Redundancy advice

[BucksFizz]

andy-xr said:

Negotiating a settlement is different, and if you have the opportunity to do that then you should absolutely do it, either on your own or with insured advice.

I'm not holding any cards so I don't see how I can negotiate for anything? All I am getting is statutory redundancy pay and possibly PILON (they haven't decided yet).

[andy-xr]

BucksFizz said:

I'm not holding any cards so I don't see how I can negotiate for anything? All I am getting is statutory redundancy pay and possibly PILON (they haven't decided yet).

Well, depending on how long you've been there, you could sign away your rights to claim for certain things retrospectively, though some rights will always be there. This though needs insured advice and it would help if you're a pregnant black gay lady, but there are still some cards you hold. Dont forget your holiday entitlement

[edc]

andy-xr said:

BucksFizz said:

I'm not holding any cards so I don't see how I can negotiate for anything? All I am getting is statutory redundancy pay and possibly PILON (they haven't decided yet).

Well, depending on how long you've been there, you could sign away your rights to claim for certain things retrospectively, though some rights will always be there. This though needs insured advice and it would help if you're a pregnant black gay lady, but there are still some cards you hold. Dont forget your holiday entitlement

Unless the company has a habit of using a settlement agreement for all redundancy leavers then there is nothing to sign. You can appeal as part of the process but you need to have a basis for an appeal not just an appeal for the sake of it or that you don't like the decision. Then you have to think what you are trying to achieve through an appeal. Unless you build a case for some form of unfair dismissal then you don't really hold any cards. Even if the company has seriously erred during the process itself you have to question whether any extra payment you might receive as recompense is going to be worth the effort. Accrued and unused holiday is contractual. You should not need to negotiate this.

I would place your primary focus on finding another role. If you have any spare capacity, desire or mental willingness to appeal then do that as well.

[Angrybiker]

Roman Rhodes said:

BucksFizz said:

Not really, the scoring criteria makes no mention of it, not only that but the people doing the scoring are asset strippers new to the business, they've only joined a couple of months ago and they work from home most of the time so they have no idea about sickness, punctuality etc.

I am surprised so many of you are suggesting rolling over and taking it, it's not like I am getting a huge redundancy payout (works out about 3 months NET pay). I have no doubt there are better places to work but I guess I am worried I may struggle to earn the same salary as I do now.

How long have you been employed there? 3 months net pay might be a 'good' deal.

Yes. I believe statutory minimum is 1 week per year of service so 3 months is not too bad unless you've been there more than 12 years. And I expect that sum will come with a 'compromise agreement' which basically boils down to 'don't share confidential info and don't badmouth us for 6 months'. Sometimes there's also a 'don't work for a direct competitor for 6 months' but you can likely negotiate that out or just ignore it.

And it's tax free up to 30k (I think that's the celling) so 3 months NET pay = 3 months NET pay = 3 months for you to get another job and you have no interruption to savings goals.

[anonymous-user]

Angrybiker said:

Yes. I believe statutory minimum is 1 week per year of service so 3 months is not too bad unless you've been there more than 12 years. And I expect that sum will come with a 'compromise agreement' which basically boils down to 'don't share confidential info and don't badmouth us for 6 months'. Sometimes there's also a 'don't work for a direct competitor for 6 months' but you can likely negotiate that out or just ignore it.

And it's tax free up to 30k (I think that's the celling) so 3 months NET pay = 3 months NET pay = 3 months for you to get another job and you have no interruption to savings goals.

Wouldn't need to be there for 12 years to get 3 months net - as you say, no tax up to £30k. All depends on what the OP is paid weekly (think the max stat is c. £480/wk). Can't see the need for a compromise agreement in a straightforward redundancy (which is what it seems). Worth clarifying whether pay in lieu of notice could be tax free too.

Agree - view it as 3 months breathing space to find something better hopefully!

[BucksFizz]

Roman Rhodes said:

Worth clarifying whether pay in lieu of notice could be tax free too.

I asked this and they said it was tax evasion and illegal, but I'm not sure they fully understand the options as there is nothing in my contract which states PILON, e.g. consider it an advanced payment in damages/compensation.

[omniflow]

Redundancy payments are tax free up to £30K. PILON is NOT a redundancy payment so it's not tax free. It's also quite bizarre that other cash payments - e.g. car allowance etc are not included in any PILON payment. I attempted to present a logical argument to that one, more than once, and got absolutely no-where. If you actually worked your notice you would receive these payments, but if the company forces you to take PILON then you don't. Having said that, who in their right mind actually wants to work their notice.

Also, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that any redundancy process is fair and above board. It isn't. Chances are all the names were on a list from the very beginning. Everything else that's happened has just been window dressing to make it look like the company is following due process.

