Struggling to recruit - Account Manager, Wiltshire
Discussion
Hi all,
I run a company that provides training to corporate clients in the field of software development.
The business is well-established (coming up for 10 years) and we've decided it's time to expand from our current size which is myself and my business partner, a full-time administrator and a tribe of sub-contractors and HR & Marketing free-lancers. I'm looking forward to the challenges this will bring, but we're currently struggling to jump the first hurdle, which is finding suitable candidates to interview for an account manager's position.
We are in the fortunate position that the incoming flow of new business means we simply don't have enough time to maximise the opportunities arising from existing and historic clients. We need at least one full-time member of staff who is focused on developing those relationships - expanding our reach in larger clients and ensuring we are a present in the minds of old clients when they come back to the marketplace for further assistance.
It's ideally suited to someone with 2 - 5 years in a similar role, we're happy to provide on-the-job training/mentoring as well as formal training to the right candidate. There is genuine scope for career progression as the company expands further over the next few years.
We've had the role on Indeed.com for a month or so and gone down the PPC route to ensure the advert is always visible in searches.
So far we've had quite a few applications, but we seem only to be attracting people with 20 years + experience in more senior sales and management roles, people with almost no relevant experience at all, or people who've changed jobs every 18 months.
Given our goal is to build the business long-term, we are looking for people we can invest in and who will be happy in their role for a decent period of time.
Given our location is north Wiltshire we clearly won't have a huge pool of potential applicants, but it's hardly the Scottish Highlands!
Any ideas?
I run a company that provides training to corporate clients in the field of software development.
The business is well-established (coming up for 10 years) and we've decided it's time to expand from our current size which is myself and my business partner, a full-time administrator and a tribe of sub-contractors and HR & Marketing free-lancers. I'm looking forward to the challenges this will bring, but we're currently struggling to jump the first hurdle, which is finding suitable candidates to interview for an account manager's position.
We are in the fortunate position that the incoming flow of new business means we simply don't have enough time to maximise the opportunities arising from existing and historic clients. We need at least one full-time member of staff who is focused on developing those relationships - expanding our reach in larger clients and ensuring we are a present in the minds of old clients when they come back to the marketplace for further assistance.
It's ideally suited to someone with 2 - 5 years in a similar role, we're happy to provide on-the-job training/mentoring as well as formal training to the right candidate. There is genuine scope for career progression as the company expands further over the next few years.
We've had the role on Indeed.com for a month or so and gone down the PPC route to ensure the advert is always visible in searches.
So far we've had quite a few applications, but we seem only to be attracting people with 20 years + experience in more senior sales and management roles, people with almost no relevant experience at all, or people who've changed jobs every 18 months.
Given our goal is to build the business long-term, we are looking for people we can invest in and who will be happy in their role for a decent period of time.
Given our location is north Wiltshire we clearly won't have a huge pool of potential applicants, but it's hardly the Scottish Highlands!
Any ideas?
look closely at the people who appear to have moved jobs often. i got picked up on this twice on my CV and had to explain (again) that the first job was only contract covering maternity leave and the next job i got made redundant from. people might be job hoppers but many are in the same position where it out of their control and they could actually be the perfect applicant.
you could offer a 3 month trial maybe with a get out on both side if they dont like you or you dont like them.......it should give you some breathing space.
you could offer a 3 month trial maybe with a get out on both side if they dont like you or you dont like them.......it should give you some breathing space.
Would all be dependent on the package. I work in a similar role, but different industry so know the ball park you should be in.
I presume north Wiltshire means north of Swindon. The people you are trying to attract would have relatively easy routes to Reading/London for higher salary jobs, potentially.
I presume north Wiltshire means north of Swindon. The people you are trying to attract would have relatively easy routes to Reading/London for higher salary jobs, potentially.
I do a similar role in Newbury for a small business. Most Account Managers are looking for a good package on basic, commission and benefits. Many small businesses cannot compete on this level so you need to really sell it on the business culture and growth opportunity.
I love my job and the small firm I work for. I could earn more elsewhere but the company culture, work environment and feeling I can make a difference to business mean I'm happy to have less money in my pocket.
