Paid Bereavement Leave
Discussion
I don't want to meet the person who goes back to work after losing a child with only 5 days off.
If anyone says they'd be able to work by then they'd be lying.
Took a week off after my step dad (lived with him since the age of 2) passed away fairly suddenly then another day for the funeral and another day (all paid thankfully) when the affairs got a bit much.
If anyone says they'd be able to work by then they'd be lying.
Took a week off after my step dad (lived with him since the age of 2) passed away fairly suddenly then another day for the funeral and another day (all paid thankfully) when the affairs got a bit much.
Edited by Miocene on Monday 16th October 22:53
My dad died unexpectedly 24th December 2014, I went back to work on either Monday the 29th or Tuesday the 30th, I had 5 or 6 days off but as it was Christmas only 2 or 3 were paid.
That time was sufficient for me, any longer and you end up just wallowing in it, I needed to get back into things, however my mind was all over the show until the funeral.
The funeral was towards the end of January so I had another paid day off.
Work were great and I'm sure they would have let me have more time off if needed, fortunately I didn't have to get involved in any of dad's affairs, the b
h that he married did all that eventually and neither myself or my sister got a look in, she then promptly fked off with the lot, but that's a different story!
That time was sufficient for me, any longer and you end up just wallowing in it, I needed to get back into things, however my mind was all over the show until the funeral.
The funeral was towards the end of January so I had another paid day off.
Work were great and I'm sure they would have let me have more time off if needed, fortunately I didn't have to get involved in any of dad's affairs, the b
h that he married did all that eventually and neither myself or my sister got a look in, she then promptly fked off with the lot, but that's a different story!Edited by HTP99 on Tuesday 17th October 08:14
I think it depends on who they were, a colleague had 3 or 4 months off paid when his wife passed away (both mid 30's), I had a day or two when my grandparents did (for the funeral), I'd have no problem in signing anyone off for weeks / months of their child died, long lost Auntie Marie ... maybe not.
Used to work with a bloke , by phone know as Grumpy X.
He was a right ahole, miserable, unhelpful and generally not a nice person. I found out some time later that his Son had committed suicide. That gave me some understanding but It was also noted it was a number of years ago. Whilst people were sympathetic his demeanour had become permanent and everybody had to tiptoe around him and put up with poor performance.
At the other end of the scale My Mrs (mgr) told me she had to go in and cover a job as one of the staff was off sick due to a bereavement. They were in a bad way and couldn't get out of bed without breaking down etcetera. It turned out it was his dog that had died. I know people love their dogs but I'm amazed at how many stop work because of it.
In answer to the OP, one or two weeks is usually sufficient. If it is a particulally difficult scenario they may need more. I'd lean towards offering half pay rather than forcing someone back to work ho does not want to be there and will not be productive in any way.
He was a right a
hole, miserable, unhelpful and generally not a nice person. I found out some time later that his Son had committed suicide. That gave me some understanding but It was also noted it was a number of years ago. Whilst people were sympathetic his demeanour had become permanent and everybody had to tiptoe around him and put up with poor performance.At the other end of the scale My Mrs (mgr) told me she had to go in and cover a job as one of the staff was off sick due to a bereavement. They were in a bad way and couldn't get out of bed without breaking down etcetera. It turned out it was his dog that had died. I know people love their dogs but I'm amazed at how many stop work because of it.
In answer to the OP, one or two weeks is usually sufficient. If it is a particulally difficult scenario they may need more. I'd lean towards offering half pay rather than forcing someone back to work ho does not want to be there and will not be productive in any way.
Posting as someone who lost their dad suddenly, and as a manager of people who've lost loved ones.
I don't think there is a one size fits all, and I also think, this is when both employees and employers show 'who they are'.
When my dad died, I'll openly admit I didn't grieve it properly, and I paid the price for it later on. I felt I had to get back into work ASAP - I returned between his death and the funeral - because I needed a sense of normality. I think in total I took maybe 4 days off. I won't deny I was absolutely useless in the office, but the support I had from my employer was phenomenal. I couldn't have asked for more.
As a manager, I've always tried to use the HR rules as guidelines that we enforce if people kick it too far. There was a chap I managed who was off for a long time as his wife died of terminal cancer. It was horrific. He was a larger than life character and you could tell he was hurting badly, even when he came back several months after her death. I told him he just needed to take every day as it came, and if he needed to go for a walk and a coffee with people in the team, he could do that.
He paid me back in spades in the coming months with absolute loyalty to me and the team, working exceptionally hard for us. Others in the team saw this happen and it really helped galvanise our spirit. Sounds like management nonsense, but a bit of respect and compassion went a long way.
I've also seen people need a lot of time off and it feel a bit, out of sorts. Ultimately, everyone deals with grief differently, and escaping to Greece for a week to get away from it all is a method that people could use - but as an employer I'd expect to have an idea of that plan and try to work with them on it. 'I need to get away from everyone asking me if I'm OK, I'm going to Greece, do you want me to take this as leave' or whatever.
Ultimately,if you've had to sit down and have a difficult conversation with them, it isn't pleasant, but some people simply don't know what 'reasonable' is. The guidelines are there to try and indicate that.
I don't think there is a one size fits all, and I also think, this is when both employees and employers show 'who they are'.
When my dad died, I'll openly admit I didn't grieve it properly, and I paid the price for it later on. I felt I had to get back into work ASAP - I returned between his death and the funeral - because I needed a sense of normality. I think in total I took maybe 4 days off. I won't deny I was absolutely useless in the office, but the support I had from my employer was phenomenal. I couldn't have asked for more.