[BucksFizz]

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm now spending my energy looking for a new role but now I have a new question.

How do I handle a recruiter who asks me why I want to leave my existing job? Normally I would explain how I am looking for a more mutually beneficial role and how I feel my skills are an excellent match.

While this may still be true it may come across insincere if they then find out that I'm in an redundancy pool or I've been made redundant, especially when the new role is less well paid. I fear they will simply think I am applying for the job because I am desperate and not because I genuinely want the role.

[DanL]

BucksFizz said:

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm now spending my energy looking for a new role but now I have a new question.

How do I handle a recruiter who asks me why I want to leave my existing job? Normally I would explain how I am looking for a more mutually beneficial role and how I feel my skills are an excellent match

So far as I know there's no reason not to tell a recruiter that you "need" a new job. If nothing else, it means that you're available sooner to start, and are more likely to take a role if it's offered - from a recruiter's perspective you could be a better bet for commission than someone who's looking around but isn't committed to leaving.

During interview with however you're put forward to - that's a different matter, as you'll need to sell yourself as being the right person for the role.

[andy-xr]

BucksFizz said:

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm now spending my energy looking for a new role but now I have a new question.

How do I handle a recruiter who asks me why I want to leave my existing job? Normally I would explain how I am looking for a more mutually beneficial role and how I feel my skills are an excellent match.

While this may still be true it may come across insincere if they then find out that I'm in an redundancy pool or I've been made redundant, especially when the new role is less well paid. I fear they will simply think I am applying for the job because I am desperate and not because I genuinely want the role.

You can openly say you're going through a redundancy process.

There's usually two ways someone will come across when/after being made redundant.
1. fk you, fk them and fk the horse they rode in on
2. A chance to openly view the market and explore new opportunities

Redundancy is a very straight reason that no-one will dig further in to and many or most companies interviewing you will understand your position.

[Angrybiker]

Roman Rhodes said:

Angrybiker said:

Yes. I believe statutory minimum is 1 week per year of service so 3 months is not too bad unless you've been there more than 12 years. And I expect that sum will come with a 'compromise agreement' which basically boils down to 'don't share confidential info and don't badmouth us for 6 months'. Sometimes there's also a 'don't work for a direct competitor for 6 months' but you can likely negotiate that out or just ignore it.

And it's tax free up to 30k (I think that's the celling) so 3 months NET pay = 3 months NET pay = 3 months for you to get another job and you have no interruption to savings goals.

Wouldn't need to be there for 12 years to get 3 months net - as you say, no tax up to £30k. All depends on what the OP is paid weekly (think the max stat is c. £480/wk). Can't see the need for a compromise agreement in a straightforward redundancy (which is what it seems). Worth clarifying whether pay in lieu of notice could be tax free too.

Agree - view it as 3 months breathing space to find something better hopefully!

yeah there's just more often than not a compromise when they're paying more than stat. Because from their perspective they're being 'generous', want something in return and typically they hate bad publicity.

[Angrybiker]

andy-xr said:

BucksFizz said:

Thanks for the advice everyone, I'm now spending my energy looking for a new role but now I have a new question.

How do I handle a recruiter who asks me why I want to leave my existing job? Normally I would explain how I am looking for a more mutually beneficial role and how I feel my skills are an excellent match.

While this may still be true it may come across insincere if they then find out that I'm in an redundancy pool or I've been made redundant, especially when the new role is less well paid. I fear they will simply think I am applying for the job because I am desperate and not because I genuinely want the role.

You can openly say you're going through a redundancy process.

There's usually two ways someone will come across when/after being made redundant.
1. fk you, fk them and fk the horse they rode in on
2. A chance to openly view the market and explore new opportunities

Redundancy is a very straight reason that no-one will dig further in to and many or most companies interviewing you will understand your position.

Just say - company is going through consultation; you're pretty sure you're not personally at risk because you have a good record of performance and attendance etc. but you never know, prudent to hedge your bets, and to be honest it's about time to change really so it's just a convenient time.

[LittleBigPlanet]

I went through this about four years ago and one thing stuck with me that a friend said at the time: "Very few people end up in a worse position after being made redundant".

It's true, certainly in my experience and those of us that were affected - those that took the money were happy (of course it could always be more), those that had stagnated in their roles got a chance to reevaluate their prospects and their position in the market (all have gone on to better positions now) and those that stayed (including me) got new roles which have opened up other opportunities.

It's easy to be disheartened with the process and feel that it's unfair (it is), you'll start to compare yourself to other people and not understand the decision-making process, but forget that quickly. Focus on making yourself as employable as possible - update your CV and LinkedIn, speak with recruiters, network at conferences/events etc.

