Track days in supercars?

Track days in supercars?

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320d is all you need

2,114 posts

42 months

Wednesday 16th December 2020
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Smurfsarepeopletoo said:
Have you considered just doing the odd experience day, you can then drive all manor of exotic cars, and you dont have any risk, and you can do ones that last the whole day, and give you the option to drive 5 or 6 cars.

Then spend the money on something fun for the track to do whenever you want.
Have you done one?

Changing gear at 5000rpm. No higher than 4th gear etc.

Of course people can do what they want but why buy a Supercar and not track it... After all that's what it was designed for smile

I guess for many unfortunately cars are not things to be used and enjoyed but investment piece always with 1 eye on resale value.

UTH

8,865 posts

177 months

Wednesday 16th December 2020
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456mgt said:
Not really a track day aficionado, but I've done a couple recently and honestly my conclusion remains that of if you're going to track it, buy a race car. I was at Goodwood last month and I reckon there was more oil on the circuit (from the old D types, Cobras etc) than in the lubricants aisle of Halfords. Plus, the noise meters just suck the joy out of it. So independent of the wear and tear costs of doing it, my view is an ex-race car is the way to go.
I own a C7 Corvette z06 (most people agree it's not a genuine supercar, but it's certainly not lacking in the power and performance) and I have taken it around Goodwood a few times. It's an awesome machine, and I do love being able to take such a great car on track.....but I totally agree that the noise meters do ruin my fun slightly. At full chat I do break the driveby limit, so just when you'd really want to put your foot to the floor, I'm having to hold back for fear of a black flag, which really does take the shine off.

Sadly, I don't think there's a trackday in the UK where I'd be fine to go at full pelt with no issues in that department.

Rob_R

2,428 posts

244 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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I say that if you want to get an R8 and track it then do so!

Be prepared for higher running costs than a normal car and also be prepared for higher running costs than a road-only use R8 but you'll have a blast.

Do some of the bigger European circuits and you'll be flying. R8s make great arrive and drive track cars with some tweaks.

Maybe join one of the R8 or Audi forums and speak to owners who track them regularly to get a better idea of what they are like to live with given your usage requirements.

HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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320d is all you need said:
Interesting approach when asked the mileage of a car you're selling to reply "it's irrelevant" and to not offer an answer, I must try that one hehe

105k visible on the clock in one of the photos

You can bet the gearbox etc has never been opened...

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

59 months

Thursday 17th December 2020
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brillomaster said:
Random one, does anyone regularly do trackdays in a supercar, and if so, what are supercars like as a track day car?

I appreciate supercars are actually pretty heavy things, so will be very expensive on consumables and tyres, but... if you do try and regularly track, say, a v8 ferrari or an audi r8, can they witstand some abuse, or are they very fragile, and need constant maintenance? Or constantly overheat when pushed?

And will they actually be fun to drive on a track? Im used to front engined, rear wheel drive, modest power - which can really be thrashed pretty hard. Would upgrading to mid engined, big power actually be driveable? Normally when theres a supercar on a track like bedford, theyre generally being driven quite gingerly... but can you actually properly use a supercar, on the limit?
I took my R8 Plus to Brands last winter, and had a great time there. I drive it pretty hard all day, and although it was clearly a bit heavy, it cooled really well. I was happy to push it very hard, and it was plenty fast enough to not be getting in the way of the track day specials.

I’ve a McLaren 650s now, and was due to do Silverstone GP circuit last week which unfortunately was cancelled. I think Brands Indy wouldn’t be the greatest fun, it needs a higher speed track to get the best from it.

ukkid35

6,138 posts

172 months

Tuesday 22nd December 2020
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UTH said:
Sadly, I don't think there's a trackday in the UK where I'd be fine to go at full pelt with no issues in that department.
I doubt you'd have any issues at Anglesey

When the weather is good, the views are as good as the driving experience


MDL111

6,895 posts

176 months

Tuesday 22nd December 2020
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Tracked my Scuderia a fair bit before buying the Challenge this year. Worked very well after I had the geo changed to more track biased settings.

I got kicked off a day once for noise (was a quiet day and I didn’t have much time so did one stint - which I knew would be my last one anyway - without Short shifting at c 7.5k, which in the end was too loud). No other issues

I really enjoyed it and will still probably use it when I don’t want to trailer to the track (e.g going to sth like Spa, which would take absolute ages at max 100 kph)

jeff666

2,314 posts

190 months

Tuesday 22nd December 2020
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320d is all you need said:
Sold for 27K,


A lot of car for not a lot of money.

_Leg_

2,798 posts

210 months

Wednesday 23rd December 2020
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Exige S3 V6. This is the way.






S1M VP

949 posts

233 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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To the OP ...