As a manager, I've always tried to use the HR rules as guidelines that we enforce if people kick it too far. There was a chap I managed who was off for a long time as his wife died of terminal cancer. It was horrific. He was a larger than life character and you could tell he was hurting badly, even when he came back several months after her death. I told him he just needed to take every day as it came, and if he needed to go for a walk and a coffee with people in the team, he could do that.
He paid me back in spades in the coming months with absolute loyalty to me and the team, working exceptionally hard for us. Others in the team saw this happen and it really helped galvanise our spirit. Sounds like management nonsense, but a bit of respect and compassion went a long way.
I've also seen people need a lot of time off and it feel a bit, out of sorts. Ultimately, everyone deals with grief differently, and escaping to Greece for a week to get away from it all is a method that people could use - but as an employer I'd expect to have an idea of that plan and try to work with them on it. 'I need to get away from everyone asking me if I'm OK, I'm going to Greece, do you want me to take this as leave' or whatever.
Ultimately,if you've had to sit down and have a difficult conversation with them, it isn't pleasant, but some people simply don't know what 'reasonable' is. The guidelines are there to try and indicate that.
Dan_1981 said:
A friend of ours, husband died last November.
She still hasn't gone back to work. Doctor has signed her off.
Her company have been very supportive.
I can't imagine going back to work 5 days after the death of a child.
I recall a time as a production manager when one of my supervisors lost his 3 year old son to a mitochondrial condition similar to Charlie Guard, I think he only had a week out through his choice even though he would have been okay to take as much time as he needed. Everyone rallied around to make it comfortable for him on his return but when he came back you could feel the loss. The poor guy was literally grey with a dreadful haunted look on his face. She still hasn't gone back to work. Doctor has signed her off.
Her company have been very supportive.
I can't imagine going back to work 5 days after the death of a child.
Dan_1981 said:
A friend of ours, husband died last November.
She still hasn't gone back to work. Doctor has signed her off.
Her company have been very supportive.
I can't imagine going back to work 5 days after the death of a child.
IMO thats simply taking the piss.She still hasn't gone back to work. Doctor has signed her off.
Her company have been very supportive.
I can't imagine going back to work 5 days after the death of a child.
Whilst she may not be up to working full time she should be easing herself back in. PT hours to start with even if it's just two hours a day and then gently build it up.
When my granddad died at the start of the year I received a week at my managers discretion. Mainly because I had to fly to NZ so 2 days lost getting there and another 2 at the other end coming home. Each circumstance would be different though and I'd expect every company has a different policy.
Rick101 said:
They were in a bad way and couldn't get out of bed without breaking down etcetera. It turned out it was his dog that had died. I know people love their dogs but I'm amazed at how many stop work because of it.
That is excessive but for some people they will have an attachment with their dog that is likely closer to any that they have with family, if they have any family.I know one person who still thinks about the last dog that they had almost daily - it was almost like the child that they never had.
elanfan said:
OP - just how old is your employee if her mum was 95? Surely closer to retirement than not?
Yep - nearing 60. Another complication is that they were about to go into capability proceedings. I'd had complaints from her team that they were managing her rather than the other way round..... 
Countdown said:
elanfan said:
OP - just how old is your employee if her mum was 95? Surely closer to retirement than not?
Yep - nearing 60. Another complication is that they were about to go into capability proceedings. I'd had complaints from her team that they were managing her rather than the other way round..... elanfan said:
She is obviously a burden on the business and must be costing it money not just in terms of her inefficiencies but management and HR time. Maybe time for a generous as you can manage compromise agreement to see her out the door.
She's still within her first 2 years of employment so (fortunately) no compromise payment needed. However given that she's just had a bereavement I don't have the heart to put her on capability until she's been back for a few weeks. The problem is that she's behind with a couple of key projects and she is running out of time to deliver them and she will argue that was because of the bereavement. The fact is that, while the bereavement hasn't helped, her performance was already poor.Damned if I do, damned if I don't ......
Countdown said:
I guess I'm just venting really...
Our normal policy is 1 week. I got approval from HR to give her an extra week as I know she'd been worried about her mum for a while. I guess it was just the expectation that she'd get another 3/4 weeks, with subtle suggestions of how she couldn't afford to take unpaid leave and how she'd already booked her annual leave for Xmas and February
.
Being honest, I'd offer her as much time as she needed to grieve and sort herself out but point out that only 2 weeks would be paid. Anything above is authorised leave without pay or holiday.Our normal policy is 1 week. I got approval from HR to give her an extra week as I know she'd been worried about her mum for a while. I guess it was just the expectation that she'd get another 3/4 weeks, with subtle suggestions of how she couldn't afford to take unpaid leave and how she'd already booked her annual leave for Xmas and February
.You can reasonably expect to be cut up about a death in almost any circumstances but it's not reasonable to expect to be paid for weeks and weeks off.
If she's booked holiday for Xmas and February, she's taking the piss.
kuro said:
I recall a time as a production manager when one of my supervisors lost his 3 year old son to a mitochondrial condition similar to Charlie Guard, I think he only had a week out through his choice even though he would have been okay to take as much time as he needed. Everyone rallied around to make it comfortable for him on his return but when he came back you could feel the loss. The poor guy was literally grey with a dreadful haunted look on his face.
None of us could imagine losing a 3 year old. How utterly sad.I guess going back to work could, for some, be part of trying to remain vaguely sane.... something to get you out of the house. I can't imagine it to be honest. Lovely that all of you rallied around.
I've only run relatively small businesses (50 people or so) and my compassionate leave response was always 'you take what time you need'. This approach doesn't work in bigger companies - it has to be more defined.
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