It's a bit like splitting up with a girlfriend - wallow around and feel miserable and try to get her back or hit the gym and buy some new clothes

Good luck.

[BucksFizz]

Coincidentally before the process started I discussed with my colleagues that nobody will end up going to a worse job than what they currently have, and that it is probably a blessing in disguise.

I have a job interview lined up, I just hope I recover from my current sickness in time to do myself justice. It would be great if I can collect my redundancy money and walk into another job.

Appreciate the advice so far.

Edited by BucksFizz on Wednesday 20th September 11:46

[DukeDickson]

BucksFizz said:

Not really, the scoring criteria makes no mention of it, not only that but the people doing the scoring are asset strippers new to the business, they've only joined a couple of months ago and they work from home most of the time so they have no idea about sickness, punctuality etc.

I am surprised so many of you are suggesting rolling over and taking it, it's not like I am getting a huge redundancy payout (works out about 3 months NET pay). I have no doubt there are better places to work but I guess I am worried I may struggle to earn the same salary as I do now.

The simple answer is, unless you're in a position of 2 aces Vs a non-suited 9 and 3 (or something similar), the decision has been made. You can appeal, scream and shout & it will make life mildly awkward for your employer, for a little while, but if they want rid, they will and at worst (for them) a slightly higher cost. If you don't have valuable knowledge/skills/experience/contacts/dirt, you're boned, unfortunately. Or occasionally, you just cost way too much to ditch, but TBH, that's rather a rare bird.


So, your efforts are better spent looking at what to do next, rather than a battle you're very unlikely to win.

[ruggedscotty]

I am surprised so many of you are suggesting rolling over and taking it, it's not like I am getting a huge redundancy payout (works out about 3 months NET pay). I have no doubt there are better places to work but I guess I am worried I may struggle to earn the same salary as I do now.

You may struggle to earn the same salary... well we all do in that situation - You have to change the mind set though or you will struggle. You got that salary for working there, they have now decided that wont be working there for much longer so get used to that. Ive been through it before and I have seen just how negative that can influence the getting over being made redundant.

You need to be proactive quit the winge and get on with finding another job. I knew a guy who witched and fought and won his case to be kept on and a few months later he absolutely hated it, said he should have taken the pittance of a payoff and got another job.

[BucksFizz]

My employer has to give me 8 weeks notice but as of yet they can't decide if they want me to work my notice or not, my contract states they reserve the right to pay in lieu of notice.

The thing is I really don't want to work my notice, who in their mind right would? Just this week other people have been let go and have been PILON.

My problem is I have a job interview coming up and if I am successful they would like me to start as soon as possible, a 2 month wait my jeopardise my chances and of course if I resign (4 week notice my side) I'll do myself out of the redundancy payment.

Not a great situation.

[yajeed]

BucksFizz said:

My employer has to give me 8 weeks notice but as of yet they can't decide if they want me to work my notice or not, my contract states they reserve the right to pay in lieu of notice.

The thing is I really don't want to work my notice, who in their mind right would? Just this week other people have been let go and have been PILON.

My problem is I have a job interview coming up and if I am successful they would like me to start as soon as possible, a 2 month wait my jeopardise my chances and of course if I resign (4 week notice my side) I'll do myself out of the redundancy payment.

Not a great situation.

In the past I've had frank discussions with employees who are put at risk. If they were to say 'I've been offered another role, they want me to start on x, would it be possible to change my end date', I can't imagine anyone saying no. Ultimately, you're leaving because of them, the least they can do is ease the transition as much as possible.

[RizzoTheRat]

In case you don't move straight in to another job...

It's worth paying the job centre a visit as soon as you're out of work. If you're in any kind of vaguely technical or managerial role they'll be about as much us a chocolate teapot in helping you find a job, but if you've paid NI for the last few (3 I think) years you're entitled to JSA, and it they'll pay your NI meaning it wont impact your state pension.

[anonymous-user]

omniflow said:

Redundancy payments are tax free up to £30K. PILON is NOT a redundancy payment so it's not tax free. It's also quite bizarre that other cash payments - e.g. car allowance etc are not included in any PILON payment. I attempted to present a logical argument to that one, more than once, and got absolutely no-where. If you actually worked your notice you would receive these payments, but if the company forces you to take PILON then you don't. Having said that, who in their right mind actually wants to work their notice.

Also, please don't fall into the trap of thinking that any redundancy process is fair and above board. It isn't. Chances are all the names were on a list from the very beginning. Everything else that's happened has just been window dressing to make it look like the company is following due process.

If he has no contractual right to PILON then there is likely a breach of contract by terminating early. The payment isn't a payment under the terms of his contract (taxable) but is an advance payment of damages and falls into the tax free up to £30k category. I believe. OP to seek his own advice rather than take guidance from random internet bloke.