat when pushed?
And will they actually be fun to drive on a track? Im used to front engined, rear wheel drive, modest power - which can really be thrashed pretty hard. Would upgrading to mid engined, big power actually be driveable? Normally when theres a supercar on a track like bedford, theyre generally being driven quite gingerly... but can you actually properly use a supercar, on the limit?
It all depends on your skill level, the track conditions and your attitude to risk.
If all of the above are average, for arguments sake, you'll be going quite slow. In other words, you need a skilled driver, willing to take a degree of risk, to drive a supercar quickly. Maybe trackday insurance and sticking to dry summer trackdays on "open" tracks where you're not likely to hit anything is the best recipe for fun.
If all of the above are average, for arguments sake, you'll be going quite slow. In other words, you need a skilled driver, willing to take a degree of risk, to drive a supercar quickly. Maybe trackday insurance and sticking to dry summer trackdays on "open" tracks where you're not likely to hit anything is the best recipe for fun.
I’d have thought unless your buying a modern track focused super car such as a GT series Porsche or LT McLaren etc your “run of the mill” Supercar is a bit of a costly choice for track thrills. A Caterham or Atom will be a fraction of the cost (overall inc fuel and consumables) as quick and in most cases quicker!
Plus residuals are superb... makes the generic Supercar a bit redundant on track..
Plus residuals are superb... makes the generic Supercar a bit redundant on track..
Say it is a warm, dry, relatively open track like bedford, donington, silverstone or snetterton. On a normal day i could do 200 on track miles, and then drive home afterwards... could a supercar manage that? Or would it vaporise tyres and brake pads, and then go into limp home mode?
Or are they like all other cars, ie keep an eye on temps, not slide around too much, and they'll be ok?
Or are they like all other cars, ie keep an eye on temps, not slide around too much, and they'll be ok?
brillomaster said:
Say it is a warm, dry, relatively open track like bedford, donington, silverstone or snetterton. On a normal day i could do 200 on track miles, and then drive home afterwards... could a supercar manage that? Or would it vaporise tyres and brake pads, and then go into limp home mode?
Or are they like all other cars, ie keep an eye on temps, not slide around too much, and they'll be ok?
Brakes will be fine with some decent fluid and pads.Tyres, depends on your driving style and tyre compound. And the weight of the car above all.Or are they like all other cars, ie keep an eye on temps, not slide around too much, and they'll be ok?
Is there a particular car that you have in mind?
I imagine you can track most supercars nowadays. Running costs will be your main concern I would say, although a lot of turbocharged cars may suffer overheating issues on warm days. Supercars tend to run bigger wheels than normal cars and therefore finding and fitting suitable trackday tyres will be more expensive than normal.
Also, depending if said car has ceramic brakes or not may mean extra costs too.
Other than that, I can't really see why you wouldn't. I would look into trackday insurance if the car is very valuable.
I imagine you can track most supercars nowadays. Running costs will be your main concern I would say, although a lot of turbocharged cars may suffer overheating issues on warm days. Supercars tend to run bigger wheels than normal cars and therefore finding and fitting suitable trackday tyres will be more expensive than normal.
Also, depending if said car has ceramic brakes or not may mean extra costs too.
Other than that, I can't really see why you wouldn't. I would look into trackday insurance if the car is very valuable.
To be honest i was thinking a nice audi r8, v8 manual. Thats gotta be on 18s, 19s at best, so tyres no more expensive than most bmw 3 series really.
But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
Edited by brillomaster on Monday 14th December 20:12
brillomaster said:
To be honest i was thinking a nice audi r8, v8 manual. Thats gotta be on 18s, 19s at best, so tyres no more expensive than most bmw 3 series really.
But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
Plenty of sports cars on track. The R8 is exactly that, not a supercar. At £35k for a cheap one, insurance is going to be cheap enough for your needs. I'd be more concerned about reliability at that price. For £35k there's better sports cars out there. Tyres should be the biggest cost on a big car like that, then pads and fuel. It's a heavy car and if you're not a regular trackdayer you'll probably be harder on the brakes than you realise. But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
Edited by brillomaster on Monday 14th December 20:12
brillomaster said:
To be honest i was thinking a nice audi r8, v8 manual. Thats gotta be on 18s, 19s at best, so tyres no more expensive than most bmw 3 series really.
But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
Would be an interesting project! Wonder how much weight could be saved on a R8...?But try and avoid ceramic brakes, fancy magneto dampers or complicated gearboxes... just steel brakes, plain suspension and a clutch. And hopefully a reliable audi engine.
And yes, even the cheapest r8 at 35grand would be insured. A £3k beemer i dont bother with insurance, but £35k is a big step up!
Edited by brillomaster on Monday 14th December 20:12
But don’t be disheartened when a leased golf R passes you .... you have that glorious V8!
Last super car track day I was at a Lotus Evora was the fastest thing there, closely followed by a 488. Lamborghini’s and R8’s were quite a bit slower, Astons, which to be fair are GT cars were on a par with the Audi R8 V10’s,
McLarens were scarce, so maybe just not as well driven or committed.
