Working shifts? Big change on the horizon
Discussion
Lord.Vader said:
I’d be questioning the 15%, what’s the point in that!
Our lads get 20% for 6-2 / 2-10, 30% for nights and 40 or 42% for 4/4, plus their holidays.
We’ve been told there’s no increase in shift allowance, which is why the holidays are important to meOur lads get 20% for 6-2 / 2-10, 30% for nights and 40 or 42% for 4/4, plus their holidays.
Shift allowance is relative to salary, and the salary ain’t bad for what the work is and the environment that it’s in.
Management need to clarify whether they are 11 hour shifts with an hours unpaid break, or if they're 12 hour shifts with a paid break.
If it's the former then your statutory holiday entitlement is 215.6 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 11 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 38.5 hours per week), if it's the later then your statutory holiday entitlement is 235.2 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 12 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 42 hours per week).
Also your current holiday entitlement in hours is short. According to the government website it should be 210 hours based on 37.5 hours per week not 187.5. Do you currently get bank holidays off? Or double pay for working bank holidays? Days off in lieu?
Anyway, some useful calculations:
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 1943.63 - 210 = 1733.63 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts:
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 96.71 so 100 - 96.71 = 3.29%
4 on, 4 off - 12 hour shifts:
Hours per shift = 12 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 12 = 2190.72 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2190.72 - 235.2 = 1955.52 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1955.52 x 100 = 88.65 so 100 - 88.65 = 11.35%
Be mindful that working 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off means you ALWAYS lose at least half a day of your rest days to sleep and have to adjust your body clock every time. Whereas 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off means that you can utilise more of your rest days as your sleep pattern is not messed up when you come off days.
If it's the former then your statutory holiday entitlement is 215.6 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 11 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 38.5 hours per week), if it's the later then your statutory holiday entitlement is 235.2 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 12 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 42 hours per week).
Also your current holiday entitlement in hours is short. According to the government website it should be 210 hours based on 37.5 hours per week not 187.5. Do you currently get bank holidays off? Or double pay for working bank holidays? Days off in lieu?
Anyway, some useful calculations:
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 1943.63 - 210 = 1733.63 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts:
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 96.71 so 100 - 96.71 = 3.29%
4 on, 4 off - 12 hour shifts:
Hours per shift = 12 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 12 = 2190.72 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2190.72 - 235.2 = 1955.52 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1955.52 x 100 = 88.65 so 100 - 88.65 = 11.35%
Be mindful that working 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off means you ALWAYS lose at least half a day of your rest days to sleep and have to adjust your body clock every time. Whereas 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off means that you can utilise more of your rest days as your sleep pattern is not messed up when you come off days.
I found 12 hour shifts soul destroying, coped ok with nights as I got to relax and watch films etc if nothing broke down but days were different.
The time off I had made up for the negatives slightly but I’d never willingly go back to them, I found myself wanting to go straight to bed after a 12 hour day shift as I was so tired.
The time off I had made up for the negatives slightly but I’d never willingly go back to them, I found myself wanting to go straight to bed after a 12 hour day shift as I was so tired.
Squishey said:
Management need to clarify whether they are 11 hour shifts with an hours unpaid break, or if they're 12 hour shifts with a paid break.
If it's the former then your statutory holiday entitlement is 215.6 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 11 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 38.5 hours per week), if it's the later then your statutory holiday entitlement is 235.2 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 12 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 42 hours per week).
Also your current holiday entitlement in hours is short. According to the government website it should be 210 hours based on 37.5 hours per week not 187.5. Do you currently get bank holidays off? Or double pay for working bank holidays? Days off in lieu?
Anyway, some useful calculations:
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 1943.63 - 210 = 1733.63 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts:
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 96.71 so 100 - 96.71 = 3.29%
4 on, 4 off - 12 hour shifts:
Hours per shift = 12 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 12 = 2190.72 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2190.72 - 235.2 = 1955.52 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1955.52 x 100 = 88.65 so 100 - 88.65 = 11.35%
Be mindful that working 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off means you ALWAYS lose at least half a day of your rest days to sleep and have to adjust your body clock every time. Whereas 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off means that you can utilise more of your rest days as your sleep pattern is not messed up when you come off days.
