Jump ship, or stay?
Discussion
Could do with a little guidance over what you lot would do in my situation.
Been at my current company for nearly 4 years (I'm mid-30's), it was the first rung in a new career. Over that 4 years I've learnt a lot and taken on a fair few more responsibilities, doing far more than my initial role that I was taken on for.
The next rung up on the ladder is a natural progression from my role - everyone at the company who has started in my role goes this route, so in a way promotion to this next role is (almost) guaranteed. However...
About 18 months ago we got bought out by a much larger company, and prior to this I was soon to be coming up to moving into this next role. When the new owners took over, that was put on hold, and is still on hold to this day. I've asked about progression, and have been told 'it will happen' but with no set time or date - the first 6 months of this year was mentioned, however I believe (information is VERY hard to get hold of) that it is waiting for a new team/department structure to be put in place, which is in turn waiting for a new system to be rolled out. Said system has been put back many, many times and I don't even know when it's due to be rolled out. Sometime this year is all I can reasonably say. I was offered a bit of sweetener of putting me on the on-call shift which is worth about £3k pa before tax in November, but nothing has come of this either... So you get the idea, getting ANY information about progression is just hitting a brick wall at the moment, and has been for months. And yes, my main priority for progression is money, but other things are important too - as I've mentioned, I'm the wrong side of 35, and I started at the company on 20k, in the time I've been there we've had one pay rise of 5% (which was fought for tooth and nail, if it hadn't been we wouldn't have gotten it - you guessed it, the new company didn't want to give it to us) which makes my current salary £21k.
Now, I've thought about moving to a new role, and tbh I probably wouldn't have too much trouble finding one, but (and it's a big but!) I'd realistically have to move sideways with maybe a 2-3k payrise, if I was very lucky, as my current pay is very very good for the industry and my particular role. Normally my job (what I started as) would pay around £16-18k. However I'd be starting again at another company, and would probably have to wait another 2 years or so before moving up at the new company, so thwarting my aim for progression.
I like my job and the people I work with at my current company, it's a very cushy set up we have. We all work hard and we're very good at what we do, we don't lose customers and the guys here generally stay for years. But... I'm not seeing any progress for my efforts and it's hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel.
Now, for the twist. Moving to a new role might see me on £22-23k maximum, realistically - so a 10% pay rise at most. When (if!) I move up to the next role at my current job it would mean (including the on call shift) I'd be on around £30k, so a 40% pay rise.
Money isn't everything but you can see my reasons for wanting to move up! That's with a 'normal' on call shift too, it can go much higher than that (£500 on an average shift, £1-1.5k on a good shift, one every 2 months).
Trying to get a reasonable answer as to when I might move up is virtually impossible, the 'first 6 months of this year' answer was extracted with a lot of effort and I can see that it was probably just given as an answer to stop me asking and to keep the carrot dangling in front my mouth, as was the on call shift offer. I'm fully expecting nothing to come of that gesture.
So, what would you do? Move on to a job paying 2k more where I could potentially be stuck in that role for another 2 years (you can't tell truthfully how much progression there's going to be until you're in the job, despite all the promises at interviews), or:
Stay in my current role hoping that the promotion comes in the next 6-9 months. But always knowing that I could be in exactly the same situation a year, 18 months from now, knocking on 38 and having been in the same (entry level role) for 5 years...
Thoughts?
Been at my current company for nearly 4 years (I'm mid-30's), it was the first rung in a new career. Over that 4 years I've learnt a lot and taken on a fair few more responsibilities, doing far more than my initial role that I was taken on for.
The next rung up on the ladder is a natural progression from my role - everyone at the company who has started in my role goes this route, so in a way promotion to this next role is (almost) guaranteed. However...
About 18 months ago we got bought out by a much larger company, and prior to this I was soon to be coming up to moving into this next role. When the new owners took over, that was put on hold, and is still on hold to this day. I've asked about progression, and have been told 'it will happen' but with no set time or date - the first 6 months of this year was mentioned, however I believe (information is VERY hard to get hold of) that it is waiting for a new team/department structure to be put in place, which is in turn waiting for a new system to be rolled out. Said system has been put back many, many times and I don't even know when it's due to be rolled out. Sometime this year is all I can reasonably say. I was offered a bit of sweetener of putting me on the on-call shift which is worth about £3k pa before tax in November, but nothing has come of this either... So you get the idea, getting ANY information about progression is just hitting a brick wall at the moment, and has been for months. And yes, my main priority for progression is money, but other things are important too - as I've mentioned, I'm the wrong side of 35, and I started at the company on 20k, in the time I've been there we've had one pay rise of 5% (which was fought for tooth and nail, if it hadn't been we wouldn't have gotten it - you guessed it, the new company didn't want to give it to us) which makes my current salary £21k.
