Engineering. Escaping from procedures, paperwork, reviews...

Engineering. Escaping from procedures, paperwork, reviews...

Author
Discussion

Esotericstuff

111 posts

115 months

Saturday 30th December 2017
quotequote all
I am a little younger than you are, but faced a similar dilemma coming up on 5yrs algo.

Practical minded, good at problem solving. Not OCD/detail orientated enough for actual engineering work. And good social skills (in relative terms).

My solution was to become a product manager, means different things to different companies, but for me, it means being the voice of the customer, deriving máximum end user value from the resources available.

Only downside is that all I do now is talk and type, but I work close enough to the real engineers, to feel involved in a field I am still passionate about.

Another benefit is that unlike engineering, which is poorly paid and static in terms of opportunities, I am earning pretty decent cash with clear progression pathways into senior management roles.

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Saturday 30th December 2017
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Ive gone from Maintenance engineering as a craftsman, to sit down design engineering and now in operations and I must say I enjoy Ops.

It is Shift work and plenty of quiet shifts but when it gets exciting, it's really exciting.
I Do different roles so sometimes in the control room all shift, and others out on the plant. Huge complex beast has challenges that are interesting to deal with when they bite you at 2am, and pay is good too (don't tell the boss that)

Anything from a broken sewage plant to a tripped reactor, fun !

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 31st December 2017
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Hi,

I'd agree with the suggestion above about joining a startup. I've done it. You do EVERYTHING, you write all the processes that are essential and ignore those that are not unless a customer wants them ( :-( )

However have you considered "Technical Sales Engineer" type roles. These guys (gurls, transsexuals whatnots whatever) are the best sales people in my opinion and I've done it as part of my start up role. Customers love them because they know what they are talking about and generally sell through knowledge rather than through how shiny their suit is.

Basically it would use your skills of talking well to people and being technically minded and also absolve you from having to follow the endless processes and close attention to detail that is essential from engineers to avoid aircraft falling out the sky because someone didn't follow process or couldn't be bothered to pay attention to detail. Engineers must follow good processes and must pay attention to detail and must leave no stone unturned ... else people die. If that is not you then go to tech sales or something similar. I really value tech sales guys as they help you solve problems and give you solutions without having to worry about all the detail and processes themselves. Good luck.

OMG I have corrected 20+ typos here as it is new year's eve and I am half cut and on PH as I can't stand all that hogmany sh**e

Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Monday 1st January 2018
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Technical presales consultant sounds a good fit. Fill in the tech bits the salesman has no capability in. Must be technically credible and a good communicator. But of the fun of a sales pursuit often with some bonus, but no target per se. Work with lots of clients. Some paperwork to ensure the design and delivery risk is understood.

hooblah

539 posts

86 months

Tuesday 2nd January 2018
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This thread is basically me. So glad I stumbled upon this.

So I'm m+e, been on the tools for a few years but now I'm looking to get off that, into a more office based role with job satisfaction and career prospects. You guys have given me some great ideas... Keep them coming, I need all the help I can get!

KrissKross

2,182 posts

100 months

Saturday 6th January 2018
quotequote all
OP for what its worth, I am also an engineer that ended up a company Director.

I set up my own small business years ago and have never looked back, we now have a team of ~ 30 people.

Half of what I/we do is make products that we sell, our own product range that pays the main bills.

Another part is OEM and manufacture for other people, we also help improve, invent and build their ideas (very quickly).

The last bit is R&D, design, tinkering and playing with the workshop machines like big kids, failure can be fun, you just need to do a lot of it quickly and a few good ideas stick.

We now use high-end CAD design software, critical in my opinion and allows us to have fun and make our creations very quickly. Like artists with a technical paint brush.

I am also now in the process of adding a more modern 3D printer to the collection so we can accelerate the design/tests/fun further.

Small and technical businesses are the backbone of this country in my opinion.



Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Sunday 7th January 2018
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I currently am an engineer and have been for 30 years.