That’s a lot of info thanks. If it's the former then your statutory holiday entitlement is 215.6 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 11 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 38.5 hours per week), if it's the later then your statutory holiday entitlement is 235.2 hours (182.56 shifts per year x 12 hours per shift ÷ 52.14 weeks per year = 42 hours per week).
Also your current holiday entitlement in hours is short. According to the government website it should be 210 hours based on 37.5 hours per week not 187.5. Do you currently get bank holidays off? Or double pay for working bank holidays? Days off in lieu?
Anyway, some useful calculations:
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 1943.63 - 210 = 1733.63 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts:
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 96.71 so 100 - 96.71 = 3.29%
4 on, 4 off - 12 hour shifts:
Hours per shift = 12 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 12 = 2190.72 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2190.72 - 235.2 = 1955.52 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1733.63 ÷ 1955.52 x 100 = 88.65 so 100 - 88.65 = 11.35%
Be mindful that working 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off means you ALWAYS lose at least half a day of your rest days to sleep and have to adjust your body clock every time. Whereas 4 days, 4 off, 4 nights, 4 off means that you can utilise more of your rest days as your sleep pattern is not messed up when you come off days.
It will be 11hr days with 1hr unpaid.
Am I right in thinking my current holidays are 3x7.5hrs short a year or are they going to say your bank hols make up for it ? That would mean they owe me/us 24days holiday over the last 8years
I currently don’t work bank holidays, if I did I’d get double time, time in lieu is time for time since someone exploited it and worked 12sundays for 24days off lol.
PapaJohns said:
That’s a lot of info thanks.
It will be 11hr days with 1hr unpaid.
Am I right in thinking my current holidays are 3x7.5hrs short a year or are they going to say your bank hols make up for it ? That would mean they owe me/us 24days holiday over the last 8years
I currently don’t work bank holidays, if I did I’d get double time, time in lieu is time for time since someone exploited it and worked 12sundays for 24days off lol.
If you're currently getting 25 days holiday plus bank holidays then your employer is giving you more than the statutory minimum (210 hours) so owe you nothing:It will be 11hr days with 1hr unpaid.
Am I right in thinking my current holidays are 3x7.5hrs short a year or are they going to say your bank hols make up for it ? That would mean they owe me/us 24days holiday over the last 8years
I currently don’t work bank holidays, if I did I’d get double time, time in lieu is time for time since someone exploited it and worked 12sundays for 24days off lol.
(25 x 7.5) + (8 x 7.5) = 247.5 hours
Looking at the proposed holiday entitlement, your company is saying that 1 shift holiday booked is 12 hours from your entitlement, however this is not correct as they’re not paying your 1 hour break so 1 shift holiday booked should be 11 hours.
The government website says your statutory holiday entitlement for a 38.5 hour week is 215.6 hours holiday including bank holidays. 215.6 ÷ 11 = 19.6 shifts off per year (19 x 11 shifts + 6 hours 36 minutes). How your employer wishes to deal with the 0.6 of a shift is something you’ll need to ask.
Does the new shift pattern mean that you’ll be working 24/7/365? i.e. Christmas day, boxing day, etc.?
Rostered rest days should be viewed in the same way as a Mon-Fri worker’s weekend, so if your rostered rest day falls on a bank holiday these hours should not come from your holiday entitlement. If the bank holiday was not there you’d be off anyway.
Updated working hour calculations
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - holiday entitlement = 1943.63 – 247.5 = 1696.13 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts (+1 hour unpaid break):
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1696.13 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 94.62 so 100 – 94.62 = 5.38%
Edited by Squishey - Updated working hour calculations
Edited by Squishey on Tuesday 27th February 00:06
I have to agree with the masses, working nightshift is s
t. Proper st. It messes you up and takes a minimum of 18 hours to reset your internal clock into 'normal' life. And then it starts again. I did it for about 18 months, 10-8 Monday night through to Friday night and hated it intensely. Mind you I was 19 and my mates were all going out on the piss every Friday night and hungover/skint on Saturday.
