Managing someone out

Author
Discussion

elanfan

5,516 posts

226 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Just a question no idea how this would work - in the old company he could have been sacked for no reason at all as under 2 years employment. TUPE brings in some protection of terms etc but does it actually protect him from the sack because of insufficient period worked?

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Another option is a restructure forllowing TUPE.

Clearly you’ve won the contract and taking in the team posssibly by cost savings which in part would have to be staf - put him at risk apply for available position he doesn’t get it and length of service dictates (under 2 years) no redundancy off you go.


What is his Sick pay entitlement? I’m guessing max 1 week so monitor this hard and when he does return to work his pay will have that deducted - it’s funny sometimes how well people get quickly when they realise they are only getting SSP.

Naturally if someone is really unwell and a valued employee those rules can and are changed - we have done so in certain circumstances.

johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Another option is a restructure forllowing TUPE.

Clearly you’ve won the contract and taking in the team posssibly by cost savings which in part would have to be staf - put him at risk apply for available position he doesn’t get it and length of service dictates (under 2 years) no redundancy off you go.


What is his Sick pay entitlement? I’m guessing max 1 week so monitor this hard and when he does return to work his pay will have that deducted - it’s funny sometimes how well people get quickly when they realise they are only getting SSP.

Naturally if someone is really unwell and a valued employee those rules can and are changed - we have done so in certain circumstances.
Is this for your imaginary finance director role ?

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
One of the Senior Managers at a firm I worked for was promoted to a new role based in South Africa. A few weeks after he got there he was fired.

Job jobbed.

Countdown

39,691 posts

195 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
One of the Senior Managers at a firm I worked for was promoted to a new role based in South Africa. A few weeks after he got there he was fired.

Job jobbed.
If he could be fired in SA why couldn't he be fired in the UK?

Countdown

39,691 posts

195 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Is this for your imaginary finance director role ?
biggrin

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Is this for your imaginary finance director role ?
You’d be very surprised if you knew which industry I worked in.

Say no more.

bad company

18,484 posts

265 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Countdown said:
bad company said:
One of the Senior Managers at a firm I worked for was promoted to a new role based in South Africa. A few weeks after he got there he was fired.

Job jobbed.
If he could be fired in SA why couldn't he be fired in the UK?
Because he’d been with the company for several years and had employment rights over here.

Countdown

39,691 posts

195 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
bad company said:
Countdown said:
bad company said:
One of the Senior Managers at a firm I worked for was promoted to a new role based in South Africa. A few weeks after he got there he was fired.

Job jobbed.
If he could be fired in SA why couldn't he be fired in the UK?
Because he’d been with the company for several years and had employment rights over here.
Fair enough. I hadn't realised your employment rights changed if you were located overseas whilst working for the same company.

Could I ask my PA to move to Saudi Arabia and then claim droit de seigneur ? scratchchin

schmunk

4,399 posts

124 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Is this for your imaginary finance director role ?
It's not imaginary:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45833597

Kev_Mk3

2,742 posts

94 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
I don’t work in HR so will be a lot more to it but in my eyes If he isn't wearing PPE then disciplinary route as it’s a hazard. If he blames the chrones card ask for medical evidence so you can put proper procedures and treatment in place. When he can’t produce this then he must do the correct PPE process if not wave him goodbye

johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
You’d be very surprised if you knew which industry I worked in.

Say no more.
Not sure why you think anyone cares

techguyone

3,137 posts

141 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
p4cks said:
Countdown said:
"Friendly chat"
Union rep called in
Initial meeting held between management, HR, Union Rep, Individual
Improvement points agreed (timescale of 3 months)
3 months later - meeting postponed due to Union rep unavailable)
1 month later - Individual goes off sick
2 months later - individual raises grievance accusing Director of harassing him while he's off sick
1 month later - rescheduled "performance meeting" takes place. Union argues that performance hasn't improved due to sickness
Union argues that Perf Improvement Plan should be put on hold until Grievance has been resolved.
Separate chain of meetings being held in respect of the company's Disciplinary & Grievance Policy
Grievance not upheld - Mgmt re-instate performance mgmt meetings
Unions argue that timetable needs to be increased
Unions argue that Employee needs further training.
Employee goes off with anxiety and stress
Unions point out that "anxiery and stress" is a recognised disability and that the Employer has a legal duty to make reasonable adjustments..
Employee asks to work from home 4 days a week as a reasonable adjustment.
I could go on.....
Yep - pretty much my experience when managing poor performance in my last place too
How strange, in my experience the Union isn't a Teflon suit to protect you from disciplinary procedures - naturally you have to have your st straight though. This isn't the 70's the Union isn't a scary monster anymore.

And my old business had a really ste time in the 70/80's with Unions (News Wholesaler trade)

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Welshbeef said:
You’d be very surprised if you knew which industry I worked in.

Say no more.
Not sure why you think anyone cares
?
Well you clearly do else you wouldn’t have posted it in the first instance.

Confused dot com

johnwilliams77

8,308 posts

102 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
?
Well you clearly do else you wouldn’t have posted it in the first instance.

Confused dot com
Nope
I don’t give a toss what industry you work in and do not recall asking you which industry you work in.

Countdown

39,691 posts

195 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
techguyone said:
How strange, in my experience the Union isn't a Teflon suit to protect you from disciplinary procedures - naturally you have to have your st straight though. This isn't the 70's the Union isn't a scary monster anymore.

And my old business had a really ste time in the 70/80's with Unions (News Wholesaler trade)
It depends on two things ; the approach/style of the Union rep and the experience/attitude of the employee. I've worked in organisations where there were 3 Unions; the reps for two of them were absolutely fine, sensible, and working towards a solution that was mutually beneficial to both employee and employer. the 3rd one behaved like a rabid pitbull. Anything and everything was the fault of "Management" who had no understanding of the victorian conditions that his poor members were being forced to work under and it was completely normal for an employee to be off sick when their cat had died.


Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Friday 12th October 2018
quotequote all
johnwilliams77 said:
Welshbeef said:
?
Well you clearly do else you wouldn’t have posted it in the first instance.

Confused dot com
Nope
I don’t give a toss what industry you work in and do not recall asking you which industry you work in.
How strange - you mentioned my user name and my role? Totally irrelevant to the thread, why did you do that
Confused dot com.

The OP is not interested in your post nor is anyone else as it’s utterely irrelevant to the thread

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Wednesday 17th October 2018
quotequote all
How is it lazy if he does his 7.5 hour to the tee. 07.59 to 16.01. That is immaculate time keeping to me. You should never expect employees to work longer than their hours for free.

rsbmw

3,464 posts

104 months

Wednesday 17th October 2018
quotequote all
It simply demonstrates a 'bare minimum' mindset. You rarely find individuals with that mind set much above the bottom rung of the ladder, for good reason.

As I've said to people before, it's not about simply getting in 15 mins early and leaving 15 mins late because that's what's expected, as that only demonstrates the same attitude. Coming in early/leaving late/answering emails in the evening when necessary to get something delivered is typically what sets your good/go-to employees apart from the bunch.

Edited by rsbmw on Wednesday 17th October 15:53

Countdown

39,691 posts

195 months

Wednesday 17th October 2018
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
How is it lazy if he does his 7.5 hour to the tee. 07.59 to 16.01. That is immaculate time keeping to me. You should never expect employees to work longer than their hours for free.
That's true but quite often i find that a person with that kind of mentality has usually spent the 7.5 hours doing as little as possible as well. i.e. its not that theyve put in 7.5 hours of hard graft, it's 7 hours of moaning, skiving, and buggering off as soon as they can