Trials of Finding New Job

[GT03ROB]

Flibble said:

R12HCO said:

Thankyou4calling said:

You aren’t gonna be earning £80,000 driving a dump truck.

£190-200 a day for 'self employed' contractor. This is what a friend is earning in the Midlands (Nottingham/Derby/Leicester But its 'multi skilled' machine driver role, not just a Dump truck. Several tickets required.

And that's about £50k on a 5 day week. Not bad money, but not £80k either.

and that's as a contractor so add in all the other stuff that needs to be covered from that 50k & it's probably a true figure of 35k to compare with the staff office job. There really is so much bks talked about on here when it comes to salaries.

The mate on 80k a year for a 72 hour work week is on around 35k like for like with Mr average PAYE office worker assuming he has no costs of tools/machinery.

Groundworker earns 35k pa does not grab any attention & is far more accurate.

Edited by GT03ROB on Friday 14th June 09:30

[Countdown]

bad company said:

MitchT said:

Had a message about a role from a recruiter on LinkedIn. I went back and asked for the full job spec and salary. Recruiter came back with...

- no job spec
- no salary
- no link to the job on the employer's website
- no link to the employer's careers page

... just a link to the employer's homepage so I could search for it myself!

Exactly what value did this muppet think they were adding?

Sounds like they weren’t instructed to fill the job so couldn’t charge a fee.

How much did the recruiter charge you for the lead?

Edited by bad company on Thursday 13th June 20:59

Edited by bad company on Thursday 13th June 21:14

If MitchT HAD applied for and been offered the job and the only input from the Agency had ben the emails mentioned, could the Agency have asked for a commission from the Employer?

To try to put it into some kind of context - we have had the same people applying directly to us as well as applying through Agencies (multiple agencies in some cases). I assume what the applicant has done is try to double their chances of being shortlisted.

So, if we get a direct application, I have always assumed there is no obligation for us to deal with the Agency?

Edited by Countdown on Friday 14th June 09:31

[p4cks]

GT03ROB said:

and that's as a contractor so add in all the other stuff that needs to be covered from that 50k & it's probably a true figure of 35k to compare with the staff office job. There really is so much bks talked about on here when it comes to salaries.

The mate on 80k a year for a 72 hour work week is on around 35k like for like with Mr average PAYE office worker assuming he has no costs of tools/machinery.

Groundworker earns 35k pa does not grab any attention & is far more accurate.

Yep, people seem to be focused on the top line when it's actually the bottom line they need to be working from.

I know which figure sounds better in the pub obviously but it doesn't impress me in the slightest

[bad company]

Countdown said:

If MitchT HAD applied for and been offered the job and the only input from the Agency had ben the emails mentioned, could the Agency have asked for a commission from the Employer?

To try to put it into some kind of context - we have had the same people applying directly to us as well as applying through Agencies (multiple agencies in some cases). I assume what the applicant has done is try to double their chances of being shortlisted.

So, if we get a direct application, I have always assumed there is no obligation for us to deal with the Agency?

Edited by Countdown on Friday 14th June 09:31

If a candidate applies directly to you it’s probable that you won’t be liable to pay a recruiters fee. It depends on the contract between you and the recruiters though. Legally the term is ‘effective cause’. Was the recruiter the cause of the introduction?

[Countdown]

bad company said:

If a candidate applies directly to you it’s probable that you won’t be liable to pay a recruiters fee. It depends on the contract between you and the recruiters though. Legally the term is ‘effective cause’. Was the recruiter the cause of the introduction?

No contract between us and the recruiters. What normally happens is

1. We'll advertise the job
2. They will spot the advert on Indeed , and phone us saying they have 73m suitable candidates who are totes amazing
3. We'll say "Fine, send in the CVs"

If we don't get enough quality applications through our own advertising we would go through their CVs for shortlisting. Quite often we'll get some CVs from Agencies that have also applied directly, if they meet the criteria we'd invite them directly as we dont think there's any obligation to the Agency.

So, going back to MitchT's example, if he was to apply directly, and get appointed, I cant see why the Company would be obliged to pay anything, and I'm not sure how the Agency could make Mitch pay anything.

[evilmunkey]

Have to say im struggling to find work at the moment , I was self employed in the film industry but work has just fallen off in a big way . I am finding plenty to apply for but not getting many responses.

I have lots of customer service experience , Dwp, Local council, Done driving work (3.5 ton) etc. Now got to the point where i just need to work and applying to supermarkets etc . I am not proud just need to work and earn an honest crust. I hate signing on its soul destroying but keeping the faith something will turn up. Im 51 and wondering if age is going against me a tad.

