17k track car

[EdmondDantes]

Honda Civic Ep3 Type R?

Then get some one like Motion Motorsport to build you a proper race car and still have money left over for a trailer.

[EdmondDantes]

Or buy a cheap DC5 which are mega light
from factory less than 1100kg and 220bhp and with copious amounts of after markets parts available which don’t break the bank.

[Tommie38]

e46m3c said:

17k for a track car. Got to we weatherproof, roof or roll bar. Driven not trailed. Bonus points for use ability.

Suggestions?

Sorry if I have misunderstood. Do you have an E46 M3?

[Mr MXT]

e46m3c said:

Thanks for the comments guys. Pretty interesting thread for me at least.

Ginetta! Very good idea. I have looked at these in the past but figured they would be too hard to sell and a bit one trick pony.

On the caterham front. Ive had a similar non-caterham with the de-dion rear axel and 300bhp built charged meth'd duratec before i didnt get on with it. I know they are legendary but not for me. Westfield have independent rear suspension and wide body (im not small). Only westy id go for is the mega s2000 as i love the idea of that engine and gearbox in lightweight chassis. I just know i cant be arsed with the bad weather unless it was mega special. I know people on here will drive all weather, but im just being honest with myself, i wont.

I could be talked into a Nomad if they were 30k not 60. Dont ask me to reason why tho.

If you're considering an mega S2000, I'd not rule out other engines (i.e Duratec). I've tracked most variations of Westfields (Thanks westfield friends!). My Duratec Westfield had almost 250bhp and revved to 8500, I never drove a MegaS2000 that felt as quick due to the 80-100kg weight difference!

[braddo]

Mr MXT said:

If you're considering an mega S2000, I'd not rule out other engines (i.e Duratec). I've tracked most variations of Westfields (Thanks westfield friends!). My Duratec Westfield had almost 250bhp and revved to 8500, I never drove a MegaS2000 that felt as quick due to the 80-100kg weight difference!

That duratec sounds like £10-15k of just engine!

[Basil Brush]

Caddyshack said:

CABC said:

e46m3c said:

How come noone has mentioned a TVR yet? Tuscan has an integrated cage(?), bit over budget at about 25k. AP brakes standard, sounds epic, light weight, hydraulic steering. How come you dont see many of these on trackdays?

I don't know, but I suspect it's a combination of reputation of fragility, actual fragility and the fact they aren't the best handling cars for track.
Also, a lot of owners go on TVR-only TDs rather than have their (fibreglass) P&J mix with the hatchbacks. understandable.

I used to do lots of track days in my Cerbera, it held up well. We used to see a lot of TVRs. Cerb handled very well. Tuscan was too darty on the front end imo. Griff 500 was fine but I only drove a non power assisted and when it went sideways it was very tough to wind on lock fast enough to correct. Not tried a chimera on track.

It's not a massive job to sort the Tuscan handling as long as it isn't one of the very early ones.

[dunc_sx]

I've had a few of the cars mentioned and would just like to stick my oar in and say I much prefer the 987 to the 997. Especially on track, the mid engine chassis just turned so much better plus the engine intake noise just behind your head (and lighter weight).

A 987 Cayman is a good choice, geometry tweeks and ideally a hartech engine rebuild if gen 1 (3.4L), or go for gen 2 engine which are pretty bullet proof.

Both my radicals were within your budget when I bought them but not sure if that's the case these days, plus you need a trailer etc. They are utterly fantastic though.

Dunc.

[FTW]

dunc_sx said:

I've had a few of the cars mentioned and would just like to stick my oar in and say I much prefer the 987 to the 997. Especially on track, the mid engine chassis just turned so much better plus the engine intake noise just behind your head (and lighter weight).

A 987 Cayman is a good choice, geometry tweeks and ideally a hartech engine rebuild if gen 1 (3.4L), or go for gen 2 engine which are pretty bullet proof.

Both my radicals were within your budget when I bought them but not sure if that's the case these days, plus you need a trailer etc. They are utterly fantastic though.

Dunc.

I've been very tempted by a Radical SR1 GenII. Are they usable on UK trackdays? It seems Silverstone do not allow them and several TDO make a specific point to say they cannot be used at their events.

[dunc_sx]

FTW said:

I've been very tempted by a Radical SR1 GenII. Are they usable on UK trackdays? It seems Silverstone do not allow them and several TDO make a specific point to say they cannot be used at their events.

That's a good point. I'm up north and haven't had a problem and have heard about Silverstone which is a real shame, not sure about others.

Cheers,
Dunc.

[phazed]

Basil Brush said:

Caddyshack said:

CABC said:

e46m3c said:

How come noone has mentioned a TVR yet? Tuscan has an integrated cage(?), bit over budget at about 25k. AP brakes standard, sounds epic, light weight, hydraulic steering. How come you dont see many of these on trackdays?

I don't know, but I suspect it's a combination of reputation of fragility, actual fragility and the fact they aren't the best handling cars for track.
Also, a lot of owners go on TVR-only TDs rather than have their (fibreglass) P&J mix with the hatchbacks. understandable.

I used to do lots of track days in my Cerbera, it held up well. We used to see a lot of TVRs. Cerb handled very well. Tuscan was too darty on the front end imo. Griff 500 was fine but I only drove a non power assisted and when it went sideways it was very tough to wind on lock fast enough to correct. Not tried a chimera on track.

It's not a massive job to sort the Tuscan handling as long as it isn't one of the very early ones.

I have done dozens of Track Days in my old TVR Chimaeras. Really good fun.