As said in someone else’s post, for track driving and pushing hard, there is no substitute for a properly set-up race car ..

I run & race a 488 Challenge, which is simply epic to drive on track, 700bhp, on slicks, some downforce etc .. it’s just brilliant. BUT (and it’s a big but) the downside is the costs are eye watering.

It’s not road legal so needs to be transported, it hasn’t got door locks or handbrake etc and has a race refuelling system, so it really needs 2 technicians to run the car for the day. It eats through brake pads and tyres (rear pads often only last 1 day and if pushing hard and running some good stints, can go through 2 sets of slick tyres in a day). In all honesty, it is wasted on Trackdays given that most organisers only allow overtaking on the left (on the straights) and it’s almost impossible to get a full clean lap in and track days usually have a LOT of cars running. It also chews through control arms, bushes, uprights, hub assemblies etc, so running costs & maintenance costs are high, especially if hitting the curbs hard. The car shares many parts with its road going cousin, so I’d imagine running a 458/488 would be equally costly to run, if doing long days and lots of mileage.

Road Cars:

I did a trackday last year at Brands Hatch on the GP circuit in my 488 Spider.
I drove it fairly hard and hit the brakes hard, like I would the challenge car.
The car was brilliant in all respects, despite running the normal road spec setup and road tyres. I didn’t have anyone there to help, hadn’t had the car checked beforehand and I didn’t even mess too much with the tyre pressures.
It ran faultlessly, although I was black flagged for noise (108dB flyby) in the first of 4x 20 min sessions, so I had to miss the 2nd session to try to do ‘something’ (ended up running in wet mode and short-shifting in session 3 & 4, to avoid being kicked off circuit, although it somehow found itself back in “race mode” in the 2nd half of session 4). It wasn’t until I got home the next day, that I realised I’d cooked the brake callipers (they were nice & shiny yellow before the day, but ended up being burnt orange) and there were lots of black rubber marks all over the bonnet which took some getting off. Thankfully the car has full PPF. I absolutely loved driving the car, but this day proved that track driving is not kind on cars and noise limits can be a real pain.

I took my 720s to Snetterton for a days running.
The car was stupid fast compared to most other cars on track, especially down the straights, and it drove well, but occasionally during the day, the car seemed to limit the amount of power it’d give me mid-way through a session. Not sure why exactly, and there were no alarm messages, so a bit of a mystery ... Maybe it was just getting too hot. I’ve only done the one day in this car and pads & tyres were fine after, but I would have concerns about how tough the car is, so wouldn’t want to do many track days in it.

I took my Piloti to the SCD event at Donington and couldn’t say no, when offered a session on track. I have the carbon rims, but also have a set of the standard wheels which I bought, planning to take the car on a few trackdays.
The car had less than 200mls on it at the time as I’d only just picked it up, and I hadn’t swapped the wheels over, so I took it fairly easy.
The car was quick on the straights, but the setup felt surprisingly soft in the corners and I didn’t trust it - it felt like snap oversteer could be an issue if I pushed too hard. It would need a track biased geo setup, but I’ve now decided that I won’t be tracking that car, because I’m too precious over it. Not because of the cars capabilities, but more-so the risk of damage and adding lots of mileage will hammer the value of the car, which defeats the object.

I did a track day in a Cayman GT4 Clubsport last week at Snetterton, which is a race car and ran perfectly all day, but it again really needs a team to run it, but it is an awesome piece of kit. I suppose if you’re handy, have the right kit and a means of transporting it, the patience and inclination to do it yourself, you could run it for a day with a friends help, but it’s a lot of hassle. The balance was really good, so I can certtainly see why road-going Caymans are so popular for trackday cars.

The point of explaining all the above, is that if you’re too precious about whatever car you’re driving, or the running costs become a burden, you may end up not enjoying it as much as you would driving a different car.

For all these reasons, I’ve just bought a GT3RS specifically for Trackdays (although now I’ve driven it on the road, it’s brilliant on the road too).
My logic was to have a fairly quick car, that I can push hard and one that’s (hopefully) tough enough to take it without having to replace suspension parts after every 1-2 days of running. I wanted a car that I was not overly precious about adding mileage etc, a car which I can refuel myself and drive to the track and back, just to have some fun with my mates. I know it’ll never be as quick as a race car, but the purpose of this car is to have a fun trackday car, rather than setting the best possible lap time.
Only time will tell if I’ve made the right choice ... if I still feel too precious over it, I’ll change it for something a lot cheaper.

I can’t comment on the R8, as I’ve never driven one, but whichever car you end up going for ... I wouldn’t be so concerned over engine & gearbox mileage etc (providing it’s been properly maintained), just bear in mind that wishbones, joints, discs, pads, etc are all costly items in any Supercar or high end Sports Car (and that’s if you don’t bin it into a barrier, gravel etc and cause damage). Just because the car is £35k and has done most of its depreciating, replacement parts will be based on its new value and big bills may end up spoiling the overall experience, but that’s something only you can decide on.

