Opinions... Trackday, was I treated fairly?

[Kawasicki]

Tobermory said:

Just got back from a 2 day track day at Anglesey with a range of cars of very different performance. Not a single incident, no temper tantrums and respectful driving. It is possible.

https://youtu.be/cFvC8ASspZg

Time to move on Kellerman

You gained on that Ariel Atom quickly, and he seemed to not let you past.

[porterpainter]

Watched the video and read the comments.

I’m surprised the TDO allowed that sort of behaviour. Puts me off booking track days with Javelin if they are allowing this style of driving (by allowing the OP to continue on track).

[RB Will]

porterpainter said:

Watched the video and read the comments.

I’m surprised the TDO allowed that sort of behaviour. Puts me off booking track days with Javelin if they are allowing this style of driving (by allowing the OP to continue on track).

In fairness to the TDO they did have a word, presumably would have black flagged if behaviour persisted, dunno if the warning in this case came from marshal observations or from other participants complaining. Either way giving a warning within a few laps is not bad. Javelin are normally pretty good about enforcing rules. I've been black flagged for noise pretty rapidly and for having a helmet mounted cam.

Kawasicki said:

Tobermory said:

Just got back from a 2 day track day at Anglesey with a range of cars of very different performance. Not a single incident, no temper tantrums and respectful driving. It is possible.

https://youtu.be/cFvC8ASspZg

Time to move on Kellerman

You gained on that Ariel Atom quickly, and he seemed to not let you past.

I dont know if it was a private day or if Ariel / BAC owners just had a group met on a normal day but there were a lot of them there then so suspect there was some familiarity between the drivers, they swap positions a few times in the vid. Ive done things before with mates on track that would look a bit dodgy out of context like guiding them around or following them and filming them, either way would look like one of us was blocking for a couple of laps.

[Gary C]

Kellerman said:

Gary C said:

Given its a public forum I'm surprised your surprised by some of the responses but ultimately if you read between the lines, you were treated very fairly and seem unable to accept that ?

I don't think I was, for the reasons I've laid out.

You overtook at least one car on the outside, from the apex and before the corner completed trusting that they had seen you ?

Fine for a race, overly aggressive for a track day.

[Dixie]

Has Kellerman mentioned what other trackdays races he's got booked for this year? It'd be great to see the master at work.

Edited by Dixie on Monday 27th June 12:39

[anonymous-user]

RB Will said:

porterpainter said:

Watched the video and read the comments.

I’m surprised the TDO allowed that sort of behaviour. Puts me off booking track days with Javelin if they are allowing this style of driving (by allowing the OP to continue on track).

In fairness to the TDO they did have a word, presumably would have black flagged if behaviour persisted, dunno if the warning in this case came from marshal observations or from other participants complaining. Either way giving a warning within a few laps is not bad. Javelin are normally pretty good about enforcing rules. I've been black flagged for noise pretty rapidly and for having a helmet mounted cam.

Kawasicki said:

Tobermory said:

Just got back from a 2 day track day at Anglesey with a range of cars of very different performance. Not a single incident, no temper tantrums and respectful driving. It is possible.

https://youtu.be/cFvC8ASspZg

Time to move on Kellerman

You gained on that Ariel Atom quickly, and he seemed to not let you past.

I dont know if it was a private day or if Ariel / BAC owners just had a group met on a normal day but there were a lot of them there then so suspect there was some familiarity between the drivers, they swap positions a few times in the vid. Ive done things before with mates on track that would look a bit dodgy out of context like guiding them around or following them and filming them, either way would look like one of us was blocking for a couple of laps.

Yes, this, to be fair it was a private day, but not everyone knew each other beforehand. The point is that you can be in the most powerful car around and sometimes slower than others for any number of reasons. With a bit of consideration everyone has a better and safer time. The Atom was not blocking at all from where I was sitting, just driving well and as soon as I was in a reasonable position to overtake, he let me past.

[ro250]

This has been an interesting thread to read.

I have no track expertise so will refrain on that (although thought playing in-car music on a trackday was mighty odd) but interesting that in the video the OP was polite and humble when told of the black flag but online adopts a very different persona!

[RB Will]

He wasn’t that humble during the telling off laughing at everyone else being so slow

[Dixie]

ro250 said:

(although thought playing in-car music on a trackday was mighty odd)

Diesel Power by the Prodigy. You know, because he's in a diesel but his immense talent makes him still loads faster than all the others.

