Careers in Programming/Software Development
Discussion
Long story short, have been considering a change in career and heading down the route of Programming/Software Development or similar. It's something I thought about going into when I was younger but did something different at Uni and therefore don't have any relevant qualifications.
Being 29 is it too late for me to even be thinking of such a thing? I realise it would probably entail going back to uni etc with all the added risks and costs associated, especially as I don't really have a good idea of what the job market is like for people with such skills.
Does anyone in this area have any knowledge/experience?
Being 29 is it too late for me to even be thinking of such a thing? I realise it would probably entail going back to uni etc with all the added risks and costs associated, especially as I don't really have a good idea of what the job market is like for people with such skills.
Does anyone in this area have any knowledge/experience?
Why would 29 be too late?
I've been a developer since graduating in 2005. Had a variety of jobs including consultancy and freelance.
If I was starting over again the things I'd consider are:
1) I would potentially reconsider my career choice as sitting in front of a screen for 10 hours a day every day for 40 years is pretty unhealthy. I know it sounds obvious but I had never considered this before starting my career. There are many months over winter where I barely see the sun and I do crave a bit of manual labour...
2) It took me 4 years of uni, 1 year in a graduate-type job and 3 years in a junior-type job to pass the £30k mark (I'm in Scotland - your results may vary).
In 2012 I learned how to work with WordPress (easy to pick up, zillions of tutorials online) and taught myself PHP, which I didn't really know before as a .Net developer. I used these skills as a freelancer working purely from home on websites like PeoplePerHour to build responsive websites. Occasionally I would take a .Net job or help out with SEO - but my main work was developing responsive WordPress websites to a far higher standard than the cheaper Indian developers. I had to whore myself out at the start to build a profile and get reviews, but in a matter of months I was making the equivalent of £33k gross (I say equivalent because I subtracted commuting costs, etc that a proper job would cost me).
I struggled to go above that. If I had agreed to take on-site jobs I'm sure it would have been more - but I was strict about working from home only.
Still, it took me 8 years to reach that income in my actual career when you include uni.
So I would definitely consider taking the freelancing route from the beginning if I was starting again. When you freelance remotely nobody cares if you have a degree as long as you can complete the work to a professional standard. You can learn while working and as you learn new skills accept more and more jobs.
It's not easy, but neither is 4 years of unpaid studying.
I've been a developer since graduating in 2005. Had a variety of jobs including consultancy and freelance.
If I was starting over again the things I'd consider are:
1) I would potentially reconsider my career choice as sitting in front of a screen for 10 hours a day every day for 40 years is pretty unhealthy. I know it sounds obvious but I had never considered this before starting my career. There are many months over winter where I barely see the sun and I do crave a bit of manual labour...
2) It took me 4 years of uni, 1 year in a graduate-type job and 3 years in a junior-type job to pass the £30k mark (I'm in Scotland - your results may vary).
In 2012 I learned how to work with WordPress (easy to pick up, zillions of tutorials online) and taught myself PHP, which I didn't really know before as a .Net developer. I used these skills as a freelancer working purely from home on websites like PeoplePerHour to build responsive websites. Occasionally I would take a .Net job or help out with SEO - but my main work was developing responsive WordPress websites to a far higher standard than the cheaper Indian developers. I had to whore myself out at the start to build a profile and get reviews, but in a matter of months I was making the equivalent of £33k gross (I say equivalent because I subtracted commuting costs, etc that a proper job would cost me).
I struggled to go above that. If I had agreed to take on-site jobs I'm sure it would have been more - but I was strict about working from home only.
Still, it took me 8 years to reach that income in my actual career when you include uni.
So I would definitely consider taking the freelancing route from the beginning if I was starting again. When you freelance remotely nobody cares if you have a degree as long as you can complete the work to a professional standard. You can learn while working and as you learn new skills accept more and more jobs.
It's not easy, but neither is 4 years of unpaid studying.
Edited by AAz01 on Friday 7th April 11:52
What did you do at Uni? Some companies used to look favourably on Maths based courses when applying for entry/graduate level jobs (it's been a while since I was at that level though, so it may have changed).
Have you taught yourself any programming and got any personal projects you could demo to prospective employers?
Have you taught yourself any programming and got any personal projects you could demo to prospective employers?
It's never too late. My suggestion would be to try and figure out a little more about what you want to do. Self learn for now, do a few home projects, maybe a few for beer money with some small local businesses, get some experience/portfolio behind you and use that time to work out which direction you want to go. This way you won't commit to costly degree or technical courses only to find you don't actually enjoy it.
AAz01 said:
In 2012 I learned how to work with WordPress (easy to pick up, zillions of tutorials online) and taught myself PHP, which I didn't really know before as a .Net developer. I used these skills as a freelancer working purely from home on websites like PeoplePerHour to build responsive websites.
I have considered this as a way to learn more about it all, there's seems to be a steady demand for people with such skill on freelancing sites as you say so I reckon I could teach myself up to an acceptable level and maybe try out a few basic assignments at home to see how I get on with it.Edited by AAz01 on Friday 7th April 11:52
In my experience, the most useful programmers are often those with some experience of what their software is supposed to do.
This may work to your advantage - what do you do for work at the moment?
I have mostly worked in the engineering field, and being able to communicate with the end user of the software is an important part
of the job.
ps There is plenty of work out there for those who can write good code even if they don't have much knowledge of the field their code is for, especially in larger teams.
This may work to your advantage - what do you do for work at the moment?
I have mostly worked in the engineering field, and being able to communicate with the end user of the software is an important part
of the job.
ps There is plenty of work out there for those who can write good code even if they don't have much knowledge of the field their code is for, especially in larger teams.
