The next step in my IT Career

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Discussion

ffc

606 posts

158 months

Friday 19th May 2017
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Vorsprung Durch Technik said:
The Comptia+ and CCNA certifications look pretty promising.

Anybody in the network/IP game?
Personally speaking, i do enjoy configuring switches and I have a NAS and stuff at home, so it's something I do enjoy.
I've worked in IT for 34 years, been a CCIE for 19 years and a JNCIE for 16 years and I have made a good living as both a permie and a contractor.

Our market is changing rapidly now though. Networking is embracing virtualisation today in the same way that the server market did a few years ago. As well as needing good networking skills (IP/MPLS etc) you need to be able to code for automation and understand network virtualisation and service chaining going forward. What had been a relative static industry for skills is now changing rapidly.

Are certifications useful? Mine have been for me but YMMV.

768

13,601 posts

95 months

Friday 19th May 2017
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I've spent most of my career trying to get out of IT. Probably straightforward, but McDonalds don't have an opening locally paying six figures.

A degree I found useful. Beyond that programming opens more doors than most, except sales I guess on the non-technical side. There aren't many routes up from a support role without a sideways step.

I'm less sure why anyone who can't code would look at AWS, etc. than I perhaps was a few years ago. With tools like docker-machine, kubernetes, etc, the cloud platforms are becoming increasingly abstracted behind APIs.

silent ninja

863 posts

99 months

Sunday 11th June 2017
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The vast majority of replies in this thread are IT-technical focused. Let me give you a different slant.

I was stuck in a 1st/2nd Line Service Desk analyst job and as a major incident manager for 3 years. This was with a FTSE 100 company. I realised there were two paths: technical or managerial. I'd found I was no longer interested in the technical side, and there were more opportunities on the business side. They seem to get paid just as much and technical roles were tough, under appreciated and you end up operating in a box. However, I didn't want to manage people. I also found it difficult to progress within the organisation: people were pre-picked for roles (i had enough intelligence from the people I knew), nepotism, managers generally looking after each other. The company had a general attitude of saying they want to invest in people but wouldn't send anybody on courses, or work shadowing, or supporting in any way.
Once my senior manager said "why would I pay for you to go on a course, once you get qualified you'll go off to someone else's team. I'm not paying out of my budget to train you for someone else!"

Typical silo mentality.

So I took matters in to my own hands.
Look at jobs you like the sound of, look at the qualifications, ask people who do those jobs or work in those industries - search online, look on Linked_in etc there is a wealth of info. I decided I wanted to do something in business management and IT and after much research I decided I liked the sound of technology procurement. I knew a bit about technology but nothing about procurement. So I studied the CIPS (Chartered Institute of Procurement & Supply) diploma part-time at a local college.

Toward the end of the 1 year course, I started applying for purchasing jobs. It was tough going with no experience but I focused on the experience I did have that was relevant. 45 applications, 3 interviews and 3 months later later, I landed a fantastic role at one of the UK's biggest companies - it only paid £26k and involved a 90 minute commute but the scope of the job, the experience and skills I'd gain would be well worth it long-term. I accepted. 18 months later, and after around another 45 applications, I landed a global manager role looking after IT applications for another huge company. The work is good fun - working with suppliers, IT (architects, PM's, managers and heads of, the CIO even!), Finance, the business, strategising and negotiating deals. I get to work on some really interesting and cutting edge projects - automation is a big thing right now and cloud continues to grow.
And i get paid £50k+! That's not bad from the lonely service desk job I had 18 months earlier. After 2-3 years in role, a 6 figure contractor role is not out of the question if that's what I want. I've genuinely found a role that is technology and IT focused that I enjoy and think I am pretty good at!

I wouldn't say it was easy making that big change. I put in a lot of time and focus: studying part-time, reading books, articles, online (generally learning the industry), conferences, and spending enormous amounts of time on my CV and interview technique. It's graft and persistence. Nothing good comes easy and nothing is going to fall out the sky into your lap. So I say take control of your life, find the thing you enjoy and want to do, and drive at it. Looking at the modern economy, your working life is going to be long. Do it in something you enjoy. Persistence is a key quality and separates the losers from winners.