There is a job opportunity to move up to the next level as a manager and I have no idea if I should do it or not. It's only a small increase in pay (about £300 per month take home ) and makes no difference to the pension, for a large increase in none engineering things, such as staff appraisals, lead team meeting and staff task observations.

In years gone by, this job was still an engineers job and infact, I actually do that part, but the management stuff has taken over the actual job.

Think I might stay an engineer, it's fun.

Otispunkmeyer

12,557 posts

154 months

Sunday 7th January 2018
quotequote all
Kawasicki said:
blank said:
Get into the automotive industry.

Still some processes and procedures to follow but at least you get to do it by playing around with cars.

Don't go for a large OEM though. Go for a small OEM or a "support" company like vehicle or component testing.
Good advice, especially regarding vehicle testing. Avoid part release responsibility like the plague.
Just moved roles to one of the UKs big automotive test sites (there is only really 2, Horiba MIRA and Millbrook, Im with the former). It's an absolutely fantastic place. Impossible to be bored working there. If you do get a bit of boredom creeping in....take a walk. There are a thousand and one things going on all over the site that are interesting and people welcome you coming to nose in and ask what they're doing .

They're expanding too so have a look at the vacancies. Best decision I've made. Horiba are a big company but MIRA has managed to maintain that small almost academic feeling. You don't feel like a small cog in a big machine. They're part of Horiba....but they're not Horiba. If you get me .

Run by engineers as well. CEO, COO all the top roles really... All degree educated engineers, some with PhDs. All worked for the likes of Ricardo and Mercedes HPE in the past. It's a good place for engineers.

Gad-Westy

14,521 posts

212 months

Friday 12th January 2018
quotequote all
Gary C said:
I currently am an engineer and have been for 30 years.

There is a job opportunity to move up to the next level as a manager and I have no idea if I should do it or not. It's only a small increase in pay (about £300 per month take home ) and makes no difference to the pension, for a large increase in none engineering things, such as staff appraisals, lead team meeting and staff task observations.

In years gone by, this job was still an engineers job and infact, I actually do that part, but the management stuff has taken over the actual job.

Think I might stay an engineer, it's fun.
Here's my tenuously relevant tale. I had a couple of roles at large companies for a few years before getting involved with a start up (literally from day 1). First few years of that were brilliant, all design, experimentation, a bit of failure and some big wins. Constant concern about funding was an issue but still the high point of my career by some margin. As things expanded with that business, I drifted more and more into management until eventually I realised, I rarely did anything I enjoyed and spent my days embroiled in politics, policies, audits, KPI's, reviews, disciplinary issues etc. Boring, hated it. I moved on to another engineering management role, wrongly thinking it was the business I'd been in that was the issue but it's not and I'm now thinking more carefully about the next move.

I know it's cliched but there is an awful lot to be said for doing something you enjoy. It seems crazy to me that good engineers often get rewarded with managerial roles. Some do well at it (logical, simple approach helps) but many seem to hate it. So if you're having doubts, I'd personally stick to what you enjoy.

Not sure what I'm going to get into next. I think I'm probably a bit like the OP. Love messing around with things, developing things but less enthusiast for all the follow up or side work that goes with it. I think I'm quite likely to go down the route of contracting but I am quite tempted to explore the possibility of going it alone with some free lance design and development work.


StairDominator

148 posts

74 months

Friday 12th January 2018
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I was a (first class degree qualified) civil engineer for five years and I absolutely hated the job - just the thought of the job now makes me feel nauseous. Seen both sides of the coin with respect to the industry - office based design work right through to the coal face setting out on site with a dumpy level, total station and spray marker.

The design work was quite frankly *infuriating* - searching through volumes of Eurocodes and building regs, getting the design checked and finally approved, only to then have to redesign months (or years) later when there were issues on site. The latter option - setting out / surveying - was such a stressful yet poorly paid job it wasn't worth it, the requirement of being outdoors in every kind of weather was no fun, neither was the amount of driving required to get to the plethora of sites I was working on. Don't get me started on engineering remuneration - it really is an insult.