I love my job and the small firm I work for. I could earn more elsewhere but the company culture, work environment and feeling I can make a difference to business mean I'm happy to have less money in my pocket.
Thanks all - some useful comments here.
We do give an indication that the package will be competitive. Whilst we are now based in Wiltshire, we set the business up in London and our activities aren't geographically linked to where our we are based - we have key clients across the UK and in EU/US. We are actually more profitable since we moved out of London - we charge our clients the same, pay our subcontractors the same but our fixed costs are significantly lower. Basically the company can afford to pay London salaries for the right person.
The job-hopping isn't an immediate 'no' and I am trying to read between the lines. I certainly don't have the most linear career path!
However someone who has been in sales roles for 15/20 years and have generally only stayed in one place for 18/24 months before moving just doesn't fill me with confidence.
I suspect I wasn't clear. We're not struggling in terms of attracting expensive, experienced people - in fact we've had plenty and we're considering hiring one applicant as a senior new business salesperson, howevert the A/M position is a junior role and needs a junior candidate.
It's these, more junior, applicants that we're not hearing from and I need help in finding!
We do give an indication that the package will be competitive. Whilst we are now based in Wiltshire, we set the business up in London and our activities aren't geographically linked to where our we are based - we have key clients across the UK and in EU/US. We are actually more profitable since we moved out of London - we charge our clients the same, pay our subcontractors the same but our fixed costs are significantly lower. Basically the company can afford to pay London salaries for the right person.
The job-hopping isn't an immediate 'no' and I am trying to read between the lines. I certainly don't have the most linear career path!
However someone who has been in sales roles for 15/20 years and have generally only stayed in one place for 18/24 months before moving just doesn't fill me with confidence.
I suspect I wasn't clear. We're not struggling in terms of attracting expensive, experienced people - in fact we've had plenty and we're considering hiring one applicant as a senior new business salesperson, howevert the A/M position is a junior role and needs a junior candidate.
It's these, more junior, applicants that we're not hearing from and I need help in finding!
keirik said:
CaptainSlow said:
Do you actually put a £ value for the role anywhere? Just putting "competitive" would put me off from applying.
Me too. Competitive rarely means competitive. It usually means "as little above your current salary as we can get away with".CaptainSlow said:
keirik said:
CaptainSlow said:
Do you actually put a £ value for the role anywhere? Just putting "competitive" would put me off from applying.
Me too. Competitive rarely means competitive. It usually means "as little above your current salary as we can get away with".I wouldn't apply to a 'competitive' role either - I'd need to know the amount (or banding) so I knew I wasn't wasting my time etc.
Another one to check for 18 months - that's not considered short in IT contracting.
It occurs from your role description you could really attract a long term IT contract/consultant that wanted a move from the City to a nicer standard of living in Wiltshire.
I for example spent a few years as an Account Manager for a big consultancy, but as a freelancer, so I then moved on to other roles as they came up etc.
Another one to check for 18 months - that's not considered short in IT contracting.
It occurs from your role description you could really attract a long term IT contract/consultant that wanted a move from the City to a nicer standard of living in Wiltshire.
I for example spent a few years as an Account Manager for a big consultancy, but as a freelancer, so I then moved on to other roles as they came up etc.
No - I haven't put a salary figure in there. At best I could put a range for basic salary with 'reasonable' commission.
Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
Edited to add: I'm obviously not hiring an IT Contractor - in the dim and distant past I recruited many IT contractors into software development roles and I entirely agree that a clear expression of rate is vital in that context - there's a fixed function that needs filling and that function has a clear rate/value.
However this is a permanent office-based role for a non-technical person with quite a wide variance of possible salary due experience levels. I think the lack of salary is a red herring here - unless any of the posters above are 1/2 years out of university looking for a junior role, whether you would apply is not entirely relevant!
Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
Edited to add: I'm obviously not hiring an IT Contractor - in the dim and distant past I recruited many IT contractors into software development roles and I entirely agree that a clear expression of rate is vital in that context - there's a fixed function that needs filling and that function has a clear rate/value.
