BIM Training and Career Advice
Discussion
During my last period of employment a couple of contracts the company were bidding on demanded that we had a BIM manager within the company, role which would have fallen to me had the company wished to pursue it any further.
Unfortunately they viewed it as too much of a hassle so never took things any further, but it was something which genuinely piqued my interest and I do see BIM management as a direction I would like to move towards.
I have attended a couple of introduction to BIM level 2 seminars and spent some time on the B1m website, so I have a little background knowledge of the process.
The principal reason for this post is to hopefully get some recommendations for BIM training courses, I see that bsi run a fundamentals course as well as other more advanced courses.
Has anyone attended and completed these courses?
Are they worthwhile?
Is there any other courses superior to those ran by the bsi?
A brief background on me and my experience.
I have worked in the engineering / construction industry for 25 years.
20 years or so of those years have been spent in drawing offices using 2D AutoCAD, Inventor, Solidworks and more recently Tekla BIMsight which was used during my previous role for the review of steel frame buildings. The company I worked for are a primary and secondary steel work fabricator.
I have taken charge of 2 drawing offices which had little to no procedures in place and I did implement procedures and practices within both of them so I am comfortable with that side of things.
The remaining 5 years have been more managerial, but still within a drawing office / technical environment.
After looking at various BIM jobs advertised, I see that Revit appears to be one of the more commonly used programs used and demanded by employers. Revit is something which I have never used, but given my years using other Autodesk products I would assume that it would be a fairly simple transition in to Revit for me? I am willing to take further training on that though.
Any advice and recommendations will be great appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Unfortunately they viewed it as too much of a hassle so never took things any further, but it was something which genuinely piqued my interest and I do see BIM management as a direction I would like to move towards.
I have attended a couple of introduction to BIM level 2 seminars and spent some time on the B1m website, so I have a little background knowledge of the process.
The principal reason for this post is to hopefully get some recommendations for BIM training courses, I see that bsi run a fundamentals course as well as other more advanced courses.
Has anyone attended and completed these courses?
Are they worthwhile?
Is there any other courses superior to those ran by the bsi?
A brief background on me and my experience.
I have worked in the engineering / construction industry for 25 years.
20 years or so of those years have been spent in drawing offices using 2D AutoCAD, Inventor, Solidworks and more recently Tekla BIMsight which was used during my previous role for the review of steel frame buildings. The company I worked for are a primary and secondary steel work fabricator.
I have taken charge of 2 drawing offices which had little to no procedures in place and I did implement procedures and practices within both of them so I am comfortable with that side of things.
The remaining 5 years have been more managerial, but still within a drawing office / technical environment.
After looking at various BIM jobs advertised, I see that Revit appears to be one of the more commonly used programs used and demanded by employers. Revit is something which I have never used, but given my years using other Autodesk products I would assume that it would be a fairly simple transition in to Revit for me? I am willing to take further training on that though.
Any advice and recommendations will be great appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
I've been working in Highways for about 5 years, mainly on the Design side. We use BIM currently for the AutoCAD work on our projects. For the most part I've had very little actual exposure to it, but we do, as a business, aim to adopt it more going forward and working towards higher levels of compliance.
Couple months ago I was, for lack of a better phrasing, randomly nominated to complete a BIM online course. It was all done online at my desk, through BRE Academy: https://www.bre.co.uk/academy/page.jsp?id=3516
I will say it was quite interesting and useful, I did the online training and passed the included exams.
To be honest I don't think I'll have much hands-on experience with it, it seems more useful when used for proper project management - the stuff I work on is relatively small scale and to be fair it's well beyond my pay scale or skill to implement something like this..
But anyway, the course was interesting enough, I'd recommend the BRE Academy, if they offer the sort of thing you're looking for.
Couple months ago I was, for lack of a better phrasing, randomly nominated to complete a BIM online course. It was all done online at my desk, through BRE Academy: https://www.bre.co.uk/academy/page.jsp?id=3516
I will say it was quite interesting and useful, I did the online training and passed the included exams.
To be honest I don't think I'll have much hands-on experience with it, it seems more useful when used for proper project management - the stuff I work on is relatively small scale and to be fair it's well beyond my pay scale or skill to implement something like this..