Now, I've thought about moving to a new role, and tbh I probably wouldn't have too much trouble finding one, but (and it's a big but!) I'd realistically have to move sideways with maybe a 2-3k payrise, if I was very lucky, as my current pay is very very good for the industry and my particular role. Normally my job (what I started as) would pay around £16-18k. However I'd be starting again at another company, and would probably have to wait another 2 years or so before moving up at the new company, so thwarting my aim for progression.
I like my job and the people I work with at my current company, it's a very cushy set up we have. We all work hard and we're very good at what we do, we don't lose customers and the guys here generally stay for years. But... I'm not seeing any progress for my efforts and it's hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel.
Now, for the twist. Moving to a new role might see me on £22-23k maximum, realistically - so a 10% pay rise at most. When (if!) I move up to the next role at my current job it would mean (including the on call shift) I'd be on around £30k, so a 40% pay rise.
Money isn't everything but you can see my reasons for wanting to move up! That's with a 'normal' on call shift too, it can go much higher than that (£500 on an average shift, £1-1.5k on a good shift, one every 2 months).Trying to get a reasonable answer as to when I might move up is virtually impossible, the 'first 6 months of this year' answer was extracted with a lot of effort and I can see that it was probably just given as an answer to stop me asking and to keep the carrot dangling in front my mouth, as was the on call shift offer. I'm fully expecting nothing to come of that gesture.
So, what would you do? Move on to a job paying 2k more where I could potentially be stuck in that role for another 2 years (you can't tell truthfully how much progression there's going to be until you're in the job, despite all the promises at interviews), or:
Stay in my current role hoping that the promotion comes in the next 6-9 months. But always knowing that I could be in exactly the same situation a year, 18 months from now, knocking on 38 and having been in the same (entry level role) for 5 years...
Thoughts?I'm in not a too dissimilar situation to yourself, i'm 34.
In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
AbzST64 said:
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
What do you expect? They are not going to pay you more buttons to do less. Any more senior job is going to come with more accountability, it’s the trade off for more buttons. You are under a misapprehension about what it would be like at your current place and even if not, which would be rare, there is no promise of it so again it’s possible jam tomorrow. AbzST64 said:
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
It is if you ever want more money, more responsibility, personal growth etc etc. The easy thing is to stay where you are but unfortunately Mr Scared of Change almost 100% guaranteed has a less well paid career long term than Mr Bring it On. Nobody else is going to manage your career for you and there is no such thing as a free promotion.
Edited by craigjm on Tuesday 23 January 10:03
AbzST64 said:
I'm in not a too dissimilar situation to yourself, i'm 34.
In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
In your situation I'd be trying to use the fact that you've got a very decent offer on the table to get your current company to commit to something, on the basis that you'd like to stay - if they can't then I'd be saying bye!!In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
craigjm said:
Possible jam tomorrow or look for another job? No brainer to me
What is 'Jam'? You've used this in 2 replies but I honestly have no idea what it stands for? 'jam tomorrow' - just about managing? Jump around madly?
Jam tomorrow is an expression for a never-fulfilled promise. Lots of companies will promise you something in the future for your loyalty today and very often if fails to materialise.
As I said there is only one person who will ever manage your career and that’s yourself. If you are ever thinking about leaving a company then there is always an underlying reason and if you get offered what looks like a job but don’t take it because of the offer of “jam tomorrow” you are more that likely to look back in regret that you didn’t take it when that promised future doesn’t happen.
Far better to regret something you have done that sit back and later think “what if?”
Every thread like this is based on fear of change. You can’t stop change it’s happening all around you and you either get on board and ride with it or get left behind.
As I said there is only one person who will ever manage your career and that’s yourself. If you are ever thinking about leaving a company then there is always an underlying reason and if you get offered what looks like a job but don’t take it because of the offer of “jam tomorrow” you are more that likely to look back in regret that you didn’t take it when that promised future doesn’t happen.
Far better to regret something you have done that sit back and later think “what if?”
Every thread like this is based on fear of change. You can’t stop change it’s happening all around you and you either get on board and ride with it or get left behind.
jump ship.
If you can get a new job and you think the progression will be better, go for it. If you don't think the new job will help your progression, look for something else.
I've pretty much hit a ceiling where I'm at now, so looking for what will most likely be a sideways move, but with the hope that progression at the new company is more of a possibility.
If I hadn't of made the moves which I made in the past, I wouldn't be where I'm at now.
If you can get a new job and you think the progression will be better, go for it. If you don't think the new job will help your progression, look for something else.
I've pretty much hit a ceiling where I'm at now, so looking for what will most likely be a sideways move, but with the hope that progression at the new company is more of a possibility.
If I hadn't of made the moves which I made in the past, I wouldn't be where I'm at now.
AbzST64 said:
I'm in not a too dissimilar situation to yourself, i'm 34.
