Transferring to US office

Author
Discussion

Matt Harper

6,618 posts

201 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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parabolica said:
I.e. moving to America and signing a US contract so that you are just like any other US national working there; this is instead of remaining on a UK* contract on expat secondment which entitles you to UK employment protection (which is significantly better than US). As far as I'm aware, there is no statute law in the US that employers need to provide relocation assistance to those on local contract, regardless of visa status; I stand to be corrected though.

*In some cases companies will use an International entity for employing expat staff, so maybe UK protection wouldn't be applied depending on company policy.
I think the point is being missed. Regardless of how the petitioning employer feels about the concept of paying for the repatriation of an employment visa (E1/2, L-1A/B, H-1B and in most cases O-1) beneficiary they have terminated, they are required by USCIS to do so. It isn't a voluntary/discretionary matter. The employer is legally bound by the requirement.

The jiffle king

6,914 posts

258 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Matt Harper said:
I think the point is being missed. Regardless of how the petitioning employer feels about the concept of paying for the repatriation of an employment visa (E1/2, L-1A/B, H-1B and in most cases O-1) beneficiary they have terminated, they are required by USCIS to do so. It isn't a voluntary/discretionary matter. The employer is legally bound by the requirement.
I just want to make sure that I am reading this correctly. If I am terminated for any reason whilst on an L1 visa, the employer is responsible for repatriating me and my family?

Matt Harper

6,618 posts

201 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
The jiffle king said:
I just want to make sure that I am reading this correctly. If I am terminated for any reason whilst on an L1 visa, the employer is responsible for repatriating me and my family?
Correct - not your possessions - but you and your L2 family members - definitely yes.

The jiffle king

6,914 posts

258 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Matt Harper said:
Correct - not your possessions - but you and your L2 family members - definitely yes.
Thankyou, that is interesting given what I've just been discussing with a team member. Many Thanks for the clarification

Matt Harper

6,618 posts

201 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
The jiffle king said:
Matt Harper said:
Correct - not your possessions - but you and your L2 family members - definitely yes.
Thankyou, that is interesting given what I've just been discussing with a team member. Many Thanks for the clarification
But only if they terminate you. If you choose to resign, they have no obligation in this regard.

The jiffle king

6,914 posts

258 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Matt Harper said:
But only if they terminate you. If you choose to resign, they have no obligation in this regard.
But if you are made redundant then this also applies as it is termination?

mikef

4,872 posts

251 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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parabolica said:
Matt Harper said:
In the case of any employment based visa, the petitioner is obligated to repatriate the beneficiary if the petitioner terminates the employment, regardless of reason.

What is being transferred on a local contract? Whatever it is, if it involves work in the US, there will be a visa requirement and as such, a petitioner, who must pay to send an ex-employee home (assuming they fire the employee).
I.e. moving to America and signing a US contract so that you are just like any other US national working there; this is instead of remaining on a UK* contract on expat secondment which entitles you to UK employment protection (which is significantly better than US). As far as I'm aware, there is no statute law in the US that employers need to provide relocation assistance to those on local contract, regardless of visa status; I stand to be corrected though.

*In some cases companies will use an International entity for employing expat staff, so maybe UK protection wouldn't be applied depending on company policy.
They are obliged to pay travel costs to relocate the visa holder. But not any household goods, lease termination fees etc, which will far outweigh the economy fare.

As alluded to, a key thing to negotiate for is tax equalisation service for the years you move out and back. My company had PWC do that at several grand each time. Believe me, HR Block will not have a clue about reciprocal international tax treaties. For what it's worth a chap called David Treitel at American Tax Returns in London just did my 2016 NR return and was both knowledgeable and a lot cheaper than PWC!

There's lots more that we can advise, let us know if you get closer to making the decision.

As noted, you will me in a much stronger negotiating position if the,company are asking you to move, much weaker if it's your request.

FiF

44,076 posts

251 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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In addition to the stuff mentioned above, my previous lot, in the event of a long term move, recognised that your stuff eg electrical kit, couldn't work, different voltage, different systems, so you got an allowance.

Also if your wife works in UK they provided help with that, either to get a job or in the event couldn't find suitable work then a proportion of UK salary.

Vaud

50,479 posts

155 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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FiF said:
Also if your wife works in UK they provided help with that, either to get a job or in the event couldn't find suitable work then a proportion of UK salary.
That is quite generous!

Matt Harper

6,618 posts

201 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
The jiffle king said:
But if you are made redundant then this also applies as it is termination?
Yes

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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Matt Harper said:
I think the point is being missed. Regardless of how the petitioning employer feels about the concept of paying for the repatriation of an employment visa (E1/2, L-1A/B, H-1B and in most cases O-1) beneficiary they have terminated, they are required by USCIS to do so. It isn't a voluntary/discretionary matter. The employer is legally bound by the requirement.
I assume the legislation must have changed since I last had the joy of dealing with US visas, as back then (about 5 ish years ago) only the H1-B and O-1 visas had the employer requirement for cost of repatriating the employee. Given the amount of change in the US over the last 5 years, I would not be surprised if this requirement had been extended to all non-immigrant work visas.

Edit to add: I'll have the relevant (old but hopefully updated) links somewhere, I'll see if I can find them - no doubt the new ones will show the termination-repatriation clause are now in the L-1 category as well.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 17th April 18:42

Vaud

50,479 posts

155 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
But aren't their 2 points?

