Best route for a career in engineering?
Discussion
Hi Folks
My son had just finished sitting his GCSE exams and thinking of taking up engineering as a career.
He is thinking of whether to study a BTec course in engineering or perhaps an apprenticeship and then eventually going to university in both cases.
Could someone be kind enough to advice us the best route to take - either BTec or apprenticeship, or are there other routes which could be better?
Finally, he doesn't know what type of engineer he wants to be. What things does he need to take in to consideration when deciding this?
Thanks in advance for your responses
My son had just finished sitting his GCSE exams and thinking of taking up engineering as a career.
He is thinking of whether to study a BTec course in engineering or perhaps an apprenticeship and then eventually going to university in both cases.
Could someone be kind enough to advice us the best route to take - either BTec or apprenticeship, or are there other routes which could be better?
Finally, he doesn't know what type of engineer he wants to be. What things does he need to take in to consideration when deciding this?
Thanks in advance for your responses
Mechanical / Electrical / Electronic / Civil / other? What sort of general area is he interested in? I'm slightly biased but I can wholeheartedly suggest an engineering career in the Military (RAF Electrical/electronic in my case). He will get paid to train/learn, can change jobs every 3-5 years to get a broad exposure to many different types of engineering, possibly go on to do a University or HNC course, depending on career choices can even do a Masters degree. The other services (Army and Navy) also offer great engineering experience. Best bet is to look online at the careers pages on their websites or pop along to your local careers office and have a chat.
I had a fantastic 26 years, came out with an HNC, BEng and MSc! Worked on Aircraft avionic systems, ground based radar, satellite communications, telephone systems, cryptography, computer security, and finally safety engineering -and lots more in between! Travelled to lots of distant places as well, some hot and sandy, some cold and snowy and some warm and tropical!
I had a fantastic 26 years, came out with an HNC, BEng and MSc! Worked on Aircraft avionic systems, ground based radar, satellite communications, telephone systems, cryptography, computer security, and finally safety engineering -and lots more in between! Travelled to lots of distant places as well, some hot and sandy, some cold and snowy and some warm and tropical!
Edited by S6PNJ on Saturday 22 July 12:05
as a general tip, rather than straight to Uni I'd look at a company scheme where they take you on and give you release for Uni if they are still widely available.
Itshow I'd do it were I starting again.
I did Electroninc Engineering back in the day and at this point in time think I'd have been happier with Mechanical. So if he's not sure I'd be looking at some industrial placements to try and get that straight in his head
Itshow I'd do it were I starting again.
I did Electroninc Engineering back in the day and at this point in time think I'd have been happier with Mechanical. So if he's not sure I'd be looking at some industrial placements to try and get that straight in his head
As you've suggested, Sixth-form -> Uni is not the only option. I started as an apprentice at a smallish local firm 10 years ago, working in industrial control and automation. I did day release at college and uni for an HND 'topped up' to a degree. To be honest I was quite lucky to find a firm that took apprenticeships so seriously. It gave me a fantastic start and needless to say I was 5 years ahead of the graduates my age when I finished my apprenticeship. It also allowed me to buy a (cheap, even by Northern standards) house at 22. I now make a good living working in automated safety systems for oil & gas / nuclear projects.
Be careful to get a good idea of how any prospective company looks after its apprentices later on. I've seen that some unscrupulous employers take on 'apprentices' as they are cheap labour (much reduced minimum wage) for a couple of years then have no permanent job for them at the end.
I suppose it depends what your kid wants to do. Things like chemical engineering might be better through the uni route. If you think an apprenticeship would suit him better have a look at some of the big companies, they might list the kind of apprenticeships they offer. Companies like Jacobs, Aker Solutions, Babcock, Rolls-Royce, GE, Siemens, JLR, BAE...
Be careful to get a good idea of how any prospective company looks after its apprentices later on. I've seen that some unscrupulous employers take on 'apprentices' as they are cheap labour (much reduced minimum wage) for a couple of years then have no permanent job for them at the end.
I suppose it depends what your kid wants to do. Things like chemical engineering might be better through the uni route. If you think an apprenticeship would suit him better have a look at some of the big companies, they might list the kind of apprenticeships they offer. Companies like Jacobs, Aker Solutions, Babcock, Rolls-Royce, GE, Siemens, JLR, BAE...
S6PNJ said:
Mechanical / Electrical / Electronic / Civil / other? What sort of general area is he interested in? I'm slightly biased but I can wholeheartedly suggest an engineering career in the Military (RAF Electrical/electronic in my case). He will get paid to train/learn, can change jobs every 3-5 years to get a broad exposure to many different types of engineering, possibly go on to do a University or HNC course, depending on career choices can even do a Masters degree. The other services (Army and Navy) also offer great engineering experience. Best bet is to look online at the careers pages on their websites or pop along to your local careers office and have a chat.