In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
From personal experience in a similar situation I would take the offer. So what if it's more stressful? In my current role day to day work is fine etc but i want to progress and they know this and has been noted the past year or so BUT as yet nothing. I'm more than capable for a senior role but they are now saying they need to create a new role for me to move into which isn't straight forward...! But the company and the people are great and i have no issues at all apart from the progression.
Now i have been offered a senior role somewhere else...15k payrise, car allowance (approx £5k year) and minimum 15% bonus year...! But with the new company it'll be leading a team of 4, very possible longer working hours (have a young family), more stress, not as flexible working hours i currently have etc etc whereas i know it wouldn't be like that at my current place if i got the senior role.
Lots to think about, the grass isn't always greener!
I completed a 2 year apprenticeship (~£22k), promised a promotion at the end of it (~£27k). Completed said apprenticeship and waited around for 6 months waiting for it to happen (nagging managers, scouring internal jobs), to no avail. Put my CV online and was offered a job on £30k+8% bonus, I jumped at it. Albeit I don't have a family and a mortgage etc, but the principle is the same in that the hours weren't flexible, it was an hour longer commute etc. But I did it because it would then allow me to apply for jobs on similar money, in a similar role but with a better overall package (flexi-time, pension, annual leave etc). And that plan worked, as I have seen it work with other colleagues as I've now made a similar jump as previous, except with a better package as mentioned.
To summarise, use this offer to attempt to sway your company in to offering you a better role and/or better package - If they don't oblige then it shows that they don't value you as much as you might think. Take the other company's offer and give it your best shot. Give it a year. Then move on to better things with the experience behind your belt.
I'm with cragjm on this.
Jam tomorrow is in my personal opinion, jam that never arrives.
I used to work with a friend, same experience and same qualifications.
I moved, he never would.
I've just retired at 56, he's still earning 35k pa.
I'm not saying this was all because I moved, but those that don't will never maximise their opportunities.
Jam tomorrow is in my personal opinion, jam that never arrives.
I used to work with a friend, same experience and same qualifications.
I moved, he never would.
I've just retired at 56, he's still earning 35k pa.
I'm not saying this was all because I moved, but those that don't will never maximise their opportunities.
Tall_Paul said:
The next rung up on the ladder is a natural progression from my role - everyone at the company who has started in my role goes this route, so in a way promotion to this next role is (almost) guaranteed. However...
Perhaps the new company doesn't agree with guaranteed promotions with 50% payrises, but no-one has the stones to tell you and they are just keeping you hanging on instead?Saw it loads in my old job. People sticking in a dead end job without looking at other avenues because something good was just around the corner that never materialised.
I'd move somewhere else probably.
Many would disagree with me but in the past companies used to like it when you enquired about "progression" whereas nowadays I think alot of companies want people to fill roles and stay where they are, ideally on the same salary for as long as possible.
Many would disagree with me but in the past companies used to like it when you enquired about "progression" whereas nowadays I think alot of companies want people to fill roles and stay where they are, ideally on the same salary for as long as possible.
My view and experience is if you stay in a job too long you become stagnant and progression doesn't happen.
The only way to get a decent pay rise is to jump ship IMO, gone are the days where companies want to invest and promote someone when they can buy the talent in.
No company wants someone with a 30 year pension waiting for them.
It's all about risk and reward IMO.
The only way to get a decent pay rise is to jump ship IMO, gone are the days where companies want to invest and promote someone when they can buy the talent in.
No company wants someone with a 30 year pension waiting for them.
It's all about risk and reward IMO.
k out of there. I think you know it already. You are too young to have been in the same job for 4 years if you have any ambition. Get out as a matter of urgency before it gets too late.Orchid1 said:
I'd move somewhere else probably.
Many would disagree with me but in the past companies used to like it when you enquired about "progression" whereas nowadays I think alot of companies want people to fill roles and stay where they are, ideally on the same salary for as long as possible.
This.Many would disagree with me but in the past companies used to like it when you enquired about "progression" whereas nowadays I think alot of companies want people to fill roles and stay where they are, ideally on the same salary for as long as possible.
The fact you are looking at options says you are half way out of the door already.
Companies or immediate boss will make all sorts of vague verbal commitments to maintain the status-qou i.e. easy life for them.
I think you already know what you want, the question is when will it reach the point where your hand effectively gets forced i.e. you really need the extra money or you have just had enough, better to jump without the pressure.
Also 4 years is a reasonable time in a job so a move at this point would show interest in career progression to other employers.
Companies or immediate boss will make all sorts of vague verbal commitments to maintain the status-qou i.e. easy life for them.
I think you already know what you want, the question is when will it reach the point where your hand effectively gets forced i.e. you really need the extra money or you have just had enough, better to jump without the pressure.
