Opinions... Trackday, was I treated fairly?
Discussion
Kellerman said:
Hi all,
I'd like some feedback on a trackday at Anglesey following a black flag incident.
many did this for other cars. I also spent 3 whole laps up close behind a Caterfield as an experiment and it would not move. Is that fair?
This isn't a pop at the TDO I am just trying to make sense of it all and learn from it. Admittedly my patience could be better, but it's hard to overtake on the big straights when I'm in a lardy diesel estate. Stupid car to track, I know.
Video here
Did you hear the bit where he said look in your mirrors when people catch you? That means they're quicker than you.I'd like some feedback on a trackday at Anglesey following a black flag incident.
many did this for other cars. I also spent 3 whole laps up close behind a Caterfield as an experiment and it would not move. Is that fair?
This isn't a pop at the TDO I am just trying to make sense of it all and learn from it. Admittedly my patience could be better, but it's hard to overtake on the big straights when I'm in a lardy diesel estate. Stupid car to track, I know.
Video here
Edited by Kellerman on Friday 17th June 00:28
You see the line on the pit exit? You are not supposed to cross it, that's because there are people coming round the track who you could hit, or even worse, someone driving like you who comes right across it when lapping.
jsf said:
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
I'll stick my head above the paraqpet here and say that I don't think the driving was too bad..assuming it wasn't a novice day.
The circuit doesn't help but the other cars looked to be driving a lot slower than I would have expected and the OP didn't appear to be doing anythng dangerous.
I do bike track days which are split by ability groups, the general rule for novice group is no overtaking on the inside of a corner when the lead bike is close to tipping in and keep a couple of meters away, but out-braking for an overtake is standard stuff. The higher groups is less regimented and contacts can and do occassionally occurr.
Those are not the rules for a car trackday.The circuit doesn't help but the other cars looked to be driving a lot slower than I would have expected and the OP didn't appear to be doing anythng dangerous.
I do bike track days which are split by ability groups, the general rule for novice group is no overtaking on the inside of a corner when the lead bike is close to tipping in and keep a couple of meters away, but out-braking for an overtake is standard stuff. The higher groups is less regimented and contacts can and do occassionally occurr.
I don't know anything useful about track days or racing. I've also not read the whole of this thread, I skipped some of the middle.
I think the interesting bit is the OP's attitude.
You have very clearly come to this situation with a firm idea that you're in the right, looking for validation rather than understanding. Why didn't others do this, why were others doing that, etc. - but not actually as questions, as complaints.
The problem is that, whether you're justified or not, you are the outlier. The other drivers behaved a particular way and on your next track day whoever is there will be behaving the same again. The marshals will have the same rules and expectations. Whatever people of the internet say to occasionally back you up, you will still be the odd one out in a dangerous environment. On the public road and surely on track too this is ripe for an accident.
You can learn from this, make concessions and adapt so that you fit in, probably still fulfilling a lot of your own goals without causing friction. Or you can continue to defend your position and remain stuck with the unenjoyable consequences of that.
PH is a pretty poor environment for you to do that learning. It's full of aggressive, argumentative characters who make for a hostile environment and very defensive responses. I get it. Better options exist for this. But I'm concerned you haven't actually taken anything onboard here, and also that even elsewhere, the tone that you adopt is not going to lead to others meaningfully helping you.
I think the interesting bit is the OP's attitude.
You have very clearly come to this situation with a firm idea that you're in the right, looking for validation rather than understanding. Why didn't others do this, why were others doing that, etc. - but not actually as questions, as complaints.
The problem is that, whether you're justified or not, you are the outlier. The other drivers behaved a particular way and on your next track day whoever is there will be behaving the same again. The marshals will have the same rules and expectations. Whatever people of the internet say to occasionally back you up, you will still be the odd one out in a dangerous environment. On the public road and surely on track too this is ripe for an accident.
You can learn from this, make concessions and adapt so that you fit in, probably still fulfilling a lot of your own goals without causing friction. Or you can continue to defend your position and remain stuck with the unenjoyable consequences of that.
PH is a pretty poor environment for you to do that learning. It's full of aggressive, argumentative characters who make for a hostile environment and very defensive responses. I get it. Better options exist for this. But I'm concerned you haven't actually taken anything onboard here, and also that even elsewhere, the tone that you adopt is not going to lead to others meaningfully helping you.
trashbat said:
I don't know anything useful about track days or racing. I've also not read the whole of this thread, I skipped some of the middle.
I think the interesting bit is the OP's attitude.