Again, as someone else posted, also consider which track(s) you’re most likely to drive. For example, the challenge car is epic on longer tracks like Silverstone GP, but on shorter tracks like Brands Indy, it’s too fast and can’t be properly opened up.

Hope some of the above helps.

Good luck!

UTH

8,865 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Interesting insight above.

Makes my eyes water thinking about rinsing through a set of pads in one day though! I mean, you must be doing some very impressive driving/speeds etc, but it must be pretty depressing turning up to a day knowing you're going to be spending £X on pads and tyres each time.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

59 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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I’m hoping to get to Silverstone in my 650s in the spring, but although I think that it’ll be well suited to the track it’s far more about learning the car than about seeing how fast it can get round.

This means I’m happy to lift and coast, that I don’t need to hammer the herbs, and that there’s hopefully only a small chance of me rolling it over a barrier.

For me a “fast” track day isn’t a thing. I’ll push my Riad car to the limit all day, but if I want to time myself I’d attend a proper test day in a proper racing car.

Trackdayer

1,090 posts

40 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
I don’t need to hammer the herbs
Don't dismiss it. I find a quick toke before a trackday calms me down a lot.

lawrywild

157 posts

61 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Interesting topic as I have been thinking about getting a 570S and taking it on trackdays (nothing too extreme maybe 5-10 a year). I assumed track day insurance would be the biggest cost. Are the pre/post trackday checks really a necessary expense (ignoring the aspect of maintaining manufacturer warranty)? Obviously it will eat through tyres, pads and fuel given the weight and pace but that's basically any car on track. Rotors I'd replace with steels all round from a 540C.

Alfa 4C with some basic mods is what I currently use and it's pretty great as a track day car. Track day insurance isn't too bad when purchased in bulk. Light weight. Independents to look after it. Consumables are cheap. If I don't go down the 570S route then I would look to modify the 4C further to improve it's performance.

I only have 1 parking space so anything I buy has to be able to do both road and track.

Edited by lawrywild on Thursday 24th December 12:51

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

59 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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lawrywild said:
Interesting topic as I have been thinking about getting a 570S and taking it on trackdays (nothing too extreme maybe 5-10 a year). I assumed track day insurance would be the biggest cost. Are the pre/post trackday checks really a necessary expense (ignoring the aspect of maintaining manufacturer warranty)? Obviously it will eat through tyres, pads and fuel given the weight and pace but that's basically any car on track. Rotors I'd replace with steels all round from a 540C.
For my 650s I’ll not be having it inspected before or after, or taking out insurance.

Why are you thinking of changing the brakes?

UTH

8,865 posts

177 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
For my 650s I’ll not be having it inspected before or after, or taking out insurance.

Why are you thinking of changing the brakes?
Guessing he'll be swapping out carbon ceramics?

MY Corvette has Ceramics.....I'm told it'll be about £20k+ to replace them! So if I was planning on lots of track days I'd probably look to swap them out for steel.

lawrywild

157 posts

61 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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Kent Border Kenny said:
For my 650s I’ll not be having it inspected before or after, or taking out insurance.

Why are you thinking of changing the brakes?
I always purchase insurance, that's a no brainer for me. Personally I would never risk being out of pocket the whole value of a supercar for the sake of saving a few hundred each time I track the car. You can always drive within your limits etc on a track day and "not push it" but you can never account for somebody else being stupid or driving over an oil/coolant spill etc.

Watch this to explain what I mean... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E68awxZC3Nk (Imagine you were the uninsured Huayra driver..)

As for brakes, I don't fancy the price of new carbon ceramic rotors. Take them off, store them in my house somewhere for re-sale, and fit and run steels during my ownership (or just buy a 540C you'd provably say - but I actually want a convertible i.e. 570S Spider).


Edited by lawrywild on Thursday 24th December 12:59

lawrywild

157 posts

61 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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UTH said:
Guessing he'll be swapping out carbon ceramics?

MY Corvette has Ceramics.....I'm told it'll be about £20k+ to replace them! So if I was planning on lots of track days I'd probably look to swap them out for steel.
Exactly. I read they last 15-20 trackdays combined with some road use? That's extremely expensive on a per trackday basis.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

59 months

Thursday 24th December 2020
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UTH said:
Guessing he'll be swapping out carbon ceramics?

MY Corvette has Ceramics.....I'm told it'll be about £20k+ to replace them! So if I was planning on lots of track days I'd probably look to swap them out for steel.
It just seems a strange way round to do it. The whole point is that they are far less prone to fade, so it seems a shame to put the better brakes on in the environment that they are least needed.