Also 4 years is a reasonable time in a job so a move at this point would show interest in career progression to other employers.
Thanks everyone. I’m firmly of the opinion that if you are asking the question “should I?” Then you already have something giving you doubts about your current situation.
Being too scared to make the jump is what holds people back. If you plan your career then usually at around the two year mark you should think about what your next move should be with it usually taking a year say to make the final change so jobs turn over every three years.
The job market is different these days. Employers don’t invest in developing people like they used to so promotion from within is never guaranteed. As a boss I also think that promoting from within is not usually a good thing anyway. Someone who is a team member who then becomes that teams manager faces a tougher challenge than someone new coming in. Someone new coming in brings new views, experiences and skills too.
I always liken it to a family. The only way you develop is by bringing in new blood and DNA as you go along. Interbreeding (internal promotion) causes the same issues in companies as it does in human bloodlines.
Being too scared to make the jump is what holds people back. If you plan your career then usually at around the two year mark you should think about what your next move should be with it usually taking a year say to make the final change so jobs turn over every three years.
The job market is different these days. Employers don’t invest in developing people like they used to so promotion from within is never guaranteed. As a boss I also think that promoting from within is not usually a good thing anyway. Someone who is a team member who then becomes that teams manager faces a tougher challenge than someone new coming in. Someone new coming in brings new views, experiences and skills too.
I always liken it to a family. The only way you develop is by bringing in new blood and DNA as you go along. Interbreeding (internal promotion) causes the same issues in companies as it does in human bloodlines.
Thanks for the replies - it would be a lot simpler if I could say that I would be able to find something at a couple of grand a year more. However looking at roles that are out there, a very good percentage are paying the same (or less) that what I'm currently on. I'm currently "1st line support" - I say that however the lines are not defined here, and my next role would effectively be 2nd line support.
Just to be clear, truthfully the ONLY reason I'm even thinking about moving is money. Apart from some minor niggles (and the lack of progression in the last year) I have no complaints about my job - I like the people I work with, the atmosphere is better than any place I've worked at before, I have not had a single day where I've felt the dread of having to go to work. Yes it's hard work and we're busy but it's a bloody great place to work. I do not WANT to leave... I just want more money.
So - looking at it purely from a monetary perspective, would you move to a new role with an unknown new company, with zero extra money, doing the 2nd line support role (involving a lot more complexity and responsibility than what I'm doing now) with the knowledge that realistically I'd have to move jobs again in 2-3 years time to get an extra £5k a year? So with finding a role (taking 6 months) it would mean probably 3.5 years from now and I'd be on £26-28k.
Or - give it another year in my current role, where yes - I could be in the same situation I am now (i.e. on the same money) but I would be no worse off in terms of job satisfaction? But, there would be a high probability that I could be another £5-7k better off?
That may smack as getting too comfy, and a lot of you have said "4 years in the same job?!!!?? That's faaaar too long" - however at my place 4 years is nothing, people join and they stay, and for good reason. If I moved on to a role doing more, with more stress, worse colleagues, for a worse company, for the same money - I'm be pretty pissed off.
Obviously I can look for something decent with a decent pay rise in the meantime, but honestly I don't see me being able to find a role that will pay another 2-3k and as it will be the next level up from what I'm currently doing I'll be up against more experienced candidates.
So, further thoughts?
Just to be clear, truthfully the ONLY reason I'm even thinking about moving is money. Apart from some minor niggles (and the lack of progression in the last year) I have no complaints about my job - I like the people I work with, the atmosphere is better than any place I've worked at before, I have not had a single day where I've felt the dread of having to go to work. Yes it's hard work and we're busy but it's a bloody great place to work. I do not WANT to leave... I just want more money.
So - looking at it purely from a monetary perspective, would you move to a new role with an unknown new company, with zero extra money, doing the 2nd line support role (involving a lot more complexity and responsibility than what I'm doing now) with the knowledge that realistically I'd have to move jobs again in 2-3 years time to get an extra £5k a year? So with finding a role (taking 6 months) it would mean probably 3.5 years from now and I'd be on £26-28k.
Or - give it another year in my current role, where yes - I could be in the same situation I am now (i.e. on the same money) but I would be no worse off in terms of job satisfaction? But, there would be a high probability that I could be another £5-7k better off?
That may smack as getting too comfy, and a lot of you have said "4 years in the same job?!!!?? That's faaaar too long" - however at my place 4 years is nothing, people join and they stay, and for good reason. If I moved on to a role doing more, with more stress, worse colleagues, for a worse company, for the same money - I'm be pretty pissed off.
Obviously I can look for something decent with a decent pay rise in the meantime, but honestly I don't see me being able to find a role that will pay another 2-3k and as it will be the next level up from what I'm currently doing I'll be up against more experienced candidates.
So, further thoughts?
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