You have very clearly come to this situation with a firm idea that you're in the right, looking for validation rather than understanding. Why didn't others do this, why were others doing that, etc. - but not actually as questions, as complaints.
The problem is that, whether you're justified or not, you are the outlier. The other drivers behaved a particular way and on your next track day whoever is there will be behaving the same again. The marshals will have the same rules and expectations. Whatever people of the internet say to occasionally back you up, you will still be the odd one out in a dangerous environment. On the public road and surely on track too this is ripe for an accident.
You can learn from this, make concessions and adapt so that you fit in, probably still fulfilling a lot of your own goals without causing friction. Or you can continue to defend your position and remain stuck with the unenjoyable consequences of that.
PH is a pretty poor environment for you to do that learning. It's full of aggressive, argumentative characters who make for a hostile environment and very defensive responses. I get it. Better options exist for this. But I'm concerned you haven't actually taken anything onboard here, and also that even elsewhere, the tone that you adopt is not going to lead to others meaningfully helping you.
Listen to what the marshal said to him at end. He clearly didn't understand that people catching him means they're faster than him despite him being a 'driving hero in an A4', that's part of the reason he got black flagged. His attitude and driving is sI think the interesting bit is the OP's attitude.
You have very clearly come to this situation with a firm idea that you're in the right, looking for validation rather than understanding. Why didn't others do this, why were others doing that, etc. - but not actually as questions, as complaints.
The problem is that, whether you're justified or not, you are the outlier. The other drivers behaved a particular way and on your next track day whoever is there will be behaving the same again. The marshals will have the same rules and expectations. Whatever people of the internet say to occasionally back you up, you will still be the odd one out in a dangerous environment. On the public road and surely on track too this is ripe for an accident.
You can learn from this, make concessions and adapt so that you fit in, probably still fulfilling a lot of your own goals without causing friction. Or you can continue to defend your position and remain stuck with the unenjoyable consequences of that.
PH is a pretty poor environment for you to do that learning. It's full of aggressive, argumentative characters who make for a hostile environment and very defensive responses. I get it. Better options exist for this. But I'm concerned you haven't actually taken anything onboard here, and also that even elsewhere, the tone that you adopt is not going to lead to others meaningfully helping you.
t and another good reason to avoid chavlin days with these type of bellends on the circuit. (Cheap days attract these sort of thick chavs)trashbat said:
Yeah, I heard it. I thought the complaint about everyone else being slow was revealing, and a large reason I wrote the above.
I agree with you, it is very unlikely he is listening to anything useful within this thread and most of the replies are quite hostile/aggressive/harsh.The ironic thing is that he is also holding people up whilst overtaking people regularly in the braking zones (clearly drivers who are not fast/confident on track), they have as much right to enjoy the day as the OP.
The comment he made of: 'I don't care if they chuck me off now' was all very telling to a stinking attitude. OP, if you listen to some of the good advice here, get a lighter car, you could have some great battles with people. Just pass people who allow you to and make it clear they're letting you past rather than getting frustrated with 'everyone being slow' when actually holding people up yourself. Oh, you could always try an RMA day and see how well you do
jm8403 said:
good reason to avoid chavlin days with these type of bellends on the circuit. (Cheap days attract these sort of thick chavs)
Several times I have heard people say this or similar & I think you are wrong.Price does not rule out idiocy at any level.
I have never seen any higher level of poor driving at any cost of day from £99 to £650.
The most arrogant/ignorant/costly I came across was a guy who was clearly the Stig, arrived with a (guessing here) +£70k fully race prepped Skyline GTR which apparently had near 1000hp.
He arrived & let his pit-crew set the car up while he went to the briefing with his mate, they talked all the way through the briefing because they knew it all, did the sighting laps aggressively "worrying" the car in front & then when they went out on the first lap (Cadwell) stuffed the car going into the mountain........ Didn't even manage 1 full lap.......
jm8403 said:
The ironic thing is that he is also holding people up whilst overtaking people regularly in the braking zones (clearly drivers who are not fast/confident on track), they have as much right to enjoy the day as the OP.
Well the OP does say he can count on one hand the number of times he's been overtaken on the track.E-bmw said:
Several times I have heard people say this or similar & I think you are wrong.
Price does not rule out idiocy at any level.
I have never seen any higher level of poor driving at any cost of day from £99 to £650.
The most arrogant/ignorant/costly I came across was a guy who was clearly the Stig, arrived with a (guessing here) +£70k fully race prepped Skyline GTR which apparently had near 1000hp.
He arrived & let his pit-crew set the car up while he went to the briefing with his mate, they talked all the way through the briefing because they knew it all, did the sighting laps aggressively "worrying" the car in front & then when they went out on the first lap (Cadwell) stuffed the car going into the mountain........ Didn't even manage 1 full lap.......