On a last note, it doesn't end there. You have to continuously grow and improve in today's world. Right now I'm taking a course in MS Project, a course about cloud commercials, i'm joining toastmasters to improve my presentation skills, i'm leading a review in our organisation's legal contracts framework for IT, i'm improving my PM skills - because if the PM is poor I need to have confidence that I can guide and get things back on track, it's a team effort - and in September I intend to kick off a post grad certificate in technology management. Gone are the days where you get a qualification and a job and you're done - especially not in something as fast moving as IT and technology!


Edited by silent ninja on Sunday 11th June 13:46

KobayashiMaru86

1,145 posts

209 months

Sunday 11th June 2017
quotequote all
silent ninja said:
The vast majority of replies in this thread are IT-technical focused. Let me give you a different slant.

I was stuck in a 1st/2nd Line Service Desk analyst job and as a major incident manager for 3 years. This was with a FTSE 100 company. I realised there were two paths: technical or managerial. I'd found I was no longer interested in the technical side, and there were more opportunities on the business side. They seem to get paid just as much and technical roles were tough, under appreciated and you end up operating in a box. However, I didn't want to manage people. I also found it difficult to progress within the organisation: people were pre-picked for roles (i had enough intelligence from the people I knew), nepotism, managers generally looking after each other. The company had a general attitude of saying they want to invest in people but wouldn't send anybody on courses, or work shadowing, or supporting in any way.
Once my senior manager said "why would I pay for you to go on a course, once you get qualified you'll go off to someone else's team. I'm not paying out of my budget to train you for someone else!"

Typical silo mentality.
This sounds all too familiar. Company promises the world in terms of training and development and yet I've had no progression in 2 years. My appraisal is coming up and last year I was promised yet again to have training that was actually IT related and a pay rise once certain objectives were complete. A year later there's no pay rise for me, no new training apart from a Business Improvement NVQ I'm doing (as are most other dept supervisors), all the projects are done and I get told to share knowledge, etc. I always do but I always have in the back of my head that it's making sure that if I leave they can carry on. But whenever I come back off annual leave the ticket queue is larger than it's ever is when I'm there and it takes me a week to clear it down again. None of it is stuff they don't know how to do either.

Job wise I'm at the same cross roads. Go more technical or more management. Management I'm leaning towards as I've run a few projects successfully and enjoyed them.

Liggle

280 posts

100 months

Thursday 15th June 2017
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My skills and experience grew the quickest when working for MSP's, I've found since working in corporate/in-house roles I've had to put significantly more time and effort in my spare time to keep sharp as the working environment just isn't as fast paced as an MSP/consultancy.

My career path went like this:

1st line helpdesk (MSP)
2nd line helpdesk (MSP)
3rd line engineer (MSP)
3rd line/lead project engineer/pre sales consultant (MSP)

Senior Infrastructure Engineer (Corporate - zzzZZzzzz)
Senior Infrastructure Engineer x3 (Made the jump to contracting - all Corporate)
Cloud Infrastructure Engineer/Consultant (My biggest challenge is now bureaucracy not technical)

Going contracting has nearly trebled my take home pay and although the roles are dull I move every 3-12 months which keeps it interesting.

My advice would be to bone up on Azure or AWS (plenty of free training around online) and try and get in at an engineer level in a cloud focused MSP/consultancy.




Taita

7,592 posts

202 months

Thursday 15th June 2017
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3 months free PluralSight and other stuff here.

https://www.visualstudio.com/dev-essentials/


jonny996

2,603 posts

216 months

Thursday 15th June 2017
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The jiffle king said:
None of us want negative people around us, so identify the problem and the solution
Some very sound advise there but the stand out one for me it the one above with AND being to stand out word.

danpalmer1993

507 posts

107 months

Thursday 15th June 2017
quotequote all
Started off as an apprentice in one of the biggest IT companies in the world and luckily have had lots of training and opportunities passed my way. Moved roles a bit at the start to gain experience and then settled into a sector I enjoy and am working towards becoming an architect focusing on Infrastructure.

Testing - 1 year
Support Desk - 1 year
Middleware - 1 year
DevOps/Automation - 2 years
Junior Infra Architect combined with keeping hands on with the Automation and DevOps stuff - last 6 months and will be for the forseeable future.

