Difficulty recruiting, suggestions?

Difficulty recruiting, suggestions?

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21TonyK

Original Poster:

11,494 posts

208 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
I'm having a few difficulties recruiting (or even getting applications) for a specific role.

I am looking for a person to work in a school kitchen as a cook/chef. Issue is that the level of cooking is significantly higher than most school.

For example chicken chasseur, pomme boulongere with fine beans or char-grilled tuna steak with gremolata, ratatouille, fresh herb gnocci.

Previously the role was graded at around £8.50 per hour with a basic (NVQ 2) qualification as a requirement and was only advertised on the council and schools website.

Not one application, even after several months.

Changed the advert to say a qualification was desirable and convinced HR to actually pay for an advert on Indeed (rolleyes)

One application. Interviewed very well, lots of experience but a useless cook, old school, literally. Despite my concerns they were appointed under pressure from HR and management but only on a temporary contract.

They stayed 5 weeks before deciding it was not for them.

That whole process has taken 8 months.

So now we are advertising again and I want to attract a higher level of applicant. I've managed to get the role upgraded to a permanent position on £10.80 per hour which might help but the hours are pretty much set in stone.

I've thinking the advert should be aimed at chefs, not existing school cooks. Realistically no chef is going to only be looking at 19 hours a week but might want the security of a permanent role which they can supplement with higher value agency work of which there is a lot locally.

Advert would show a salary which would be circa £18K (£7.8k pro-rata) emphasising the pension, the fact it is term time only (39 weeks), flexible hours, always finished by 2pm. no weekends or evenings.

Anyone suggest anything else or an alternative approach?

Also going to try to get HR to pay for it to be advertised on caterer.com

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
My ex wife is a qualified chief, owns her own restaurant, worked in a few big hotels, even done a stint offshore, when we lived in the UK in the 90's she worked as head cook in a local comp, we had young twins, who went to the infant/junior school next door, it was a great job, school holidays no child care cost, money wasn't great but overall financial position was fine and she kept her hand in the job market, the school thought she was fantastic, advertise the job you could just get lucky on who applies.
She was European not British and the only issue I remember was she needed to do some sort of hygiene course in the UK, school arranged and paid for that.

Steve Campbell

2,110 posts

167 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
As with any role as recruited or recruiter, network is important. Have you tried tapping into the school PTA and parents to see if that flushes anyone out ?

21TonyK

Original Poster:

11,494 posts

208 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all

Pretty much used every in-house avenue I can think of, PTA, school facebook, school newletter, newsletters at other local schools.

Basically anything that is free as schools find it very alien having to pay for recruitment.

Going to add benefits such as supportive team, food hygiene of 5 (as this can be unusual for a chef!) plus they have access to all the toys chefs like (probably say extensively equipped modern kitchen)

bigandclever

13,750 posts

237 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
21TonyK said:
Pretty much used every in-house avenue I can think of, PTA, school facebook, school newletter, newsletters at other local schools.
Probably stating the obvious, but won't you get more response from cheffy-type job sites? caterer, chefjobs, chefquik, chefcrossing ....

21TonyK

Original Poster:

11,494 posts

208 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
bigandclever said:
Probably stating the obvious, but won't you get more response from cheffy-type job sites? caterer, chefjobs, chefquik, chefcrossing ....
Yep, that's the obvious answer but as mentioned, the concept of paying for an advert is almost unheard of here!

It's something I will be suggesting if they don't get a response to indeed and their "free" methods.

"free" meaning it doesn't cost them money out of a budget, but it does cost them the goodwill of a kitchen team "a man down" for nearly a year!

(although strangely I still have time to post this with 96 orders in for lunch laugh)

BoRED S2upid

19,641 posts

239 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Your paying £8k a year for a decent chef. That's your problem. Your target market is tiny who would want it? Someone semi retired a not so stay at home mum? No wonder your having trouble.

StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
The days of getting half-decent staff on or around min-wage levels have long gone.

In any year, we employ upwards of 30 or 40 people to work on short to medium term contracts that involve no previous experience but a certain amount of 'nous'. Two years ago, we'd have no issue attracting decent people on an hourly wage of £7.50 to £8.50.

Today, we are paying £11 to £15 an hour for the same work and still struggle to attract enough people.

We live in an age of perceived entitlement. Everyone has a degree and expects to work for a wage commensurate with the perceived status that affords. I can only assume that they have achieved this as those few that apply for the lower-paying roles tend to be the knuckle-draggers of society.

The irony is that is largely public sector institutions that suffer the most as they can not afford the costs associated with labour - focused projects or services that rely on lower-paid staff yet it was they and their left-leaning support groups that pushed for and got higher wages for the lower earning in society.