But anyway, the course was interesting enough, I'd recommend the BRE Academy, if they offer the sort of thing you're looking for.
smithyithy said:
I've been working in Highways for about 5 years, mainly on the Design side. We use BIM currently for the AutoCAD work on our projects. For the most part I've had very little actual exposure to it, but we do, as a business, aim to adopt it more going forward and working towards higher levels of compliance.
Couple months ago I was, for lack of a better phrasing, randomly nominated to complete a BIM online course. It was all done online at my desk, through BRE Academy: https://www.bre.co.uk/academy/page.jsp?id=3516
I will say it was quite interesting and useful, I did the online training and passed the included exams.
To be honest I don't think I'll have much hands-on experience with it, it seems more useful when used for proper project management - the stuff I work on is relatively small scale and to be fair it's well beyond my pay scale or skill to implement something like this..
But anyway, the course was interesting enough, I'd recommend the BRE Academy, if they offer the sort of thing you're looking for.
Thanks for the reply and link.Couple months ago I was, for lack of a better phrasing, randomly nominated to complete a BIM online course. It was all done online at my desk, through BRE Academy: https://www.bre.co.uk/academy/page.jsp?id=3516
I will say it was quite interesting and useful, I did the online training and passed the included exams.
To be honest I don't think I'll have much hands-on experience with it, it seems more useful when used for proper project management - the stuff I work on is relatively small scale and to be fair it's well beyond my pay scale or skill to implement something like this..
But anyway, the course was interesting enough, I'd recommend the BRE Academy, if they offer the sort of thing you're looking for.
Much like yourself, my exposure to BIM so far pretty much mirrors your exposure, however it is something I find interesting and beneficial and am keen to pursue further.
Revit is taking over the world................... Resistance is futile.
I think the way to get a BIM Manager type roll is to gain at least 5 years practical experience in using
Revit, then taking an active roll in setting up and creating the multiple type of elements and systems within Revit.
Plus all your management skills of course.
My previous BIM manager who has recently left, had 8 years of Revit experience
Even after a year of off and on of use, mostly on, I have not had the light bulb moment with it yet.
And I've only been drafting since 1984 and CADing since about 1990.
Microstation 2D and 3D, AECOM Building Designer, Prosteel, AutoCAD 2D and 3D,
Good luck. Money is better in manager type rolls and you could work all over the world.
I think the way to get a BIM Manager type roll is to gain at least 5 years practical experience in using
Revit, then taking an active roll in setting up and creating the multiple type of elements and systems within Revit.
Plus all your management skills of course.
My previous BIM manager who has recently left, had 8 years of Revit experience
Even after a year of off and on of use, mostly on, I have not had the light bulb moment with it yet.
And I've only been drafting since 1984 and CADing since about 1990.
Microstation 2D and 3D, AECOM Building Designer, Prosteel, AutoCAD 2D and 3D,
Good luck. Money is better in manager type rolls and you could work all over the world.
Not wishing to start a new thread so resurrecting this one...
So BIM.
Anybody successfully implemented it from the design side? and tips/pointers?
I've lead design teams for fairly large construction schemes for 20+ years but I'm just embarking on my first BIM focused delivery. I'm only aiming at 'towards' Level 2 but after spending the day writing EIR's PIP's etc etc I can't help feeling i'm entering an admin minefield!!
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Cheers in advance
So BIM.
Anybody successfully implemented it from the design side? and tips/pointers?
I've lead design teams for fairly large construction schemes for 20+ years but I'm just embarking on my first BIM focused delivery. I'm only aiming at 'towards' Level 2 but after spending the day writing EIR's PIP's etc etc I can't help feeling i'm entering an admin minefield!!
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Cheers in advance
EIR's and PIP's are you client side? or contractor (main) or design/engineering consultant?
Assuming your a main contractors design manager or BIM manager then you should be drafting the BEP not the EIR's or PIP's which the employers agent should have drafted prior. If they haven't ask them if they really want BIM delivery as odds are the models you'll be getting from the consultant team are not coordinated to point a federated model could be prepared, make sure your commercial team have allowed for model standardisation in terms of time and money if this is case.