At the moment I work 4 days a week, Sunday to Thursday and if you get offered the chance, absolutely take it! It's 9pm finishes, (Sun 10-8, Mon 9-9, Tues 1-9 & Wed 11:30-9) and I've looked at other jobs, even Monday to Friday and decided against it. I'd miss my three days too much. There's another team that do Thursday-Saturday 12.5 hour shifts, 8:30-9 and if I were offered it I'd jump at the chance!
t. Proper st. It messes you up and takes a minimum of 18 hours to reset your internal clock into 'normal' life. And then it starts again. I did it for about 18 months, 10-8 Monday night through to Friday night and hated it intensely. Mind you I was 19 and my mates were all going out on the piss every Friday night and hungover/skint on Saturday.At the moment I work 4 days a week, Sunday to Thursday and if you get offered the chance, absolutely take it! It's 9pm finishes, (Sun 10-8, Mon 9-9, Tues 1-9 & Wed 11:30-9) and I've looked at other jobs, even Monday to Friday and decided against it. I'd miss my three days too much. There's another team that do Thursday-Saturday 12.5 hour shifts, 8:30-9 and if I were offered it I'd jump at the chance!
Squishey said:
If you're currently getting 25 days holiday plus bank holidays then your employer is giving you more than the statutory minimum (210 hours) so owe you nothing:
(25 x 7.5) + (8 x 7.5) = 247.5 hours
Looking at the proposed holiday entitlement, your company is saying that 1 shift holiday booked is 12 hours from your entitlement, however this is not correct as they’re not paying your 1 hour break so 1 shift holiday booked should be 11 hours.
The government website says your statutory holiday entitlement for a 38.5 hour week is 215.6 hours holiday including bank holidays. 215.6 ÷ 11 = 19.6 shifts off per year (19 x 11 shifts + 6 hours 36 minutes). How your employer wishes to deal with the 0.6 of a shift is something you’ll need to ask.
Does the new shift pattern mean that you’ll be working 24/7/365? i.e. Christmas day, boxing day, etc.?
Rostered rest days should be viewed in the same way as a Mon-Fri worker’s weekend, so if your rostered rest day falls on a bank holiday these hours should not come from your holiday entitlement. If the bank holiday was not there you’d be off anyway.
Updated working hour calculations
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - holiday entitlement = 1943.63 – 247.5 = 1696.13 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts (+1 hour unpaid break):
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1696.13 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 94.62 so 100 – 94.62 = 5.38%
Yes the new shift pattern means we’ll be working 24/7/365(25 x 7.5) + (8 x 7.5) = 247.5 hours
Looking at the proposed holiday entitlement, your company is saying that 1 shift holiday booked is 12 hours from your entitlement, however this is not correct as they’re not paying your 1 hour break so 1 shift holiday booked should be 11 hours.
The government website says your statutory holiday entitlement for a 38.5 hour week is 215.6 hours holiday including bank holidays. 215.6 ÷ 11 = 19.6 shifts off per year (19 x 11 shifts + 6 hours 36 minutes). How your employer wishes to deal with the 0.6 of a shift is something you’ll need to ask.
Does the new shift pattern mean that you’ll be working 24/7/365? i.e. Christmas day, boxing day, etc.?
Rostered rest days should be viewed in the same way as a Mon-Fri worker’s weekend, so if your rostered rest day falls on a bank holiday these hours should not come from your holiday entitlement. If the bank holiday was not there you’d be off anyway.
Updated working hour calculations
Your current shift rota:
Shifts per year = 5/7 of 365 days = 0.71 x 365 = 259.15 shifts
Hours per shift = 7.5 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 1943.63 hours
Hours worked per year = hours per year - holiday entitlement = 1943.63 – 247.5 = 1696.13 hours
4 on, 4 off - 11 hour shifts (+1 hour unpaid break):
Shift cycle = 16 weeks or 112 days
Shift cycles per year = days per year ÷ days per shift cycle = 365 ÷ 112 = 3.26 shift cycles per year
Shifts per cycle = 56 shifts
Shifts per year = shifts per cycle x shift cycles per year = 56 x 3.26 = 182.56 shifts
Hours per shift = 11 hours
Hours per year = shifts per year x hours per shift = 182.56 x 11 = 2008.16
Hours worked per year = hours per year - statutory holiday entitlement = 2008.16 - 215.6 = 1792.56 hours
Percentage increase in working hours = 1696.13 ÷ 1792.56 x 100 = 94.62 so 100 – 94.62 = 5.38%
Edited by Squishey - Updated working hour calculations
Edited by Squishey on Tuesday 27th February 00:06
Who ever worked it all out is wrong, and it’s now in the hands of our HR department,which it should have been from the start .