Handed in my notice last summer and I've been living off savings for the past half year not knowing what to do. Desperate to find a career solution at this point.

Sycamore

1,726 posts

117 months

Friday 12th January 2018
quotequote all
StairDominator said:
I was a (first class degree qualified) civil engineer for five years and I absolutely hated the job - just the thought of the job now makes me feel nauseous. Seen both sides of the coin with respect to the industry - office based design work right through to the coal face setting out on site with a dumpy level, total station and spray marker.

The design work was quite frankly *infuriating* - searching through volumes of Eurocodes and building regs, getting the design checked and finally approved, only to then have to redesign months (or years) later when there were issues on site. The latter option - setting out / surveying - was such a stressful yet poorly paid job it wasn't worth it, the requirement of being outdoors in every kind of weather was no fun, neither was the amount of driving required to get to the plethora of sites I was working on. Don't get me started on engineering remuneration - it really is an insult.

Handed in my notice last summer and I've been living off savings for the past half year not knowing what to do. Desperate to find a career solution at this point.
I'm a civil design engineer myself and can see exactly what you mean. I did 5 years mechanical design, and thought to give civil/structural a go. Jesus Christ it's boring. The whole industry is just poorly run and as the engineer it's always your fault when things go wrong or become delayed, despite having no control over it.

I think I'll soon leave and find a project engineer job somewhere more interesting, no where near civil/structural.

StairDominator

148 posts

74 months

Friday 12th January 2018
quotequote all
Sycamore said:
as the engineer it's always your fault when things go wrong or become delayed, despite having no control over it.
Oh yes, 100% that; the engineer always gets the blame. What a crazy industry. banghead

Woodrow Wilson

Original Poster:

338 posts

159 months

Friday 12th January 2018
quotequote all
It's good to know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

It does seem as if the modern world of work, with endless rules, regulations, design by committee and risk-averse-arse-covering-in-case-of-legal-action is set up for people who tend towards the OCD and autistic end of the personality spectrum who don't mind knowingly abortive work.

It is a long time ago now, but my Dad says that he enjoyed working in engineering in aerospace from the 60s until the early 90s. He says that engineering doesn't sound as much nowadays.

Thanks for the suggestions too. Keep them coming.

Gary C

12,315 posts

178 months

Saturday 13th January 2018
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Gary C said:
I currently am an engineer and have been for 30 years.

There is a job opportunity to move up to the next level as a manager and I have no idea if I should do it or not. It's only a small increase in pay (about £300 per month take home ) and makes no difference to the pension, for a large increase in none engineering things, such as staff appraisals, lead team meeting and staff task observations.

In years gone by, this job was still an engineers job and infact, I actually do that part, but the management stuff has taken over the actual job.

Think I might stay an engineer, it's fun.
Here's my tenuously relevant tale. I had a couple of roles at large companies for a few years before getting involved with a start up (literally from day 1). First few years of that were brilliant, all design, experimentation, a bit of failure and some big wins. Constant concern about funding was an issue but still the high point of my career by some margin. As things expanded with that business, I drifted more and more into management until eventually I realised, I rarely did anything I enjoyed and spent my days embroiled in politics, policies, audits, KPI's, reviews, disciplinary issues etc. Boring, hated it. I moved on to another engineering management role, wrongly thinking it was the business I'd been in that was the issue but it's not and I'm now thinking more carefully about the next move.

I know it's cliched but there is an awful lot to be said for doing something you enjoy. It seems crazy to me that good engineers often get rewarded with managerial roles. Some do well at it (logical, simple approach helps) but many seem to hate it. So if you're having doubts, I'd personally stick to what you enjoy.

Not sure what I'm going to get into next. I think I'm probably a bit like the OP. Love messing around with things, developing things but less enthusiast for all the follow up or side work that goes with it. I think I'm quite likely to go down the route of contracting but I am quite tempted to explore the possibility of going it alone with some free lance design and development work.
Well, deadline has passed and I haven't gone for it. Will just have to stay as a number 2, ah well still 6 fig salary and final salary pension. Can't complain.