I don't think the answer is binary. Agree you get bellends in both but different organisers react differently to poor driving. Club / marque specific days such as lotus and porsche only tend to be much more courteous from my experience and bad driving gets one warning only. Agree you can still get throbbers wish cash too but those days tend to have less cars in total such as RSR days at Spa/N-ring and so you encounter then less, similar with goldtrack. I have seen the types you mention with all the gear and no idea also but in general, lots of these guys/the majority care more about their Pride and joy (which is why I think porsche/lotus is much better behaved as it's probably 1 of 4 cars rather than money no object idiots which is 1 ferrari/GTR/radical of 100 cars)Price does not rule out idiocy at any level.
I have never seen any higher level of poor driving at any cost of day from £99 to £650.
The most arrogant/ignorant/costly I came across was a guy who was clearly the Stig, arrived with a (guessing here) +£70k fully race prepped Skyline GTR which apparently had near 1000hp.
He arrived & let his pit-crew set the car up while he went to the briefing with his mate, they talked all the way through the briefing because they knew it all, did the sighting laps aggressively "worrying" the car in front & then when they went out on the first lap (Cadwell) stuffed the car going into the mountain........ Didn't even manage 1 full lap.......
carl_w said:
Well the OP does say he can count on one hand the number of times he's been overtaken on the track.
That will happen when you stay to the left all the way round and the track is absolutely packed with cars. 
Tribal Chestnut said:
Abdul Abulbul Amir said:
Yeah, looks pretty boring on that track. You need a much wider track to keep everyone happy in cars. Bedford, whilst flat and featureless, has loads more places to overtake safely.
It does look pretty tedious. Maybe the OP needs a bike?jm8403 said:
I don't think the answer is binary. Agree you get bellends in both but different organisers react differently to poor driving. Club / marque specific days such as lotus and porsche only tend to be much more courteous from my experience and bad driving gets one warning only. Agree you can still get throbbers wish cash too but those days tend to have less cars in total such as RSR days at Spa/N-ring and so you encounter then less, similar with goldtrack. I have seen the types you mention with all the gear and no idea also but in general, lots of these guys/the majority care more about their Pride and joy (which is why I think porsche/lotus is much better behaved as it's probably 1 of 4 cars rather than money no object idiots which is 1 ferrari/GTR/radical of 100 cars)
Agreed, hence what I was saying, idiocy can be found at all price levels.jm8403 said:
E-bmw said:
Agreed, hence what I was saying, idiocy can be found at all price levels.
Splitting hairs but my experience is that its much less with single makes at higher prices rather than 'there are no idiots on expensive trackdays'.With single makes each have a common baseline, at any other day there will always be idiots/driving gods who won't give way at any cost.
They think they are driving gods but everyone around them just sees an idiot.
At the higher price end there are equally many that see themselves as driving gods because there car is way more expensive but these are frequently the ones that actually have all the gear & no idea what is going on round them.
Just because the Stig can do a lap in there car faster than every other car on the day they think they can't/won't be overtaken, even though they aren't actually that fast apart from for the second that they accelerate away from the corner.
I have lost count of the number of laps I have (quickly caught up to & then) followed way "faster" cars until finally getting past and rapidly disappearing into the distance by the next complex of bends.
I stress that the above are just observations from many track days & not aimed at anyone on here or certainly not yourself.
The vacuum of criticism towards other participants of the track day for not following the rules (moving out of the way) is telling. How many balanced critiques have their been of their rule-breaking as well as mine? It reveals this thread is largely just a bandwagon for keyboard warriors to have a pop at me.
It's a shame, PH could be such a great forum if the nastiness shown by some posters was called out more. Ultimately it says more about them than it does about me.
It's a shame, PH could be such a great forum if the nastiness shown by some posters was called out more. Ultimately it says more about them than it does about me.
Kellerman said:
The vacuum of criticism towards other participants of the track day for not following the rules (moving out of the way) is telling. How many balanced critiques have their been of their rule-breaking as well as mine? It reveals this thread is largely just a bandwagon for keyboard warriors to have a pop at me.
It's a shame, PH could be such a great forum if the nastiness shown by some posters was called out more. Ultimately it says more about them than it does about me.
Given its a public forum I'm surprised your surprised by some of the responses but ultimately if you read between the lines, you were treated very fairly and seem unable to accept that ?It's a shame, PH could be such a great forum if the nastiness shown by some posters was called out more. Ultimately it says more about them than it does about me.
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