A DB11 cooked its brakes, but sorted itself out.
Nothing broke.
McLarens were scarce, so maybe just not as well driven or committed.
A DB11 cooked its brakes, but sorted itself out.
Nothing broke.
Trackdayer said:
What's your goal on a trackday OP?
To be the fastest?
To have the most fun?
To not spend a lot of money?
To not take big risks?
If it's any of those, a supercar probably isn't your best bet.
If the badge is the overiding factor in doing a trackday then of course, only a supercar will do.
ha, its not to necessarily be the fastest - as mentioned around most tracks that'd either be a quick caterham, an atom or maybe a radical... or a lotus/vx220, but none of those really appeal to me, and can really only be used for trackdays (never get the wife in one for a weekend away)To be the fastest?
To have the most fun?
To not spend a lot of money?
To not take big risks?
If it's any of those, a supercar probably isn't your best bet.
If the badge is the overiding factor in doing a trackday then of course, only a supercar will do.
and its not to not spend a lot of money - done that route already with a cheap BMW.
the goal is really, to drive something partway exotic... sure a lighter, cheaper 4 cylinder car would be arguably better, but... its the lure of really opening the taps on a big power, V8 or V10 engined car, ideally manual, on a track. Sure it wouldnt be the fastest thing through the corners, but by gum it'd be the most fun down the straights. i'd love a go in a proper GT3 racecar, but sadly, i dont have rich enough parents for that.
i guess cheaper options that would perhaps still fit the bill would be more sports GT cars - nissan 370z, porsche 911s, BMW E92 M3 (the one with the V8...), maybe a V10 engined M6.
For your budget I'd be going down the Evora route to be honest, it'll handle better, be kinder on consumables and would be just as nice for normal drives as an R8 to keep the wife happy. Or, if you want slightly more comfort and mod-cons then the nicest Cayman you can get for the money.
I wouldn't really consider tracking any car where I was precious about the paintwork or the residual value, or that was expensive enough to repair that I felt I needed to insure it. I'd end up driving around at eight tenths.
The think I still miss about my Caterham race car is that I could turn up and properly 'ave it. If I went a bit wide I wasn't worried about pebble dashing it. I'm not worried about rubber marks on the paint. Brakes are not a concern- pads once a year. Tyres last several days. Nothing to do except set the tyre pressures and maybe tinker with the anti-roll bars.
The think I still miss about my Caterham race car is that I could turn up and properly 'ave it. If I went a bit wide I wasn't worried about pebble dashing it. I'm not worried about rubber marks on the paint. Brakes are not a concern- pads once a year. Tyres last several days. Nothing to do except set the tyre pressures and maybe tinker with the anti-roll bars.
Was at Bedford on Sat in my 570s, v wet and a huge amount of fun. In the first 2 hours the power didn't make a huge diff and was probably a hindrance as traction was non existent (same for everyone of course) but once it dried out a bit and I got more confident with the conditions I was happy to press on. Brake pad and tyre wear seems reasonable I also had it at the ring for a double header in the summer. I tend to push harder at Bedford as its much safer than the ring if you make a mistake but even at 8/10s the car is plenty quick enough to enjoy on the Nordschleife. Back straight at Bedford and the main straight at the ring you can get a proper lick on...186mph at the ring this yr. Normally I do 3/4 track days a yr (2 at the ring and 1 or 2 at Bedford) and had a pre track day inspection with McLaren before the ring trip. For me taking something fairly special on track is part of the appeal but I dont get track cover anymore as given the excesses are v high you really have to write the car off for it to be worthwhile.
Ha sadly not... if i could afford to buy a mega money supercar, i could probably afford to replace the tyres and brakes every trackday too.
with regards to the audi R8, i've seen this video and it looks... lively! and at the risk of stating the obvious, it also looks noticeably faster than cars with 250bhp - 300bhp (BMW 130i, Porsche Cayman S) it even makes a BMW E92 M3 look pedestrian. And thats only the V8, cant imagine how fast the V10 would be! Does look gorgeous inside, proper experience with the manual... hmm...
with regards to the audi R8, i've seen this video and it looks... lively! and at the risk of stating the obvious, it also looks noticeably faster than cars with 250bhp - 300bhp (BMW 130i, Porsche Cayman S) it even makes a BMW E92 M3 look pedestrian. And thats only the V8, cant imagine how fast the V10 would be! Does look gorgeous inside, proper experience with the manual... hmm...
Not really a track day aficionado, but I've done a couple recently and honestly my conclusion remains that of if you're going to track it, buy a race car. I was at Goodwood last month and I reckon there was more oil on the circuit (from the old D types, Cobras etc) than in the lubricants aisle of Halfords. Plus, the noise meters just suck the joy out of it. So independent of the wear and tear costs of doing it, my view is an ex-race car is the way to go.
Have you considered just doing the odd experience day, you can then drive all manor of exotic cars, and you dont have any risk, and you can do ones that last the whole day, and give you the option to drive 5 or 6 cars.
Then spend the money on something fun for the track to do whenever you want.
Then spend the money on something fun for the track to do whenever you want.
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