As others have said pick something you enjoy and is as futureproof as possible in the IT sector and get cracking. Udemy often have $10 sales on courses for AWS that are very useful and prepare you for the exams.

For what it's worth I'm 24, joined straight out of college and with overtime, on call and bonuses do well for myself!

hantsxlg

862 posts

231 months

Friday 16th June 2017
quotequote all
I'd read and digest The Jiffle Kings comments.

I started as a graduate IT consultant 20 years ago and for the last few years have been running a team of consultants before recently moving to the 'customer' side. Technical skills will get you so far, in the early part of your career. BUT with those you always need to keep current, often at your own expense (time and money, especially if contractor). In a 'technie' role you will probably sleep better at night (apart from critical go-lives etc) but will also have career/earning ceilings you hit sooner.

Having functional & business process knowledge (WHY are we doing the technie things, what will affect the business when we do/don't do it ) is the next step, followed by the comms and relationship skills. The commercial skills to have effective RFP processes and work with external providers is also key.

You will always hit a career point where you have to decide if you want to remain a 'doer' or become a leader/manager. I did have staff who were 'doers' earning 100K plus so can be well paid, BUT can become very niche and when cost cutting is in progress are first targets. Mgmt roles can have unlimited growth in them (a few CEOs have started at the bottom and worked on up) but will mean constant burning bridges to be worked on and associated sleep lose.

Depends what you want in life, and your capabilities to achieve...

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Friday 16th June 2017
quotequote all
currently running localstack ( https://github.com/atlassian/localstack )
on my home server to practice AWS stuff smile

Too Late

5,092 posts

234 months

Friday 16th June 2017
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
currently running localstack ( https://github.com/atlassian/localstack )
on my home server to practice AWS stuff smile
Thanks for the link

Cloud cloud and cloud.

Need i say more? It is the only way i see infrastructure move towards now

laserservo

2,779 posts

106 months

Friday 16th June 2017
quotequote all
hantsxlg said:
I'd read and digest The Jiffle Kings comments.

I started as a graduate IT consultant 20 years ...
Depends what you want in life, and your capabilities to achieve...
both brilliant posts

silent ninja

863 posts

99 months

Sunday 18th June 2017
quotequote all
KobayashiMaru86 said:
This sounds all too familiar. Company promises the world in terms of training and development and yet I've had no progression in 2 years. My appraisal is coming up and last year I was promised yet again to have training that was actually IT related and a pay rise once certain objectives were complete. A year later there's no pay rise for me, no new training apart from a Business Improvement NVQ I'm doing (as are most other dept supervisors), all the projects are done and I get told to share knowledge, etc. I always do but I always have in the back of my head that it's making sure that if I leave they can carry on. But whenever I come back off annual leave the ticket queue is larger than it's ever is when I'm there and it takes me a week to clear it down again. None of it is stuff they don't know how to do either.

Job wise I'm at the same cross roads. Go more technical or more management. Management I'm leaning towards as I've run a few projects successfully and enjoyed them.
I got out of this. You eventually come to the realisation that your learning and progression is down to YOU and not the company. I became a contractor, took ownership of my career and life. Learned a lot, but most of all being self-dependent. I'm now in a permie job and sort of not liking it, but they gave me a great offer and great job title to come here, so plan is to stick it out for 2 years.

Don't rely on an organisation to meet your career needs. You are the best person to be in charge of this. The organisation is in charge of looking out for it's self-interests only. Focus on jobs that will give you the correct skillsets - these will pay off in the medium/long-term, rather than a quick buck.

ClockworkCupcake

74,401 posts

271 months

Sunday 18th June 2017
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toon10 said:
If you want to go into IT Management then I'd do ITIL foundation with a view to one of the advanced topics after like ITIL Service Delivery or similar.

A word of warning though...

I was a software developer who had got bored of the daily grind. I put myself forward for all sorts of things, change manager, yellow/greenbelt 6 sigma courses just to get a change from developing. After than I got recognised as a talent and was put on a management plan. I did a year long college course ILM L3 Diploma In Management. It was assignment based and enforced the sort of management skills you'd need. I made Deputy IT Manager which I loved. My boss started to fail and relied on me a lot more but then he lost the plot and was moved on. After a restructure, I ended up in a made up role for a while which wasn't great. 2 years later and the head of IT decided to move on to pastures new. I got the IT Manager job for the UK & Ireland. I'd been working towards it for a while and it was the career progression I wanted.