Many of us in the same spot , Just have to keep at it stay positive and eventually something will turn up .

[vindaloo79]

Countdown said:

To try to put it into some kind of context - we have had the same people applying directly to us as well as applying through Agencies (multiple agencies in some cases). I assume what the applicant has done is try to double their chances of being shortlisted.

Edited by Countdown on Friday 14th June 09:31

I have ended up put forwards for roles by agencies who deliberately are vague about a location and role and submit my CV before it is even apparent it was a duplicate.

I have known in the recession of 2009 agents put my CV forwards because they had it from previous application and I've consequently been declined an interview for duel application.

I wouldn't always assume the applicants has wittingly done that. As the recruiting employer you should be telling the second agent 'no dice' due to not being first with the CV.

[vindaloo79]

evilmunkey said:

Have to say im struggling to find work at the moment , I was self employed in the film industry but work has just fallen off in a big way . I am finding plenty to apply for but not getting many responses.

I have lots of customer service experience , Dwp, Local council, Done driving work (3.5 ton) etc. Now got to the point where i just need to work and applying to supermarkets etc . I am not proud just need to work and earn an honest crust. I hate signing on its soul destroying but keeping the faith something will turn up. Im 51 and wondering if age is going against me a tad.

Many of us in the same spot , Just have to keep at it stay positive and eventually something will turn up .

I interviewed today, i'm applying for about one a fortnight at the rate they are appearing. ten applicants for todays gig so not holding my breath.

I have signed up for amazon deliveries as a backup plan, they are likely to need people in Sept

[p4cks]

I’ve applied for 8 in the past 7 days and have heard absolutely FA from any of them just yet. Early days I know but after almost three months of not working it does get rather tiring

If I have to sell one of my cars I’ll really be most upset.

What has been quite enjoyable about being out of work is finding out just how little money I can live on, when I’m not buying stuff that I don’t really need.

[chunder27]

Having done contract work a lot over the years you soon get used to being a total scrooge when you are not working, takes a lot of will power, but you soon realise the benefits.

You start food shopping frugally, using as little petrol as you can, no expenditure beyond your means, can live quite cheaply in this day and age, even down South.

The endless rejection is awful, the lack of comms even worse, and the utterly useless conversations you have with dumb agency staff worse still, usually end up telling them about the job, and asking them to ask the employer questions so as not to waste my time.

[petop]

The 2 comments above was exactly how i was when looking. I was eating into savings to keep the roof over our heads etc so all the nice things went out the window.....M&S Cheesecake slices late at night, no more!!
But it was surprising how little you can live off. I dont smoke and rarely drink so for me it was easy. As long as i had brews and the odd biscuit (Morrisons own of course!) during job hunting on the sofa then i lasted around 4 months before i was eyeing up the car outside that may have had to be sold. Trouble was i was looking at jobs in the niche specialty i work in. It paid off in the end massively, started back in March. Came back a few weeks ago from a week conference in Athens and Thurs night last week, 10 at night i was standing under a RAF Voyager aircraft discussing a possible project with a customer.
But the whole job hunting process was terrible in how companies or recruiters treat you. Linkedin is full of blonde 20something recruitment "associates" who most of the time dont exist.

[Terminator X]

monkfish1 said:

I often dip into this thread out of interest and always come away slightly bemused.

Im not looking for a job, as i run my own company, but over the last 15 years, by far and away our biggest struggle was finding good people. Ultimately it also proved the demise of our workshop business. Despite being profitable, ultimately we had to close because we simply could not find the people to make it work. The only way to keep it working was huge personal sacrifice in terms of hours and doing the jobs myself, which was unsustainable.

Hence my comment on being bemused. A thread full of people who cant find work, but people llike me cant find the people. Almost everyone i know who runs a business has the same issues to some degree or other.

Sadly i offer no answers, merely an observation!

I'm really not looking forward to the time (which will inevitably arrive, probably soon) where i need to fill roles.

Imho it must be something to do with it all being online now and/or automated in some way. You send in a CV re an online application via an agency and literally get nothing back. Just for the lol's I have actually been sending in my CV for various roles for a few months now and seriously nothing from anyone not even an email or phone call. You can understand why some people are completely fked off with it all.

TX.

Edit - oh and if you are on their email list you keep getting emails with the same jobs for weeks / months on end. So the jobs aren't getting filled it seems and CV's aren't getting answered!