GliderRider

2,068 posts

80 months

Monday 22nd January 2018
quotequote all
Woodrow Wilson, Improvements to production processes in a low to medium volume company may well suit you. Its largely about identifying quality issues (preventing scrap and removing the need for re-work) and overcoming production bottlenecks. Most of it is a case of watching, talking to and working with the people doing the task, and then coming up with the tooling and methods to speed it up and/or do it right every time. I find the guys building the products are usually very conscientious, so its either the product design, build information or the tools they have been given which let them down. Often they already know what needs to be done, and will welcome someone who will listen to them and implement their ideas, usually with a bit of tweaking along the way.

You're dealing with people, and then researching if something better is available than what they are using, or designing jigs fixtures etc. Some simple maths may be helpful, but generally common sense and previous engineering experience are the main requirements.

The job can go by a multitude of titles, usually Manufacturing Engineer, although some places call them Production Engineers and others Industrial Engineers. The great thing about engineering is that the more and broader experience you have, the more valuable you are, so unlike managers, you can still get jobs if you are the north side of fifty or sixty. If you are prepared to be a contractor, the money can be pretty good too.

FredClogs

14,041 posts

160 months

Monday 22nd January 2018
quotequote all
Woodrow Wilson said:
Mid-way (hopefully) through working life.

I have worked in engineering (in a handful of companies, small and large) since leaving university in late 90s.

I knew I wasn't really cut out for it, but followed the engineering path that I set out on, because that's what you do when you are a male who is good at maths and science and enjoy tinkering.

I have spent far too much of my working time clock-watching.

"good" engineers in my experience (of the modern day) are those who can sit and work through endless minor detail and writing, checking, reviewing(ad nauseum) the most boring of documentation for weeks at a time. Bureaucracy and regulations rule.

Such work suits and attracts people who sit towards the OCD and autistic end of the spectrum.

As somebody who prefers being active, likes to fly by the seat of his pants and feeling a sense of achievement from results rather than just the process (and struggles to maintain focus on things that are of no interest) the whole thing is extremely frustrating.

I do stand out in engineering as a well-rounded individual, someone who can understand things/people quickly and a good communicator (I am able to talk a good game, thankfully). I am approachable and I am good at explaining things and guiding people.

The downside is that I am not the most.organised or structured in my approach.

Myers-briggs suggests ISTP (or ESTP -I'm right in the middle for the introvert/Extrovert. A quiet extrovert or a talkative introvert?) , which is very close to describing me well. I have many of the traits of Adult ADD (if it exists).

I am desperate to find work that interests me and I find satisfying, without the need for sitting at a desk all day every day, other than when I go for meetings, looking through or writing/re-writing reports, work flows, detailed design, procedures etc. etc.

I did consider teaching a few years ago, but the pay would be a big drop. I was also told at the college interview that although I had very good technical knowledge and answered the questions (and debated and gave a good sample lesson) very well, I would probably be frustrated by the bureaucracy and ever-changing government guidance.

Ideas would be welcomed.


Edited by Woodrow Wilson on Monday 18th December 21:28
I could have written that, i think most people I've worked with over the last 25 years could have to.

I've contracted for the last 10years, it helps, removes you some the drudgery of office politics, mindless debates on process reforms and daft career mumbo jumbo, so you get to concentrate on the job and if you're not busy it's their fault or move on...

I write more software now than i ever have and do a couple of small projects on the side, i also try to get time to tinker with metal in the garage and i try to do as much stimulating stuff as i can outside the 9-5.

Don't give up a stable well paid job because you don't find it exciting, all engineers in corporate businesses know the grind of getting through the leaner work periods, working for a smaller company or a smaller advanced team to a big corporate brings its own set of issues, some of which are far more problematic than the melancholy of January on a quiet project.

Edited by FredClogs on Monday 22 January 21:49