I had a fantastic 26 years, came out with an HNC, BEng and MSc! Worked on Aircraft avionic systems, ground based radar, satellite communications, telephone systems, cryptography, computer security, and finally safety engineering -and lots more in between! Travelled to lots of distant places as well, some hot and sandy, some cold and snowy and some warm and tropical!
Royal Navy are offering a fast track Nuclear Engineering scheme. You need level 3 Engineering qualifications already and you sign up for 8.5 years. About 50% of this time is spent ashore but you do a 3.5 stint on the subs as a Petty Officer. After that your final year is spent at uni topping your quals up to a degree. At the end you can leave, stay on or go for a commission. They also offer fast track apprenticeships for Leading Hand Marine Engineers in the surface fleet and will be offering the same for the subs and IIRC electrical engineers. Have to be under 21 for this. I had a fantastic 26 years, came out with an HNC, BEng and MSc! Worked on Aircraft avionic systems, ground based radar, satellite communications, telephone systems, cryptography, computer security, and finally safety engineering -and lots more in between! Travelled to lots of distant places as well, some hot and sandy, some cold and snowy and some warm and tropical!
Edited by S6PNJ on Saturday 22 July 12:05
Given my time again I wouldn't even entertain the military and head towardsa MN or even RFA cadetship
I web to uni to study aerospace engineering. Unfortunate timing (911) meant I graduated at the worst possible time and have since progressed a decentish career within heavy industry and energy.
When I exited my graduate training scheme my manager was younger than me but had come up the apprentice route and then completed his degree (also aero) part time. We had the same qualifications but He had zero debt, a house, a nice car, and a lot more practical experience that I did.
Nowadays I work for a company with a very strong apprentice scheme. The ones who show ability and personality get on very quickly (typically lured from the uk to our Middle East office on lucrative salaries) and put through Strathclyde uni on the company bill.
If I had my time again I would have served an apprenticeship in the energy or high tech sectors with a company willing to put me through uni. Time served youngsters with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to travel the world will always be in high demand.
When I exited my graduate training scheme my manager was younger than me but had come up the apprentice route and then completed his degree (also aero) part time. We had the same qualifications but He had zero debt, a house, a nice car, and a lot more practical experience that I did.
Nowadays I work for a company with a very strong apprentice scheme. The ones who show ability and personality get on very quickly (typically lured from the uk to our Middle East office on lucrative salaries) and put through Strathclyde uni on the company bill.
If I had my time again I would have served an apprenticeship in the energy or high tech sectors with a company willing to put me through uni. Time served youngsters with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to travel the world will always be in high demand.
shirt said:
I web to uni to study aerospace engineering. Unfortunate timing (911) meant I graduated at the worst possible time and have since progressed a decentish career within heavy industry and energy.
When I exited my graduate training scheme my manager was younger than me but had come up the apprentice route and then completed his degree (also aero) part time. We had the same qualifications but He had zero debt, a house, a nice car, and a lot more practical experience that I did.
Nowadays I work for a company with a very strong apprentice scheme. The ones who show ability and personality get on very quickly (typically lured from the uk to our Middle East office on lucrative salaries) and put through Strathclyde uni on the company bill.
If I had my time again I would have served an apprenticeship in the energy or high tech sectors with a company willing to put me through uni. Time served youngsters with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to travel the world will always be in high demand.
Shirt as always you talk senseWhen I exited my graduate training scheme my manager was younger than me but had come up the apprentice route and then completed his degree (also aero) part time. We had the same qualifications but He had zero debt, a house, a nice car, and a lot more practical experience that I did.
Nowadays I work for a company with a very strong apprentice scheme. The ones who show ability and personality get on very quickly (typically lured from the uk to our Middle East office on lucrative salaries) and put through Strathclyde uni on the company bill.
If I had my time again I would have served an apprenticeship in the energy or high tech sectors with a company willing to put me through uni. Time served youngsters with a good head on their shoulders and a willingness to travel the world will always be in high demand.
I graduated from University with a degree in Aero Eng and found the same as Shirt, the folk who had done the apprentice and part time degree had come out with no debt and lots of valuable practical and professional experience.
As much as I did enjoy my years as student i didn't enjoy paying back the debt
I would say go apprentice route but on the grounds that he can find a good opportunity in a design/development business. Defence is often a good place to look!
samnorthy said:
Shirt as always you talk sense
I graduated from University with a degree in Aero Eng and found the same as Shirt, the folk who had done the apprentice and part time degree had come out with no debt and lots of valuable practical and professional experience.
As much as I did enjoy my years as student i didn't enjoy paying back the debt
Similar experience here, though not my boss the other guy is senior to me.I graduated from University with a degree in Aero Eng and found the same as Shirt, the folk who had done the apprentice and part time degree had come out with no debt and lots of valuable practical and professional experience.
As much as I did enjoy my years as student i didn't enjoy paying back the debt
geek84 said:
Could someone be kind enough to advice us the best route to take - either BTec or apprenticeship, or are there other routes which could be better?
It's interesting that most of the responses have focused on the apprenticeship approach. Can I ask why the traditional route of A Levels + Uni does not apply?
If I had my time over, I would go a very similar route to the one I took via A levels + Uni. The only thing I'd perhaps add is to look at the Year in industry schemes (probably pre uni) to add that experience.
I would have thought the decision should not be made on the near term earning potential vs debt but the actual long term career opportunities. I'm still of the view that the traditional approach yields a greater chance of success (not that you won't find successful and non-successful people taking all routes).
In terms of which branch of Engineering to take: Many options: I did a Uni course that was general for the first few years - you quickly learn that fluid dynamics and thermo mechanics are not for you......
Bob
I think I too would do the apprentice route if I had to do it again given the costs now. Then again I may not have ended up with my Doctorate (then again its not really that useful in the grand scheme of things, its more of a personal value than anything else).
But, if he does want to go the usual A-Level, Uni route he can do worse than a Mechanical degree if he is unsure about which tranche to go for. I am actually quite glad now that I ended up doing Mechanical after I didn't quite make it on to Automotive engineering.
On my course we ended up covering internal combustion engines (which is all I was interested in anyway), manufacturing engineering and electrical and electronic engineering. Of course not to the extent of dedicated courses but you can get a good feel for what you like and much of the ground work in years 1 and 2 is the same regardless.
In fact where I went, the engine module we did was the same as those guys on the Automotive engineering degree. They of course go on to look at manufacturing, vehicle dynamics, vehicle testing week at MIRA etc. We also did noise and vibration which whilst again more general in its application on the mechanical course was almost all directly applicable without much alteration back to automotive application. We also did mechatronics, laser and optical measurement, laser materials processing, computation fluid dynamics, finite element analysis, turbomachinery along with of course all the staples... thermodynamics, thermofluids, static and dynamic mechanics and most importantly.... Mathematics!
As well, I would then suggest getting into a uni that will do a year out in industry (many do) and I'd then encourage him to get summer placements as well as the summer vacation is quite long (ours was Mid June to October, so a good 3+ months of useful experience). If he's good then a job maybe forthcoming, or better...they offer to help out with fees in return for coming to work for them.
But, if he does want to go the usual A-Level, Uni route he can do worse than a Mechanical degree if he is unsure about which tranche to go for. I am actually quite glad now that I ended up doing Mechanical after I didn't quite make it on to Automotive engineering.
On my course we ended up covering internal combustion engines (which is all I was interested in anyway), manufacturing engineering and electrical and electronic engineering. Of course not to the extent of dedicated courses but you can get a good feel for what you like and much of the ground work in years 1 and 2 is the same regardless.
In fact where I went, the engine module we did was the same as those guys on the Automotive engineering degree. They of course go on to look at manufacturing, vehicle dynamics, vehicle testing week at MIRA etc. We also did noise and vibration which whilst again more general in its application on the mechanical course was almost all directly applicable without much alteration back to automotive application. We also did mechatronics, laser and optical measurement, laser materials processing, computation fluid dynamics, finite element analysis, turbomachinery along with of course all the staples... thermodynamics, thermofluids, static and dynamic mechanics and most importantly.... Mathematics!
As well, I would then suggest getting into a uni that will do a year out in industry (many do) and I'd then encourage him to get summer placements as well as the summer vacation is quite long (ours was Mid June to October, so a good 3+ months of useful experience). If he's good then a job maybe forthcoming, or better...they offer to help out with fees in return for coming to work for them.
SamR380 said:
As you've suggested, Sixth-form -> Uni is not the only option. I started as an apprentice at a smallish local firm 10 years ago, working in industrial control and automation. I did day release at college and uni for an HND 'topped up' to a degree. To be honest I was quite lucky to find a firm that took apprenticeships so seriously. It gave me a fantastic start and needless to say I was 5 years ahead of the graduates my age when I finished my apprenticeship. It also allowed me to buy a (cheap, even by Northern standards) house at 22. I now make a good living working in automated safety systems for oil & gas / nuclear projects.
Be careful to get a good idea of how any prospective company looks after its apprentices later on. I've seen that some unscrupulous employers take on 'apprentices' as they are cheap labour (much reduced minimum wage) for a couple of years then have no permanent job for them at the end.
I suppose it depends what your kid wants to do. Things like chemical engineering might be better through the uni route. If you think an apprenticeship would suit him better have a look at some of the big companies, they might list the kind of apprenticeships they offer. Companies like Jacobs, Aker Solutions, Babcock, Rolls-Royce, GE, Siemens, JLR, BAE...
I'm similar, except marine engineering. Completed HNC etc through apprenticeship, was subsequently sponsored through BEng and now an MSc. hard to say from a promotion point of view whether I've progressed quicker, however financially I'm far better off without the student debt.Be careful to get a good idea of how any prospective company looks after its apprentices later on. I've seen that some unscrupulous employers take on 'apprentices' as they are cheap labour (much reduced minimum wage) for a couple of years then have no permanent job for them at the end.
I suppose it depends what your kid wants to do. Things like chemical engineering might be better through the uni route. If you think an apprenticeship would suit him better have a look at some of the big companies, they might list the kind of apprenticeships they offer. Companies like Jacobs, Aker Solutions, Babcock, Rolls-Royce, GE, Siemens, JLR, BAE...
If the option is there, I would always recommend university, just for the life experience!
Me and all my mates matured so much during our 3/4 years and we had a couple of mates who stayed at home to do work based courses, both in finance.
They were just that bit more immature than us and didn't have the world experience that we had.
But again, it all depends on how your son is currently and where you live.
We were all from Jersey and had grown up there, not exactly the most worldy...
Me and all my mates matured so much during our 3/4 years and we had a couple of mates who stayed at home to do work based courses, both in finance.
They were just that bit more immature than us and didn't have the world experience that we had.
But again, it all depends on how your son is currently and where you live.
We were all from Jersey and had grown up there, not exactly the most worldy...
I did a 2 year BTEC after school in engineering, before applying and getting an apprenticeship, of all the people in my apprentice year I was the only one who wasn't a school leaver so I believe that gave me an advantage over other people who may have got he job instead of me if I was just applying out of school. I believe our place has had close to 1000 applicants for apprentices most years, so anything that helps stand out is better. Some places will put you through degrees as well, depending on the company.
Personally I took the spud route, however I've found it rather fulfilling. Didn't do well in school, left after my standard grades (Scottish GCSE's). Worked as an apprentice for several years before realising I really wanted to do more, managed to get onto a HNC/HND course based on my apprenticeship experience (without which I would be doing an NC course, an extra year). Completed my HND this year & have a place secured at my uni of choice for a 2 year B-eng hon, with the HND allowing me to skip year 1 and 2.
Again due to my experience as an apprentice I am also working part time as a technician to support myself through education, which seems to be a hell of a lot better standard of work than my fellow students who are stuck in supermarkets, kitchens and other unrelated work. So I would say that going for the more workplace orientated means of progression is more fulfilling, even if it takes you a year or two longer to reach your end goal.
My only tip would be, don't do a 'wierd' course. Stick to Mechanical or Electrical engineering, unless you have planned out your clear avenue of progression, I took a year out to do 'systems engineering' HNC only to find out that it was essentially a waste of time as it wasn't enough to get my on to any further mechanical or electrical course as it contained some modules from both, but was still missing several.
Also sitting my C+E licence this year... gotta keep my options open.
Again due to my experience as an apprentice I am also working part time as a technician to support myself through education, which seems to be a hell of a lot better standard of work than my fellow students who are stuck in supermarkets, kitchens and other unrelated work. So I would say that going for the more workplace orientated means of progression is more fulfilling, even if it takes you a year or two longer to reach your end goal.
My only tip would be, don't do a 'wierd' course. Stick to Mechanical or Electrical engineering, unless you have planned out your clear avenue of progression, I took a year out to do 'systems engineering' HNC only to find out that it was essentially a waste of time as it wasn't enough to get my on to any further mechanical or electrical course as it contained some modules from both, but was still missing several.
Also sitting my C+E licence this year... gotta keep my options open.
joshleb said:
If the option is there, I would always recommend university, just for the life experience!
Me and all my mates matured so much during our 3/4 years and we had a couple of mates who stayed at home to do work based courses
Must be true for some, but sadly most of the graduates I meet are basically 18 years old with 3/4 years experience. I'd say getting up to go to work every day, spending all day in an office/site with a bunch of grumpy old blokes would help a teenager grow at least as quickly.Me and all my mates matured so much during our 3/4 years and we had a couple of mates who stayed at home to do work based courses
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Good point, a good engineering degree does not limit you to engineering.fat80b said:
I would have thought the decision should not be made on the near term earning potential vs debt but the actual long term career opportunities. I'm still of the view that the traditional approach yields a greater chance of success (not that you won't find successful and non-successful people taking all routes).
Perhaps I wasn't clear in what I said, but I'd recommend the apprentice route leading into a part-time degree and even masters. If you can. Get your employer to find it, or even day release, it makes a hell of a lot more sense than going to Uni.My colleague did an apprenticeship, bachelor's, masters and currently an MBA. He's not even 30.
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