Edited by Terminator X on Saturday 15th June 13:41

[evilmunkey]

vindaloo79 said:

I interviewed today, i'm applying for about one a fortnight at the rate they are appearing. ten applicants for todays gig so not holding my breath.

I have signed up for amazon deliveries as a backup plan, they are likely to need people in Sept

Just done the same with Amazon deliveries, cheers for the heads up funny i didnt think of them. Also applied to the post office too.

Im not too fussy about hours, applied for around 10 vacancies this week of various kinds, Including customer service at Leeds train station . I do fancy that one .

[Pit Pony]

evilmunkey said:

Have to say im struggling to find work at the moment , I was self employed in the film industry but work has just fallen off in a big way . I am finding plenty to apply for but not getting many responses.

I have lots of customer service experience , Dwp, Local council, Done driving work (3.5 ton) etc. Now got to the point where i just need to work and applying to supermarkets etc . I am not proud just need to work and earn an honest crust. I hate signing on its soul destroying but keeping the faith something will turn up. Im 51 and wondering if age is going against me a tad.

Many of us in the same spot , Just have to keep at it stay positive and eventually something will turn up .

I've always found it more difficult with jobs that require no particular qualification. You have too.many competitors.

[Pit Pony]

p4cks said:

I’ve applied for 8 in the past 7 days and have heard absolutely FA from any of them just yet. Early days I know but after almost three months of not working it does get rather tiring

If I have to sell one of my cars I’ll really be most upset.

What has been quite enjoyable about being out of work is finding out just how little money I can live on, when I’m not buying stuff that I don’t really need.

In the occasions when I've been between jobs, if I haven't applied for 8 jobs a day, i think I'm failing. Usually I can do that and send CV speculatively to 10 RCs a day and 10.companies direct.

8 a week ? Is not trying.

[chunder27]

That is nonsense.

And depends entirely on your desperation to work, if you have particular skills you might not find many jobs every day you can apply for and you can also find yourself applying for the same job via multiple agencies with subtle changes in wording. If you want the right job, you have to be more selective, you might have a small area to choose form, or could look at moving. These all factor in and change radically your results.

if you want something or need to work at a certain salary that narrows your options considerably in certain fields, so 8 a week I would think is reasonable if a little low. I used to try and apply for 12 jobs a week, that I was a good fit for, some were hopeful, some were obviously easy and towards the end, I was applying for jobs out of desperation, this is what I eventually got.

[vindaloo79]

Pit Pony said:

In the occasions when I've been between jobs, if I haven't applied for 8 jobs a day, i think I'm failing. Usually I can do that and send CV speculatively to 10 RCs a day and 10.companies direct.

8 a week ? Is not trying.

Is it worth wasting so much time carpet bombing? I also think recruiters will sense desperation if they begin to recognise your profile, that never goes well in my experience.

I tend to focus on either the exact roles I fancy, both the ones my experience is geared up for, and the ones I would like to try, but need to get past the recruiters as gate-keepers. I try and keep to limit time applying, and focus instead on making use of the time off.

I wish everyone the best in continued searching, when you really need a break it can be all consuming.

[evilmunkey]

Happy day today , for the first time an agency has emailed me r.e. a job i applied for end of last week. a 3.5. ton delivery driver role with a decent enough wage . now have an interview for the job next monday . was one i saw on a list of vacancies that landed in my inbox from total jobs an agency i have never had a reply from before. Its a temp job for 6 months with possibility of it extending or becoming perm but as they say , its easier to find a job when your working than not and its better than signing on .

Hope i get it ! just want to bring in a wage , Be productive and claw back some self respect as a working man again .

Looks like the company called Flow Logistics are looking for a few drivers based in Ls9 (Leeds) its a bit of a hike to get to for me but i couldnt care less its work .

[chunder27]

totaljobs is simply a portal not an agency, like Indeed or cv library.

[petop]

evilmunkey said:

Happy day today , for the first time an agency has emailed me r.e. a job i applied for end of last week. a 3.5. ton delivery driver role with a decent enough wage . now have an interview for the job next monday . was one i saw on a list of vacancies that landed in my inbox from total jobs an agency i have never had a reply from before. Its a temp job for 6 months with possibility of it extending or becoming perm but as they say , its easier to find a job when your working than not and its better than signing on .

Hope i get it ! just want to bring in a wage , Be productive and claw back some self respect as a working man again .

Looks like the company called Flow Logistics are looking for a few drivers based in Ls9 (Leeds) its a bit of a hike to get to for me but i couldnt care less its work .

Nice one. Good luck. As i have said i have been in the same boat as you and when you get at least a reply it gets your hopes up.