I used to organise groups of us for most of the Track Days with at least five or six cars and sometimes as many as 10. Mostly a V8 Chims and griffs with often an a smattering of Tuscans, Tamoras and the odd cerb.

Sadly, those days are now behind me. You probably see less now now due to their increasing value.

Also, I have moved on for reasons, and I’m not there to chivvy people along!

My old 5.5 chim at Snetterton.

https://youtu.be/v4aahE3UvsQ

[Light17]

I've been looking at one of these myself, but I'm not sure if it's a terrible idea.

The 2017-2019 Suzuki Swift is 975kg, with the stock engine good for 260hp or thereabouts. There is a strong aftermarket community, but I don't see anyone using them on track. Am I missing something?

[E-bmw]

Light17 said:

I've been looking at one of these myself, but I'm not sure if it's a terrible idea.

The 2017-2019 Suzuki Swift is 975kg, with the stock engine good for 260hp or thereabouts. There is a strong aftermarket community, but I don't see anyone using them on track. Am I missing something?

Not at all, you see full fleets of them as rentaracers at the Nurburgring.

[QBee]

TVRs make reasonable track cars and have a great gang of owners.
BUT many of the older cars are soft tops, and only Cerbera, Tuscan and Sagaris had a built in roll cage.
My 1999 Chimaera has an aftermarket roll hoop behond my head, but I am well aware that it wouldn't be in the same county as an FIA spec cage.

Also, the above models are above your budget, and the handling is average, not outstanding.

I have done about 40 track days in my Chimaera, with aftermarket dampers, a baffled enlarged sump, baffled driver, bigger brakes and more power. But I bought the car as a fun car and then decided to do track days, not the other way around.

Yer man Phazed (posting above) and I did a lot of track days together and had great fun, but we were rarely the fastest thing on track. I think I took that video clip of him at Snetterton. His Chimaera was 400 bhp, about 100 bhp above standard.

He now tracks his Borkster S RS60 3.4 from time to time and loves the howl of the engine. It handles really well, is as quick as my Chimaera, but he too was warned about the risk of running without a baffled sump. He also tracks a Skoda vRS for fun, as it was cheap to buy and not expensive to run.

I think if I was shopping for a track car now I would look very closely and realistically at what I wanted out of a track car and buy something to suit that.
In my case, If I was buying from that standpoint I wouldn't be worried about out and out power, I would go for something light weight, nippy, cheap on consumables and fuel, fun to drive and with fantastic handling that would give me the courage to take corners faster than I would previously have dared.
Sod street cred, somone at the track day will always have something flasher than me. But I would expect to trailer it and its rain tyres to the track, as I have spent too much time in the cafe at UK race circuits, waiting for it to stop raining.

[wioifoiee]

FTW said:

I've been very tempted by a Radical SR1 GenII. Are they usable on UK trackdays? It seems Silverstone do not allow them and several TDO make a specific point to say they cannot be used at their events.

I run my SR3 on msv and opentrack track days at donington and oulton, there's no issue. None allowed at Silverstone as you've noted.
The only "problem" you'll have is finding a clear lap as you'll be going 20seconds/lap quicker than anyone else.

[CABC]

wioifoiee said:

I run my SR3 on msv and opentrack track days at donington and oulton, there's no issue. None allowed at Silverstone as you've noted.
The only "problem" you'll have is finding a clear lap as you'll be going 20seconds/lap quicker than anyone else.

presumably you also do more expensive, low numbers days?
I've only driven a Radical for half a day (Snett), but my takeaways were: real aero is amazing, requiring a major readjustment of cornering speed; and that they were just a little too fast for normal TDs to get any flow.

[phazed]

My personal take is that Radicals and similar vehicles should be used on a more specialised event (if such a thing exists). The difference in speed in between one of the slower cars and a Radical is tremendous. I can imagine problems happening from both ends, small hatchback, driver not anticipating the speed of the rRdical and the exact opposite for the Radical driver.

I personally haven’t had any problems with them being a medium speed driver I guess, but I am highly aware of the speed difference and try and keep one eye peeled for them at all times.

I’m sure it is off putting for a novice, or someone of a delicate nature!

Just my tuppence worth.

[e46m3c]

Well I still haven’t pulled the trigger on anything. Part of the reason I think the prices are too high for what they are.

Do I want to drop 20k on a 18 year old cayman with an engine likely to blow. No not really. Lots of these adverts are also online for 4-5weeks so presuming they aren’t selling and a price drop is coming.

Right now on the list is m135/m140, cayman, c6 corvette.

[QBee]

Prices do appear to be falling at present. Better supply of new vehicles working its way down the chain

[Ash_]

e46m3c said:

Well I still haven’t pulled the trigger on anything. Part of the reason I think the prices are too high for what they are.

Do I want to drop 20k on a 18 year old cayman with an engine likely to blow. No not really. Lots of these adverts are also online for 4-5weeks so presuming they aren’t selling and a price drop is coming.

Right now on the list is m135/m140, cayman, c6 corvette.

Don't buy an S is the answer to the bit in bold. Get a 987.2 2.9, bullet proof and newer by comparison with only about 0.4 sec slower to 60 and 10mph down on top end compared to a 987.1 S. It's what I ended up doing, initially wanted a 987.1 S, but was concerned about the engine issue, it is a rare issue and I acknowledge that, but if it happened I don't have money available to sort, so I got a 987.2 base model instead...and I'm very happy with it. Great fun.

[phazed]

I get your point, but having driven my daughters, 987.1, 2.9 and my 987.1 S, in reality and real feel there is no competition. No matter what the figures say, real world feel, there just isn’t.

The 2.9 is a lovely buzzy engine, but the added torque of the 3.4 is really noticeable..