Fast forward a year and my god if I could get my salary and bonus doing anything else, and I do mean anything, I'd be out of IT and out of management all together. Thankless job where you lose your technical skills and just get all the hassles of head office, Europe and the UK on your shoulders. I drink more and find it hard to switch off. (Woke up at 4:30 this morning and lay in bed thinking about work until my alarm went off).

As much as I'd be happy to take a big pay cut and go back to being a developer again, I'm now out of date and 25 year olds have more up to date technical skills and cost half what I would so I've made my bed and I'm lying in it. For the next 20 + years :-0
That's one of the reasons I've been a contractor for 17 years - I get the money and I get to stay writing software as a developer.

Although of late the contract market for C++ (my language of expertise / specialisation) has absolutely tanked. frown

The jiffle king

6,894 posts

257 months

Sunday 18th June 2017
quotequote all
diving back into this topic on the training/career development issues. I usually ask the following questions to find out how people are thinking about their careers:
- How much time int he last 12 months have you spent developing your career (working on a plan, training, talking with people about it?
- Do you have a career plan?
- Who else knows your career plan?
- Who is supporting you on your career?

Its a wake up call to many who don't have a plan and expect the company to do it for them. Training/development is a 3 way process with the employee owning it and the manager and the company supporting it. If you have not "had training" in 12 months, then initiate a conversation with your manager to ask how you can develop and what skills are preventing you from the next role? The own the actions, and drive the actions

I've seen so many smart people stuck in roles they don't like due to not being able to communicate what they want to the right people (they sometimes moan to all of their friends/colleagues). If people dedicated just 1 day per year to their career which is less than 0.5% of the working time based on 220 days per year, then everyone would be able to develop their careers/skills.

Generally I think the second issue is manager quality and by that I mean that the manager has not been trained on how to ask the right questions in a career conversation and cannot help the employee bridge the gap from current role to future role wanted.

Enough ramblings from me, just my perspective

wombleh

1,777 posts

121 months

Sunday 18th June 2017
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Been in networking for about 20 years, started fixing PCs and now working as an architect.

While I think it's fair to say qualifications don't mean you are any good, and senior people may not have any, if you want a foot in the networking path then IMO you must have CCNA. It's not a bad way to learn anyway as it's not all Cisco specific, lots of it is generic ISO models or basics of switching and routing which are vital skills (yet ones many in networking don't have even today). If it's a choice between two candidates both with experience and one also has certs then guess who gets the interview.

My advice would be don't stick to one silo, specialise in one for sure but get experience across everything. If you go into networking then build a few Linux servers or knock together a few web apps. Cross silo skills really make you stand out and you'll never be out of work.

Agree with the comment above that networking is undergoing massive change to virtual and service models. There will still be a need for basic infrastructure but I suspect there will be fewer jobs and they'll need some programming skills. You'll also need to learn new technologies constantly, personally I love that as it keeps things interesting but not everyone gets on with it.

toastyhamster

1,660 posts

95 months

Sunday 18th June 2017
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Epic skills shortage in Cyber Security, everything from people being able to run vulnerability scanners up to people happy to talk business
risks with C level execs. Salaries going a bit bonkers, and if I lived somewhere where I'd be happy with regular trips to the Reading M4 corridor I'd be earning a lot more money. As it is even resellers are crying out for good staff, never mind vendors which are paying 6 figure salaries (but also flogging you). Downside, to get in on the techie angle you need to put a fair bit of effort in to understand techniques, tooling and prevention. Thankfully I sort of side stepped that and now work in presales :-)

EmilA

1,511 posts

156 months

Tuesday 27th June 2017
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I put this down to two areas. Do you want to stay technical or a non-technical role? Personally I went down the non-technical route as I didn't fancy sitting exams all the time as technology evolved. If you want to go technical, find the area you like and work towards it by getting the right qualifications first. If it's non-technical, then maybe look into Service Management or a Project related role and again work towards it by getting qualifications such as ITIL V3 Foundation, Prince2 etc