Working on the basis you've never done it before download the PAS and start by defining the document numbering protocol then define the level of detail for each stage. I assume you have the CDE in place to hold everything e.g. BIM 360, 4p's etc and not something rubbish like BC.
Now define the federation/coordination drop frequencies after that the scope of the federation reviews (and cycles). Once you've done all this then think about writing the actual BEP.
The TIDP is basically a co-ordinationed combined version of the all the MIDP's prepared by the designers/consultants/subbies which are BIMified IRS's... As the BIM manager you'll need to define the MIDP schedule in terms of formatting and headline items you want/need for the designer to then expand upon.
In simple terms don't think about it as L2 straight away but work up the project plan from L0 to L2, if you have colleagues that are not on their first rodeo then pump them for knowledge extensively.
Assuming your a main contractors design manager or BIM manager then you should be drafting the BEP not the EIR's or PIP's which the employers agent should have drafted prior. If they haven't ask them if they really want BIM delivery as odds are the models you'll be getting from the consultant team are not coordinated to point a federated model could be prepared, make sure your commercial team have allowed for model standardisation in terms of time and money if this is case.
Working on the basis you've never done it before download the PAS and start by defining the document numbering protocol then define the level of detail for each stage. I assume you have the CDE in place to hold everything e.g. BIM 360, 4p's etc and not something rubbish like BC.
Now define the federation/coordination drop frequencies after that the scope of the federation reviews (and cycles). Once you've done all this then think about writing the actual BEP.
The TIDP is basically a co-ordinationed combined version of the all the MIDP's prepared by the designers/consultants/subbies which are BIMified IRS's... As the BIM manager you'll need to define the MIDP schedule in terms of formatting and headline items you want/need for the designer to then expand upon.
In simple terms don't think about it as L2 straight away but work up the project plan from L0 to L2, if you have colleagues that are not on their first rodeo then pump them for knowledge extensively.
Cheers
I'm client (Architect side) so the EIR's/PIP's are mine to do and have been done
We are using BIM360 as it has the docs side as well
I'm also quite relieved that not only did I understand 100% of what you typed, it pretty much aligned 95% with what I proposed in the PIP - so excellent to hear
Much more to learn methinks
Thanks again
I'm client (Architect side) so the EIR's/PIP's are mine to do and have been done
We are using BIM360 as it has the docs side as well
I'm also quite relieved that not only did I understand 100% of what you typed, it pretty much aligned 95% with what I proposed in the PIP - so excellent to hear
Much more to learn methinks
Thanks again
There is a lot of bulls
t around BIM. I spend all day, every day having to wade through it.
BIM Should really be the enabling of a process that allows information to be shared and used by the people that need it when they need it. To ultimately deliver the client the asset they wanted, that they can run from the day they take it over.
In simple terms. As a client, your EIR should tell the project delivery team what you want, when you want it. Whether that be information, drawings or models.
In the EIR tells the delivery teams, what info you need and when during the process you need it to make key decisions. Some clients also produce an Asset Information Requirements document that details what you need in terms of asset information at hand over. But you could make this part of the EIR in my opinion.
The BEP should probably be owned and looked after by the lead designer or contractor and should be a collaborative effort involving anyone who has any input into the design and construction process.
You can often tell how a project will go by how well the initial BIM meeting goes.
If its your first BIM project I would recommend employing the services of a good Information Manager. The IM remains client side and is there to look after your interests, and ensure that the design and construction teams are delivering what you want.
Oh, and if anyone tells you that BIM is just doing a project in Revit. Thank them for their time and walk away.
If you have any other, or more specific questions I'm happy to try and answer them.
t around BIM. I spend all day, every day having to wade through it. BIM Should really be the enabling of a process that allows information to be shared and used by the people that need it when they need it. To ultimately deliver the client the asset they wanted, that they can run from the day they take it over.
In simple terms. As a client, your EIR should tell the project delivery team what you want, when you want it. Whether that be information, drawings or models.
