the ring, insurance questions
Discussion
Pip1968 said:
Well I am no legal eagle and Atglaw is probably unwilling to comment until the final solution.
Final solution sounds a bit drastic, even for a German track. 
On a serious note, thx for your feedback - I am also very keen on resuming TF with some certainty that my insurers will not be able to legally try and recover TP costs.
Are you saying that this is potentially in the pipeline but one can't assume this is the case until "official" ?
When and how do you think one would know if this is "official" ?
nickfrog said:
Final solution sounds a bit drastic, even for a German track.
On a serious note, thx for your feedback - I am also very keen on resuming TF with some certainty that my insurers will not be able to legally try and recover TP costs.
Are you saying that this is potentially in the pipeline but one can't assume this is the case until "official" ?
When and how do you think one would know if this is "official" ?
Oh dear yes an unfortunate pun. Moving on.On a serious note, thx for your feedback - I am also very keen on resuming TF with some certainty that my insurers will not be able to legally try and recover TP costs.
Are you saying that this is potentially in the pipeline but one can't assume this is the case until "official" ?
When and how do you think one would know if this is "official" ?
I am speculating from the article I read, made Atglaw aware of (publishing not situation before he strikes me down) and Atglaw's subsequent non committal comment. Even if it did go through I am sure it will never be 'known' and there will be some sh#t put/leaked out by the insurance industry about it being on a 'case by case basis'.
If as Atglaw is intimating nobody has had TP costs recovered from them in recent times (bearing in mind that there cannot be many of these situations arising) then presumably it is already so. Or insurers are rallying the whole industry to put a group action in. Maybe it is already queued hence Atglaw's hesitance.
Just my take.
I am popping across later this year.
Pip
IT1GTR said:
Yes, the issue for me is not so much loosing the car plus the barrier, but any third party costs, for example if a bike were to crash on your fluid etc.
Shameless plug, but I work for Ring Garage, can probably sort out a rental deal if your looking for one next time...
sure you want to publically admit that lol if you leave you wont get your things back.......................Shameless plug, but I work for Ring Garage, can probably sort out a rental deal if your looking for one next time...
nickfrog said:
Final solution sounds a bit drastic, even for a German track.
a toll road you mean - not trackI think the lack of response is geared to this EU directive by the looks of things. Closing date 20th October:
In simple terms, the EC plans to issue a new Motor Insurance Directive, as a result of which all EU Member States must put into their National Law compulsory and unlimited third-party liability insurance to cover personal injury between motorsport competitors and car-to-car damage during any competition – from Formula One, Moto GP, World Rally to karting, historic and grass roots, whether regulated by the FIA or FIM or not.
However such widespread unlimited new insurance is not currently and, we understand, will not in the future be available - so motorsport will be unable to continue anywhere in the EU.
Please respond BY OCTOBER 20th to the EC Review Consultation -https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations/finance-2017-motor-insurance_en by using the simple ‘MIA Response Guidelines’ which can be downloaded here. This will take LESS THAN TEN MINUTES – a short time commitment to keep motorsport alive, and the jobs it supports, in place.
Pip
In simple terms, the EC plans to issue a new Motor Insurance Directive, as a result of which all EU Member States must put into their National Law compulsory and unlimited third-party liability insurance to cover personal injury between motorsport competitors and car-to-car damage during any competition – from Formula One, Moto GP, World Rally to karting, historic and grass roots, whether regulated by the FIA or FIM or not.
However such widespread unlimited new insurance is not currently and, we understand, will not in the future be available - so motorsport will be unable to continue anywhere in the EU.
Please respond BY OCTOBER 20th to the EC Review Consultation -https://ec.europa.eu/info/consultations/finance-2017-motor-insurance_en by using the simple ‘MIA Response Guidelines’ which can be downloaded here. This will take LESS THAN TEN MINUTES – a short time commitment to keep motorsport alive, and the jobs it supports, in place.
Pip
James McScotty said:
At least link the insurance section - http://www.destination-nurburgring.com/track-days/...Think you will find that is for Track days NOT TF.
as per the statement below
Please note. This insurance is not suitable for public, or Touristenfahrten tourist days. This insurance does not provide for any third (3rd) party liability, a legal requirement on public days. It is unlikely that normal road policies will cover a private event such as Destination Nurburgring trackday events. Unless you take out a policy from the company above - you may have no insurance on this event. Motor Vehicle Insurance on the Nürburgring on this event IS NOT required by law.