Cost of repatriation = people

Overall liabilities could be outstanding rental, car, furniture, cell phone, etc... which will be down to a contractual agreement.

OP, also don't forget that when you go to the US you will have no credit record and it will take a few months to build one. There are hints and tips for accelerating these and you bank might help, but generally it takes a while.

Matt Harper

6,618 posts

201 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
wsurfa said:
I assume the legislation must have changed since I last had the joy of dealing with US visas, as back then (about 5 ish years ago) only the H1-B and O-1 visas had the employer requirement for cost of repatriating the employee. Given the amount of change in the US over the last 5 years, I would not be surprised if this requirement had been extended to all non-immigrant work visas.

Edit to add: I'll have the relevant (old but hopefully updated) links somewhere, I'll see if I can find them - no doubt the new ones will show the termination-repatriation clause are now in the L-1 category as well.

Edited by wsurfa on Monday 17th April 18:42
It applies to any and all employment-based visas that require a petitioner who is not also the beneficiary. i.e. if you petition an employment based visa for an employee, you are responsible for the cost of their repatriation, if you terminate them for any reason - including a failed renewal petition or simply that their I-94 has timed-out.

hyphen

26,262 posts

90 months

Monday 17th April 2017
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Jefferson Steelflex said:
Whereabouts in US?
+1

Is it somewhere nice/near somewhere nice?

Also don't US employees get a lot less holidays compared to Europe?

Vaud

50,479 posts

155 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
hyphen said:
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Whereabouts in US?
+1

Is it somewhere nice/near somewhere nice?

Also don't US employees get a lot less holidays compared to Europe?
It varies. My counterparts get 20 days (vs 28 for me) + the national holidays like July 4. But they still work on vacation, or at least are available.

anonymous-user

54 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Matt Harper said:
wsurfa said:
I assume the legislation must have changed since I last had the joy of dealing with US visas, as back then (about 5 ish years ago) only the H1-B and O-1 visas had the employer requirement for cost of repatriating the employee. Given the amount of change in the US over the last 5 years, I would not be surprised if this requirement had been extended to all non-immigrant work visas.

Edit to add: I'll have the relevant (old but hopefully updated) links somewhere, I'll see if I can find them - no doubt the new ones will show the termination-repatriation clause are now in the L-1 category as well.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 17th April 18:42
It applies to any and all employment-based visas that require a petitioner who is not also the beneficiary. i.e. if you petition an employment based visa for an employee, you are responsible for the cost of their repatriation, if you terminate them for any reason - including a failed renewal petition or simply that their I-94 has timed-out.
OK thanks, I couldn't find that in the DOS Foreign Affairs Manual for L-1, but mine is a PDF from c2010, so I assume that's now updated.

Anyhow, as per a previous point the legal requirement for an individual cost of return to home is minor in the international assignment cost profile. Mid level assignments regularly cost $300-$500k per year, an estimate for higher level was $500-750k/year.

A mid level IA plan will have the following type of stuff in it - so you need to understand if they are treating this as an assignment, or an internal transfer(personal or corporate drive), or possibly an extended business trip





If you want to get an idea of the local purchasing power vs your home location then https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.j... is a reasonable guesstimate to start with


mikef

4,872 posts

251 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
hyphen said:
+1

Is it somewhere nice/near somewhere nice?

Also don't US employees get a lot less holidays compared to Europe?
Yep - if they are asking you to transfer, aim to keep your UK holiday entitlement

If you are asking to transfer, expect around 13 days

FiF

44,076 posts

251 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Vaud said:
FiF said:
Also if your wife works in UK they provided help with that, either to get a job or in the event couldn't find suitable work then a proportion of UK salary.
That is quite generous!
Yes they were a really cracking outfit.

Another help, assuming you owned your own home, there was a guiding principle that at some point you would want to return to your home country, in fact there was an element of that written into the contract. Considering different housing markets in different countries it was recognised that homeowners would very likely wish to keep ownership of their residence in the home country and you were not expected to have to support the cost of two homes, therefore allowances were made to take this into account. In practice what this meant was that you would get help to rent your house while you were away, practically this often meant renting your house out to another employee who had come in from Europe, Americas or Pacific Rim. Point is you aren't risking renting to the idiots on the general rental market.

Hainey

4,381 posts

200 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Polarbert said:
Jefferson Steelflex said:
Whereabouts in US?

Firstly I'd be asking for a pre-assignment trip to see if you actually like it. Not a week in a hotel, but a longer period staying in an apartment or similar so you have to look after yourself. Parts of USA are lovely, others not so (It really is 50 different countries rolled into 1) and you may find, as I did, that you just couldn't live there once you have scratched the surface. I was looking at moving to Houston, got all excited about the new adventure, then lived there for 6 weeks while on assignment and found the politics, guns, healthcare and certain other issues drove me nuts.

I spent 5 weeks in San Diego last year and I absolutely could live there.
Sweet! I live in San Diego, quite a nice place to live.
Accept my jealousy! I go there twice a year with the family on holiday and its a place I'd love to retire to.

mikef

4,872 posts

251 months

Monday 17th April 2017
quotequote all
Jeez FIF, what industry was that? I've only heard similar in oil and gas. Certainly not the norm in the software industry

Maybe if you're a CEO, not a lowly VP