In the EIR tells the delivery teams, what info you need and when during the process you need it to make key decisions. Some clients also produce an Asset Information Requirements document that details what you need in terms of asset information at hand over. But you could make this part of the EIR in my opinion.
The BEP should probably be owned and looked after by the lead designer or contractor and should be a collaborative effort involving anyone who has any input into the design and construction process.
You can often tell how a project will go by how well the initial BIM meeting goes.
If its your first BIM project I would recommend employing the services of a good Information Manager. The IM remains client side and is there to look after your interests, and ensure that the design and construction teams are delivering what you want.
Oh, and if anyone tells you that BIM is just doing a project in Revit. Thank them for their time and walk away.
If you have any other, or more specific questions I'm happy to try and answer them.
Thanks - definitely food for thought there
I've lead the design team on many buildings so I'm fairly comfortable about who does what and when. I left the EIR's a bit open in the information delivery aspect as i'd like to discuss the project in greater depth with them (stage 3ish atm)
We looked at a specific IM but the fees were pretty heavy, that and combined with the thought the IM might well just be asking me for my requirements sort of steered us/me away from their appointment.
I'm hoping (hard! lol) that the CDE we have chosen (BIM360) will allow me to real time the information requests to the team - I'm certainly liking the realtime remote working sessions it enables - that and the post-it/RFI function
From my limited reading it does very much appear the BIM format can easy drag me into an admin minefield which I'm obviously anxious to avoid!
I've lead the design team on many buildings so I'm fairly comfortable about who does what and when. I left the EIR's a bit open in the information delivery aspect as i'd like to discuss the project in greater depth with them (stage 3ish atm)
We looked at a specific IM but the fees were pretty heavy, that and combined with the thought the IM might well just be asking me for my requirements sort of steered us/me away from their appointment.
I'm hoping (hard! lol) that the CDE we have chosen (BIM360) will allow me to real time the information requests to the team - I'm certainly liking the realtime remote working sessions it enables - that and the post-it/RFI function
From my limited reading it does very much appear the BIM format can easy drag me into an admin minefield which I'm obviously anxious to avoid!
So here we are nearing the end of stage 4 on my first BIM level 2 project
To say its been an eye opener would be an understatement
It looks like my (novice) EIR's were accepted readily and adopted by the team - who are vastly more experienced than me. My only real concern is that despite me working my absolute backside off it's become abundantly clear that these projects need vastly more resources to maintain a non BIM programme
I'm utterly shattered and struggling big time to produce information/drawings whilst managing the model - but I can safely say after a clash/co-ordination session this morning we couldn't have sensibly designed the building in a non BIM environment
More swimming through treacle to come
To say its been an eye opener would be an understatement
It looks like my (novice) EIR's were accepted readily and adopted by the team - who are vastly more experienced than me. My only real concern is that despite me working my absolute backside off it's become abundantly clear that these projects need vastly more resources to maintain a non BIM programme
I'm utterly shattered and struggling big time to produce information/drawings whilst managing the model - but I can safely say after a clash/co-ordination session this morning we couldn't have sensibly designed the building in a non BIM environment
More swimming through treacle to come
jules_s said:
So here we are nearing the end of stage 4 on my first BIM level 2 project
To say its been an eye opener would be an understatement
It looks like my (novice) EIR's were accepted readily and adopted by the team - who are vastly more experienced than me. My only real concern is that despite me working my absolute backside off it's become abundantly clear that these projects need vastly more resources to maintain a non BIM programme
I'm utterly shattered and struggling big time to produce information/drawings whilst managing the model - but I can safely say after a clash/co-ordination session this morning we couldn't have sensibly designed the building in a non BIM environment
More swimming through treacle to come
Hi jules_sTo say its been an eye opener would be an understatement
It looks like my (novice) EIR's were accepted readily and adopted by the team - who are vastly more experienced than me. My only real concern is that despite me working my absolute backside off it's become abundantly clear that these projects need vastly more resources to maintain a non BIM programme
I'm utterly shattered and struggling big time to produce information/drawings whilst managing the model - but I can safely say after a clash/co-ordination session this morning we couldn't have sensibly designed the building in a non BIM environment
More swimming through treacle to come
After the project has finished. I would leave it a couple of weeks for the dust to settle but not too long that its not still fresh in your mind.