SlidingSideways said:
What did you do at Uni? Some companies used to look favourably on Maths based courses when applying for entry/graduate level jobs (it's been a while since I was at that level though, so it may have changed).
Have you taught yourself any programming and got any personal projects you could demo to prospective employers?
I did a Legal subject at uni although I did do a semester of computing/programming in my first year (my uni used the American system of semesters and doing your major along with minor subjects in your first year) plus when I was at school I did a little bit of programming both in school and at home including creating little mini games so I do have a little experience of it. Have you taught yourself any programming and got any personal projects you could demo to prospective employers?
As someone above mentioned i'll probably go down the self taught route just now (there's even apps that teach coding) and maybe look into doing some simple freelancing projects at home to see how I get on with it.
AW111 said:
In my experience, the most useful programmers are often those with some experience of what their software is supposed to do.
This may work to your advantage - what do you do for work at the moment?
I have mostly worked in the engineering field, and being able to communicate with the end user of the software is an important part
of the job.
ps There is plenty of work out there for those who can write good code even if they don't have much knowledge of the field their code is for, especially in larger teams.
I work in a job that involves looking at a lot of spreadsheets all day haha. This is what got me thinking about programming as i've started using alot of basic codes/formulas in my day to day work which reminded me of when I used to write programmes/create simple little games when I was at school. It's something I really should have kept going with but ended up doing something completely different instead. This may work to your advantage - what do you do for work at the moment?
I have mostly worked in the engineering field, and being able to communicate with the end user of the software is an important part
of the job.
ps There is plenty of work out there for those who can write good code even if they don't have much knowledge of the field their code is for, especially in larger teams.
Years ago, I would have suggested more caution as so many companies were off shoring and India was taking most of the jobs due to companies looking almost exclusively at cost and thinking programming was commodity work.
In the past few years, there has ben a shift and process knowledge, ability to be close to the issue and quality have meant that there is a good market for this work.
Good luck
In the past few years, there has ben a shift and process knowledge, ability to be close to the issue and quality have meant that there is a good market for this work.
Good luck
Best coder I ever worked with was self-taught, a semi-recluse who only worked from home.
Best vendor I ever bought from, a self-taught and passionate coder with a flair for problem solving.
If you like writing code and you are good at it, don’t let qualifications get in the way. At worst, if academic qualifications are brought up as part of a job interview situation ask them to set you a programming challenge.
Best vendor I ever bought from, a self-taught and passionate coder with a flair for problem solving.
If you like writing code and you are good at it, don’t let qualifications get in the way. At worst, if academic qualifications are brought up as part of a job interview situation ask them to set you a programming challenge.
One option to keep the money coming in and to get there in the end is to look at software support jobs, not your typical desktop support but supporting a bespoke application.
Having worked at 4 software houses over my career all have had people progress from support to other teams, personally I stated in support, moved to development and then on to database administration as databases are my best strength and I still get to develop code but in various languages suitable for the tasks at hand in the likes of T-SQL, Powershell, python, C# and VB.
If you wan't to develop I would say a degree is a necessity, it will help you gain the theoretical side that you wont generally learn on your own, I did this at night whilst working, it was a long slog but worth it in the end.
Salary's depend massively on where you are and the company you work for, but in my case my first support role I got at 18 years old, paid £16K which topped out at £30K when I moved to development 3 years later, I left development after another 3 years at £50K and now been a DBA for the last 10 years with a current package worth £90K. All jobs were in Glasgow.
I have one DBA in my team that made a career change at 29, went back to Uni for 3 years and came to us as a graduate on a Junior DBA role at £27K, he's now on £50K after 3 years in the Job and on track to climb higher within the organisation.
Having worked at 4 software houses over my career all have had people progress from support to other teams, personally I stated in support, moved to development and then on to database administration as databases are my best strength and I still get to develop code but in various languages suitable for the tasks at hand in the likes of T-SQL, Powershell, python, C# and VB.
If you wan't to develop I would say a degree is a necessity, it will help you gain the theoretical side that you wont generally learn on your own, I did this at night whilst working, it was a long slog but worth it in the end.
Salary's depend massively on where you are and the company you work for, but in my case my first support role I got at 18 years old, paid £16K which topped out at £30K when I moved to development 3 years later, I left development after another 3 years at £50K and now been a DBA for the last 10 years with a current package worth £90K. All jobs were in Glasgow.
I have one DBA in my team that made a career change at 29, went back to Uni for 3 years and came to us as a graduate on a Junior DBA role at £27K, he's now on £50K after 3 years in the Job and on track to climb higher within the organisation.
Orchid1 said:
Long story short, have been considering a change in career and heading down the route of Programming/Software Development or similar. It's something I thought about going into when I was younger but did something different at Uni and therefore don't have any relevant qualifications.
Being 29 is it too late for me to even be thinking of such a thing? I realise it would probably entail going back to uni etc with all the added risks and costs associated, especially as I don't really have a good idea of what the job market is like for people with such skills.
Does anyone in this area have any knowledge/experience?
29 not too late, and no need to go back to Uni. Learn a programming language in your spare time and get an entry level coding role (the hardest bit, and assuming you can live on the salary), then it's a case of pushing up the earnings ladder, by being in the right location/sector at the right time (if that's what you want)Being 29 is it too late for me to even be thinking of such a thing? I realise it would probably entail going back to uni etc with all the added risks and costs associated, especially as I don't really have a good idea of what the job market is like for people with such skills.
Does anyone in this area have any knowledge/experience?
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff