Best route for a career in engineering?
Discussion
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Not to derail the thread as I think it is relevant to the OPs son too, but that does raise a query I have had on my mind for a while, and I know there are a lot of managerial/hiring types on here:Does having a degree not supersede much of your school work? Will hiring managers still take into account your GSCE/A-levels (or equiv's) if you have say, a 1st or 2nd class engineering degree for a graduate job? Even if it is in a different field, surely an engi degree shows you have competence in maths & other numerical subjects to at least an A level level.
And on another note, is several years of workplace experience not more desirable than better school marks when you have your degree?
Just curious, I was a little s
t in school and didn't leave with much, kind of turning my life around in my 20s, now have 2 A level HNCs and a A level HND to my name & a couple of years experience with spanners. Also the reason I recommend the Apprenticeship>HNC>HND>Degree route is that if at any point you decide 'this is not what I want to do' you at least have 'something' more than just being a uni drop out. I remember sitting my HNC and loads of folk dropping out throughout the year to go back to spanner-ey type jobs as they realised that actual engineering is all numbers and minimal actual practical work (make sure your son knows this, it is a MASSIVE kick in the teeth if he doesn't)
caelite said:
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Not to derail the thread as I think it is relevant to the OPs son too, but that does raise a query I have had on my mind for a while, and I know there are a lot of managerial/hiring types on here:Does having a degree not supersede much of your school work? Will hiring managers still take into account your GSCE/A-levels (or equiv's) if you have say, a 1st or 2nd class engineering degree for a graduate job? Even if it is in a different field, surely an engi degree shows you have competence in maths & other numerical subjects to at least an A level level.
And on another note, is several years of workplace experience not more desirable than better school marks when you have your degree?
Just curious, I was a little s
t in school and didn't leave with much, kind of turning my life around in my 20s, now have 2 A level HNCs and a A level HND to my name & a couple of years experience with spanners. Also the reason I recommend the Apprenticeship>HNC>HND>Degree route is that if at any point you decide 'this is not what I want to do' you at least have 'something' more than just being a uni drop out. I remember sitting my HNC and loads of folk dropping out throughout the year to go back to spanner-ey type jobs as they realised that actual engineering is all numbers and minimal actual practical work (make sure your son knows this, it is a MASSIVE kick in the teeth if he doesn't)
On the flip side I've hired (and even a couple through here) into design/project/production engineering roles Engineering grads with zero to 2 years experience.
We didn't even look at external HNC/HND types for these roles. There were a few reasons for this but there is no shortage of degree qualified engineers out there (2012/13). The nature of the project these grads were hired onto meant they were never going to stick around forever but I know they have all gone onto successful engineering careers.
From a personal side all my friends went on to do degrees. All those who wanted to go into engineering and did and engineering based degree made it with no real issues.
Other things I won't write too much about but worth researching is the perception and (de)valuation of apprenticeship/HND route. You can get apprenticeships in all sorts of rubbish these days. That said, you could make a similar argument for degrees.
caelite said:
Does having a degree not supersede much of your school work? Will hiring managers still take into account your GSCE/A-levels (or equiv's) if you have say, a 1st or 2nd class engineering degree for a graduate job? Even if it is in a different field, surely an engi degree shows you have competence in maths & other numerical subjects to at least an A level level.
Sadly, some lazy HR teams use GCSE and A levels as a filter for Graduate Scheme applications (as well as a 2:i minimum). I knew a guy with a 1st in Aerospace MEng that got rejected from Airbus because his GCSE/A levels didn't meet the criteria. Went to Astrium instead...The big companies can simply afford to be fussy and HR depts lazy. It doesn't massively limit your opportunities though.
If you're not looking at graduate schemes then you should be okay.
I'm a degree qualified Engineer (BEng Auto Design) and have 6 or 7 years experience in the industry.
To be honest, for someone who is trying to decide what route to take, I'm not sure I'd recommend following what I've done nowadays. First of all, as mentioned above, engineering degrees are all high level mathematics in classrooms, not much hands on stuff like what might be expected. Some of it is really mind melting stuff and it can be pretty stressful.
With the massive increase recently in tuition fees, you'd want to be fairly certain that you're going to stick it out, and then actually build an engineering career afterwards.
Also, it's often pretty boring. For every race car design role, there are probably 1000 sewage valve designers. Personally I tend to stick out a few years at a particular role before I really want to leave and do something else.
On the plus side, I can always find a decent paying job pretty easily and the degree gives me options for moving abroad.
If I was doing it all again though I think I'd do marine biology.
To be honest, for someone who is trying to decide what route to take, I'm not sure I'd recommend following what I've done nowadays. First of all, as mentioned above, engineering degrees are all high level mathematics in classrooms, not much hands on stuff like what might be expected. Some of it is really mind melting stuff and it can be pretty stressful.
With the massive increase recently in tuition fees, you'd want to be fairly certain that you're going to stick it out, and then actually build an engineering career afterwards.
Also, it's often pretty boring. For every race car design role, there are probably 1000 sewage valve designers. Personally I tend to stick out a few years at a particular role before I really want to leave and do something else.
On the plus side, I can always find a decent paying job pretty easily and the degree gives me options for moving abroad.
If I was doing it all again though I think I'd do marine biology.
Thanks lads
Honestly what you say edc kind of worries me about not employing grads for hands on work. I have heard it before from numerous sources, I really want to go for the full degree as I would like to work overseas ultimately and being uni educated, particularly in engi/law/med etc, scores big points in countries like the US and Aus during the immigration process. In Scotland it is free so it kind of is a no-brainer it seems if you can stomach a few years of near-poverty earnings. I am still in the hopes that the work/hiring situation may be different there where there is a supposed lack of good engineers in comparison to the UK with its seemingly ever dwindling production industry. Ultimately I am not happy unless I am shoulder deep in something greasy, my current part time role as a driver/diesel technician (generators) suites me perfectly. I have been offered to go full time a couple of times during my HND and every time I read something like that it slightly diminishes my willpower to turn him down.
And again I do find it suprising that companies factor in school marks, as you say it is lazy and they can afford to do so, it just seems so irrelevant, as someone here mentioned, people can and do change drastically in the few years after leaving school, I am still in my early 20s and I genuinely don't think I remember anything I 'learned' in a lot of my non-science based subjects, some pish about glacial skree and writing a sub standard report on the fantastic works of George Orwell, I struggled to see how any of it was relevant then, and still don't now.
Honestly what you say edc kind of worries me about not employing grads for hands on work. I have heard it before from numerous sources, I really want to go for the full degree as I would like to work overseas ultimately and being uni educated, particularly in engi/law/med etc, scores big points in countries like the US and Aus during the immigration process. In Scotland it is free so it kind of is a no-brainer it seems if you can stomach a few years of near-poverty earnings. I am still in the hopes that the work/hiring situation may be different there where there is a supposed lack of good engineers in comparison to the UK with its seemingly ever dwindling production industry. Ultimately I am not happy unless I am shoulder deep in something greasy, my current part time role as a driver/diesel technician (generators) suites me perfectly. I have been offered to go full time a couple of times during my HND and every time I read something like that it slightly diminishes my willpower to turn him down.
And again I do find it suprising that companies factor in school marks, as you say it is lazy and they can afford to do so, it just seems so irrelevant, as someone here mentioned, people can and do change drastically in the few years after leaving school, I am still in my early 20s and I genuinely don't think I remember anything I 'learned' in a lot of my non-science based subjects, some pish about glacial skree and writing a sub standard report on the fantastic works of George Orwell, I struggled to see how any of it was relevant then, and still don't now.
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Every single one of my Engineering degree buddies left to do something else - banking, sales, accountancy. The money just isn't there in the UK unfortunately (with maybe the exception of a few niche areas).caelite said:
Ultimately I am not happy unless I am shoulder deep in something greasy, my current part time role as a driver/diesel technician (generators) suites me perfectly. I have been offered to go full time a couple of times during my HND and every time I read something like that it slightly diminishes my willpower to turn him down.
I used to be like you but getting dirty soon gets boring! Plus when you work all day on the tools you find that you cant be arsed to do the interesting stuff you did for a hobby. May just be me though! Like it or not and the Engineering field isn't alone hiring managers will look at your academic track record. When you have no or little work experience this can be one of the few ways to assess achievement, consistency and potential. Of course, as you get experience under your belt the pendulum swings. Some companies however will always look at the academic results in full.
When you have to filter potentially hundreds of applications you need to have some way to find the best ones for your organisation. Applicants may not like it but most people know it exists.
When you have to filter potentially hundreds of applications you need to have some way to find the best ones for your organisation. Applicants may not like it but most people know it exists.
Derek Chevalier said:
Every single one of my Engineering degree buddies left to do something else - banking, sales, accountancy. The money just isn't there in the UK unfortunately (with maybe the exception of a few niche areas).
A valid point (I'm an Operational Analyst with an Aeronautical Engineering degree), but then again a degree and few years experience in that industry gets you to a position where you've got a better chance getting in to some of those areas. I got in to OA from doing a lot of test and analysis on jet engines, a mate who's a programmer got in to control theory from his Chemical Engineering Degree. A Maths/Science/Engineering degree opens a lot of doors in a range of technical jobs as they all imply decent numeracy and an inquiring mind.But, most tend to be desk jobs. If you want to get in to hands on engineering then an apprenticeship and work your way up might well be a better bet.
If he wants to be an engineer, doing technical work throughout his career, consider the vocational route over A levels, degree, chartered status via a graduate route.
If he feels that, ultimately, he wants to be in the business of engineering rather than the technical 'doing' then A levels and a degree every time
If he feels that, ultimately, he wants to be in the business of engineering rather than the technical 'doing' then A levels and a degree every time
Derek Chevalier said:
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Every single one of my Engineering degree buddies left to do something else - banking, sales, accountancy. The money just isn't there in the UK unfortunately (with maybe the exception of a few niche areas).Otispunkmeyer said:
Derek Chevalier said:
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Every single one of my Engineering degree buddies left to do something else - banking, sales, accountancy. The money just isn't there in the UK unfortunately (with maybe the exception of a few niche areas).edc said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Derek Chevalier said:
edc said:
If you want to keep your options open then don't discount A levels then Engineering degree. This will be more versatile and saleable should your son change his mind. I have a couple of friends who had good A levels and good engineering degrees who have gone into consultancy and investment banking.
Every single one of my Engineering degree buddies left to do something else - banking, sales, accountancy. The money just isn't there in the UK unfortunately (with maybe the exception of a few niche areas).
Ultimately, all depends where you end up. My job is a lot of desk time and meetings, but I do spend time outside with big green metal boxes doing things that you dream of as a kid.
Other friends have gone into forces, Airbus, airline pilots, their own business etc I don't think any of us spend all day staring at a screen and full of regret.
Other friends have gone into forces, Airbus, airline pilots, their own business etc I don't think any of us spend all day staring at a screen and full of regret.
Maybe all those organisations bemoaning the lack of suitable engineers - should read this thread… they probably won’t as the truth is always inconvenient and usually hurts.
As stated above, it’s a good route into other areas, usually where the pay is much better. Or you become a contractor after being shat on once too often…
As stated above, it’s a good route into other areas, usually where the pay is much better. Or you become a contractor after being shat on once too often…
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