Sit down on your own and do a project review documenting your thoughts. Consider things like. What went well. What didn't go so well. What would you do differntly. What do you need in place for next time. Could your existing processes and ways of working be caausing issue that could be resolved through working differntly?
Then do the same with your internal project team. I would also ask for feedback from the wider project team too.
When you have done all that can you figure out what you need to put in place so you don't need to work so hard and require more resources.
What have you learned that could make life easier for everyone? Things like, templates and content libraries. Automating drawing setup. Standard clash rules and reporting processes. If using Revit, can Dynamo be of use.
CustardOnChips said:
Hi jules_s
After the project has finished. I would leave it a couple of weeks for the dust to settle but not too long that its not still fresh in your mind.
Sit down on your own and do a project review documenting your thoughts. Consider things like. What went well. What didn't go so well. What would you do differntly. What do you need in place for next time. Could your existing processes and ways of working be caausing issue that could be resolved through working differntly?
Then do the same with your internal project team. I would also ask for feedback from the wider project team too.
When you have done all that can you figure out what you need to put in place so you don't need to work so hard and require more resources.
What have you learned that could make life easier for everyone? Things like, templates and content libraries. Automating drawing setup. Standard clash rules and reporting processes. If using Revit, can Dynamo be of use.
Thanks for that After the project has finished. I would leave it a couple of weeks for the dust to settle but not too long that its not still fresh in your mind.
Sit down on your own and do a project review documenting your thoughts. Consider things like. What went well. What didn't go so well. What would you do differntly. What do you need in place for next time. Could your existing processes and ways of working be caausing issue that could be resolved through working differntly?
Then do the same with your internal project team. I would also ask for feedback from the wider project team too.
When you have done all that can you figure out what you need to put in place so you don't need to work so hard and require more resources.
What have you learned that could make life easier for everyone? Things like, templates and content libraries. Automating drawing setup. Standard clash rules and reporting processes. If using Revit, can Dynamo be of use.
A review is most definitelly in the pipeline - I'm trying to write down as much as possible at the moment tbh which is difficult given the deadline(s)
I started this scheme from scratch. No templates, libraries or familes for that matter. So certainly lots of benefits from using our standard spec etc lots more to do though!
I'm briefing the team in a couple of weeks as a fresh scheme is starting, and it looks like im going to be managing the co-ordination. First stop a big review of the EIR
The biggest aspect for me is to get the PM's/Architects to understand there is a process to be followed and to stop making key decisions on structures/services etc way too late (ie in stage 4!)
And trying to get suitable staff
Within our industry it appears people are slowly joining the BIM train.
We haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
We haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
theguvernor15 said:
Within our industry it appears people are slowly joining the BIM train.
We haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
I think many are now realizing that BIM isn't going away like that had hoped. So now find themselves in a similar position. We haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
Try to think about it more in terms of digital transformation. Look at how you currently work and see how you could change and improve them.
I would happily have all the AutoCAD licenses removed from my company as I genuinely believe it just isn't efficient.
There is a lot of help out there now. Some free, some paid. Take a look at the UK BIM Alliance and find your local BIM Regions group.
theguvernor15 said:
Within our industry it appears people are slowly joining the BIM train.
We haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
I'm Public Sector and we will pretty much be adopting BIM/REVIT/CDE on all our schemes from now onWe haven't adopted it yet, but we're looking into it, the software alone is eye wateringly expensive.
We've been running ACAD for the last 20 years or so (various versions) as it does everything we need, 2D only.
Having spoken with some other people in our industry, they've had to literally take months off the day to day to learn BIM.
I'm glad to see everyone else seems to find the prospect of it daunting!
We're still currently unsure of which way to go as it's a big outlay, both time & money wise for something we'd seldom use on public sector jobs (none of which are currently enforcing it).
I'm not sure Revit will replace CAD completely as there is still the need for 2d drafting even in the model format. I can imagine Revit becoming far better in terms of 2d input though (like AutoCAD)
If you don't jump ship I would seriously be looking at PAS 1192 and get a grasp of it before you get left behind
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