James McScotty said:
Yes, thanks.
Touristfart seems a bad idea, I was floating this as a better one.
Been to Darren’s Destination Nurburing a couple of times, and is highly recommended. Me and my friend use Morís insurance for our track days, which is also very good. Hope to see some of you at #DN20 !Touristfart seems a bad idea, I was floating this as a better one.
http://www.destination-nurburgring.com/2018-nurbur...
https://trackday.moris.co.uk
Is this finally a 'loop hole' solution to the liability & risk issue; - your opinions are welcomed!
Rightly or otherwise, it has been stated that German car insurers are legally obliged to provide thrid party liability cover for driving at the 'ring (which (generally) can't be recovered from the policy holder)
I live in Germany and regularly drive a UK registered car at the 'ring on TF. My insurance is purchased through a UK insurer with a clause stating the following:
"This certificate of motor insurance takes the place of an international motor insurance car (Green Card) and is evidence that the insurance extends to include the compulsary motor insurance requirements of any member country of the European Union"
There is a also an exclusions section in the policy which does not reference motorsport, the 'ring, toll roads, track day use or any other form of use which could be interpreted as akin to a 'ring TF day and I could keep the car in the UK at my UK address within the terms of the contract
So, if the initial assertion is correct (that DE insurers have legal obligation to provide TPL cover) then my UK policy must also afford me the same based on the above clause.
Can anyone provide a robust source to suggest the initial assertion is correct?
Rightly or otherwise, it has been stated that German car insurers are legally obliged to provide thrid party liability cover for driving at the 'ring (which (generally) can't be recovered from the policy holder)
I live in Germany and regularly drive a UK registered car at the 'ring on TF. My insurance is purchased through a UK insurer with a clause stating the following:
"This certificate of motor insurance takes the place of an international motor insurance car (Green Card) and is evidence that the insurance extends to include the compulsary motor insurance requirements of any member country of the European Union"
There is a also an exclusions section in the policy which does not reference motorsport, the 'ring, toll roads, track day use or any other form of use which could be interpreted as akin to a 'ring TF day and I could keep the car in the UK at my UK address within the terms of the contract
So, if the initial assertion is correct (that DE insurers have legal obligation to provide TPL cover) then my UK policy must also afford me the same based on the above clause.
Can anyone provide a robust source to suggest the initial assertion is correct?
Edited by Rob J on Wednesday 30th May 11:35
Edited by Rob J on Wednesday 30th May 12:42
Alex said:
Does your policy have a specific Nurburgring exclusion? Most do.
As I understand it, your insurance company will pay out 3rd party liability as obliged by EU/German law, but will then attempt to recover the costs from the you.
There is no exclusion for 'ring driving, toll road driving, any form of motorsport etc... If there was then surely it woulc contradict the clause that I refered to above?As I understand it, your insurance company will pay out 3rd party liability as obliged by EU/German law, but will then attempt to recover the costs from the you.
Rob J said:
There is no exclusion for 'ring driving, toll road driving, any form of motorsport etc... If there was then surely it woulc contradict the clause that I refered to above?
As I said, they will pay out to satisfy local legal obligations, but due to the exclusion in your UK the policy, will then attempt to recover the costs from you.Alex said:
Rob J said:
There is no exclusion for 'ring driving, toll road driving, any form of motorsport etc... If there was then surely it woulc contradict the clause that I refered to above?
As I said, they will pay out to satisfy local legal obligations, but due to the exclusion in your UK the policy, will then attempt to recover the costs from you.Alex said:
Rob J said:
Not sure if I misunderstand you or you did not read my response properly - there is NO exclusion in my policy...
Is there no exclusion for "race track" or "racing circuit"? That's unusual!But the real question is; are German insurers REALLY obligated to provide this cover for TPL? If not, then I have no more cover than a UK policy which specifically excludes 'ring use...
Boxster_racer said:
TheBlondeFella said:
A friend of mine who is off to the ring next month just got 2 days TF insurance for less than £400
Good for your friend !What is the total car cover in £?
And what is the exceess?
Does it cover damage to the track or track closure liability?
Thanks !
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