[CarCrazyDad]

RB Will said:

He wasn’t that humble during the telling off laughing at everyone else being so slow

He was nice enough to the steward but the minute the window went up, out came Mr Biggun again

Sums up, armchair warrior

[Dibbles00]

Sad thing is there are many tw++s that's drive like this on track days. Hanging off people's bumpers, overtaking on corners, dive bombing (they call it bullying people out of the way). A lot of TDO's turn a blind eye to it - even when reporting drivers who do such things. That's why people do it. Absolute co++ heads.

Track days are for fun. Want to be a race driver, get a race license and enter a race series. Don't endanger yourself or others. Not to mention the possibility of damage to vehicles should contact occur.

Just wait for drivers to move over, chill and enjoy the day. Agressive driving on a track day is not necessary, so just keep it smooth. Learn from it and move on.

Edited by Dibbles00 on Monday 27th June 18:28

[mmm-five]

Dixie said:

Has Kellerman mentioned what other trackdays races he's got booked for this year? It'd be great to see the master at work.

I think he's been asked to give some expert advice to the amateurs at Silverstone this weekend.

They'll either kick Max out of the car or let him drive the safety car!

[anonymous-user]

Kellerman said:

pablo said:

Suck it up buttercup. You put the video up, you invited the criticism, you didn’t like the response. You’ve been here three months and you’re giving advice on how to make the place better?!

Even if I had been here 3 months, that wouldn't disqualify me from an opinion on the nastiness of PH. An opinion echoed by others.

And FYI you have no way of knowing how long I've been on here, only how long this particular login has been registered for.

Off you flounce then, be sure to let us all know your next username in advance though we’ll probably work out who it is when you return…

[HustleRussell]

Did anyone say ‘ham-fisted’?

[QBee]

I have read about 4 pages of this thread and then watched the video with the sound turned off after the first 10 seconds.
In my personal opinion I thought his approach was reasonable for the first 8 and a half minutes, and then from about 8:40 the overtaking in and after the Corkscrew, and then just after the start finish straight, became a little close to the margins of normal track day rules/etiquette.

But it was on some occasions hard to see from the video if in fact the cars being overtaken were aware of his presence and were making room for the overtakes. You get more of a sense of that when you are in the car on track. I find that you do get people who see you coming and try to be too accommodating, indicating while in the bends - I think the OP was perhaps sometimes taking their indications at face value regardless of location on the track, rather than thinking that perhaps he should wait a tad longer.

Most of the "being rather close" in corners looked to me to be more of a case of carrying speed in an under-powered car, ready to overtake after the corner.
I didn't watch the TDO's advice section of the video, but a quiet word asking for a little more consideration for others would seem to me to be in order - everyone there had paid their money and had every reason to expect others to follow the spirit of the rules and not be too close and/or overtaking in braking zones or turn in areas.

[generationx]

Dibbles00 said:

Sad thing is there are many tw++s that's drive like this on track days. Hanging off people's bumpers, overtaking on corners, dive bombing (they call it bullying people out of the way). A lot of TDO's turn a blind eye to it - even when reporting drivers who do such things. That's why people do it. Absolute co++ heads.

Track days are for fun. Want to be a race driver, get a race license and enter a race series. Don't endanger yourself or others. Not to mention the possibility of damage to vehicles should contact occur.

Just wait for drivers to move over, chill and enjoy the day. Agressive driving on a track day is not necessary, so just keep it smooth. Learn from it and move on.

Edited by Dibbles00 on Monday 27th June 18:28

/sidenote: Top lurking!

[Gouki]

If that's truly a standard A4 estate diesel, on all season rubber and regular brakes the pace of the other cars is shocking. Regardless of driving technique, etiquette, attitude and choice of music which are all subjective.

Having done only two days at Anglesey, and many different trackdays across Europe and now in the US, videos like this make the session style trackday
more applicable depending on overall pace. For example at Laguna Seca, different groups need to run different laptimes in open traffic, sometimes you're even gridded after the first session based on best lap to minimize traffic.

Though I preferred the laid back european open pit lane style, the same complaint will likely be found on another thread where a track day is being used as a inexpensive test day and a race car is getting held up by an Audi diesel estate blasting prodigy!

You were the hero for that trackday OP, but might be the mobile chicane at another day. Try an RMA day at Silverstone for fun.

[Tommie38]

I haven’t read all 200 pages of this thread, but I wonder how many of the people on this track day were not prepared to get out of the way because they didn’t want to be passed by a diesel Audi.

Regardless of the OPs many talents or lack thereof, there are plenty of people with egos on track days. I wouldn’t assume everybody else in the video is a saint.

[RB Will]

Did you even watch the video? Nobody ego blocked him.

[fred bloggs]

The question is why would you pay good money for a trackday, to drive in that car ?