We’ve been verbally told we’ll be getting the same holiday entitlement as we get now (holds breath) waiting to see what our HR department has to say.
I’m actually looking forward to this shift pattern .......I think 🤔
Squishey said:
Sounds like a good deal!
Good luck
Sounds good to me too, the older fellas aren’t though, there saying they want more money and shift allowance . Yeah it would be nice but we were told from the off there was no pay rise/shiftrise available Good luck
24 shifts hol and roughly 52hrs extra pay a year, like I say I’m happy just to avoid 6-4 shift pattern
People always moan about change, even if they're getting a better deal. We've got a couple of guys here that have the "nope, nope, nope" attitude to any sort of change, then when it comes any way they then start with the "well that's st, why didn't they just leave it alone"! What they actually mean is "I'm comfortable and don't want change because that means I might have to learn something new even though I can see it's a much better way of doing things".
4 on 4 off day shifts is a cushy number, especially with the amount of holiday you're getting as well. Yes, you're working more hours per week (with a pay rise) but you're getting a lot more whole days off per year - what's not to like?!
t, why didn't they just leave it alone"! What they actually mean is "I'm comfortable and don't want change because that means I might have to learn something new even though I can see it's a much better way of doing things".4 on 4 off day shifts is a cushy number, especially with the amount of holiday you're getting as well. Yes, you're working more hours per week (with a pay rise) but you're getting a lot more whole days off per year - what's not to like?!
Yipper said:
Shift work shortens your lifespan by 5 to 10 years. It is highly destructive to physical and mental health and sleep repair.
Do yourself a favour and find a good 9-to-5 Mon to Fri job. Retrain if needed.
See, in my experience, 9-5 sucks ass!Do yourself a favour and find a good 9-to-5 Mon to Fri job. Retrain if needed.
Your journey to and from work is during peak rush hour, so a 10min journey is now 30mins. Nip to the shops or into the town centre to get something after work? Add another 30mins. You get home 5:30-6ish, if you have a young family you get to have dinner/bath time with them, that's it. By the time food/bath/bed is done its around 8pm, at which point you collapse on the sofa and await the next day. In the winter you go to and from work in the dark, if you work in an office that's 5 days of darkness. EVERYTHING gets left until the weekend. DIY, cleaning the house, washing the car, shopping, mowing the lawn, seeing friends/family all has to somehow get squished into those 2 days at the end of the week, when everywhere is busy as everyone else is trying to do the same thing.
Nope, nope, nope.
This week I've been working 6pm-3am, so I basically had Monday off. Washed the car, went out for lunch with my wife & daughter, then had 2-3hrs time with my son before I went to work. Getting to sleep for 4am, waking up around 11am, I still have a full afternoon before I have to head back to work again.
Been doing shifts of some description for 5yrs+, 9-5 can suck my balls.
Squishey said:
People always moan about change, even if they're getting a better deal. We've got a couple of guys here that have the "nope, nope, nope" attitude to any sort of change, then when it comes any way they then start with the "well that's st, why didn't they just leave it alone"! What they actually mean is "I'm comfortable and don't want change because that means I might have to learn something new even though I can see it's a much better way of doing things".
4 on 4 off day shifts is a cushy number, especially with the amount of holiday you're getting as well. Yes, you're working more hours per week (with a pay rise) but you're getting a lot more whole days off per year - what's not to like?!
2 days 2nights 4off , but yeah I agree. Got my start date today which is after the bank holidays which they’ve said they won’t take off our holiday entitlement if they can t, why didn't they just leave it alone"! What they actually mean is "I'm comfortable and don't want change because that means I might have to learn something new even though I can see it's a much better way of doing things".4 on 4 off day shifts is a cushy number, especially with the amount of holiday you're getting as well. Yes, you're working more hours per week (with a pay rise) but you're getting a lot more whole days off per year - what's not to like?!
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