21TonyK

Original Poster:

11,494 posts

208 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
Completely agree about the pay but it's not going to change although it is possible the hours may increase in the foreseeable future.

My daughter earns more an hour working in Sainsburys as a barely 19 year old student.

This is the challenge.

AshBurrows

2,552 posts

161 months

Friday 15th September 2017
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"Why won't someone really good work for £8K a year?"


CountZero23

1,288 posts

177 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
21TonyK said:
Completely agree about the pay but it's not going to change although it is possible the hours may increase in the foreseeable future.

My daughter earns more an hour working in Sainsbury's as a barely 19 year old student.

This is the challenge.
Would have thought it could suit one of the mums whose kids are at the school as I'm assuming the hours would work for them. Have you tried reaching out to them?

You've summed up the issue above. You're offering a low unskilled wage for a skilled job.

Only other option might be to contact the local college and try to recruit from their pool of graduating students who would be keen to get some experience.



21TonyK

Original Poster:

11,494 posts

208 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
AshBurrows said:
"Why won't someone really good work for £8K a year?"

Why won't someone work for £10.80 an hour plus local authority pension and job security that fits around shcool times and holidays is more accurate.

AshBurrows

2,552 posts

161 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
21TonyK said:
Why won't someone work for £10.80 an hour plus local authority pension and job security that fits around shcool times and holidays is more accurate.
Because it's 8k a year. Hope this helps.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
OP - I worked in the Academies sector a while ago and one of the things I had to do was recruit an "Executive Chef". This was somebody who would be sitting above the Catering Manager and do stuff like develop menus, get involved in marketing the catering facilities, develop the commercial side of the business etc, To get anybody halfway decent we had to pay above £25k per annum. Decent candidates were expecting £32k upwards.

Basically I don't think you're paying enough. You have to tell the budget holders that they get what they pay for. £8.50 is enough for a Head Dinner Lady who will spend most of her time keeping the other dinner ladies in line, not doing the business development side.

Frank7

6,619 posts

86 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
Your paying £8k a year for a decent chef. That's your problem. Your target market is tiny who would want it? Someone semi retired a not so stay at home mum? No wonder your having trouble.
I have a nephew who is a school chef in central London, no idea of his salary, it's hardly the done thing to ask.
He and his wife and kids do live in a Housing Association apartment though.
His wife works in some kind of secretarial capacity at another school, they go to the U.S. for their main vacation every year, and have the odd weekend in this country.
They recently paid for their elder son to spend 3 weeks in Argentina, and for the younger one to have a week in Cyprus, plus they pay the rent on the elder son's flat while he's at Uni.
So I'm guessing that my nephew wouldn't get out of bed for £8k per year.

bigandclever

13,750 posts

237 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
21TonyK said:
char-grilled tuna steak with gremolata
I tell you what though, that photo elsewhere on PH looks delicious smile

ATG

20,485 posts

271 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
21TonyK said:
AshBurrows said:
"Why won't someone really good work for £8K a year?"

Why won't someone work for £10.80 an hour plus local authority pension and job security that fits around shcool times and holidays is more accurate.
Coz it still isn't a competitive package. Unemployment is low and their are loads of job vacancies. You're in competition with other employers to hire staff. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. If no one is even applying at the moment and you can't improve the offer, then the safest assumption is that you aren't gong to be able to fill the role and that your current staff may well find that they too could improve their packages by leaving, so retention may become a problem.

Frank7

6,619 posts

86 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
AshBurrows said:
21TonyK said:
Why won't someone work for £10.80 an hour plus local authority pension and job security that fits around shcool times and holidays is more accurate.
Because it's 8k a year. Hope this helps.
OP says it's £10.80 per hour, and a 19 hour week, that's £205.20 p.w.
No idea of the school year, but a 40 week year = £8,208, even if it was
a 48 week year it would only be £9,850, and a school won't be 48 weeks.
My 2 pensions come to £11,880 p.a., so even I wouldn't do it, (if I could cook).

Wobbegong

15,077 posts

168 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
Your paying £8k a year for a decent chef. That's your problem. Your target market is tiny who would want it? Someone semi retired a not so stay at home mum? No wonder your having trouble.
yes


StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Friday 15th September 2017
quotequote all
This is a part of the whole Brexit thing that many people fail to grasp.

A great many of these lower paid roles are taken by those from low income EU countries willing to come and work here at a wage less than the indigenous population. Free-movement allows and supports this.

Restrict that, even by a small amount, and vacancies will go unfilled and many of these are critical to the general operation of society.