However this is a permanent office-based role for a non-technical person with quite a wide variance of possible salary due experience levels. I think the lack of salary is a red herring here - unless any of the posters above are 1/2 years out of university looking for a junior role, whether you would apply is not entirely relevant!
Edited by maturin23 on Tuesday 16th October 14:07
maturin23 said:
No - I haven't put a salary figure in there. At best I could put a range for basic salary with 'reasonable' commission.
Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
I suspect it's stopping Lots of people applying.Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
Out of interest what is the basic? I may know someone.
maturin23 said:
No - I haven't put a salary figure in there. At best I could put a range for basic salary with 'reasonable' commission.
Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
I really do think it's preventing people from applying personally.Whilst I appreciate the comments, do you really think it's the absence of this that's preventing junior candidates applying?
Is the role based in the office in Wiltshire? I'm guessing it's on the road a lot if account manager for clients?
I know you have indicated that you want to build long term loyalty etc - but people come and go, that's the nature of life and business (no matter how well they're paid)
Would you not consider someone on a daily rate? You could be missing out on a big market.
I know several people that do various versions of what I do (Account management is a % of everyone's job) - and you might find they'd take that role for less than their current daily rate because it seems like a nice and interesting role.
Plus you could afford to pay them more, because you wouldn't have to worry about expenses, salary or sick pay etc
We've already run the business successfully using contract staff and outsourcing things like HR, marketing, telemarketing campaigns etc.
I want to grow the business so it's eventually able to function successfully without too much day-to-day input from me - this means hiring people for the long term rather than just paying to temp staff to get jobs done.
We are looking to pay a basic of between £20k/£30k with an anticipated commission/bonuses of £10k/£15k on top. These are such broad ranges that they are pretty much meaningless though.
It's not really a field sales role. Most of our business is done via telephone and email and most clients are in London so a day in town every couple of weeks would suffice.
I want to grow the business so it's eventually able to function successfully without too much day-to-day input from me - this means hiring people for the long term rather than just paying to temp staff to get jobs done.
We are looking to pay a basic of between £20k/£30k with an anticipated commission/bonuses of £10k/£15k on top. These are such broad ranges that they are pretty much meaningless though.
It's not really a field sales role. Most of our business is done via telephone and email and most clients are in London so a day in town every couple of weeks would suffice.
HorneyMX5 said:
I do a similar role in Newbury for a small business. Most Account Managers are looking for a good package on basic, commission and benefits. Many small businesses cannot compete on this level so you need to really sell it on the business culture and growth opportunity.
I love my job and the small firm I work for. I could earn more elsewhere but the company culture, work environment and feeling I can make a difference to business mean I'm happy to have less money in my pocket.
I'm exactly the same.I love my job and the small firm I work for. I could earn more elsewhere but the company culture, work environment and feeling I can make a difference to business mean I'm happy to have less money in my pocket.
I'm an account manager for an IT VAR, we're also a small business and love the team I work with. I'm given pretty much free rein to manage myself, there's no strict dress code, it's local so no more hellish commute, I don't have to deal with the 'corporate b
ks' I've had to endure at larger firms (my last company was 3k+ people) and I see daily what my contribution adds to the business. The harder I work, the more I earn and the more company benefits.We're a tight team and everyone gets along outside work as much as in it. The icing on the cake is that I've not had to compromise on earning potential either but even if I could earn 50% more elsewhere at a bigger more 'corporate' firm I genuinely don't think I'd take it. There's more to enjoying work than a pay packet.
I'd also echo not dismissing the 'short stints' thing on prospective candidates' CVs; I had several roles of 1-2 years each before landing at my previous role in 2005 (I was there 7 years) and my current role (6 years and counting). Unfortunately a lot of companies say what they think you want to hear in the interview and it's only when you get there you find out the role's not what you were lead to believe. So you stick it out for a year or so then move on if things don't get better or change.
Also "£competitive" on an ad guarantees I'll skip past it, I'll also ignore ads which only state an OTE total. Experience has shown that the stated OTEs are often unrealistic and it's only the top person who's been there 10 years earning that much...
Hope this helps with an insight into the mindset of an account manager who works for a small IT company selling hardware and software!
maturin23 said:
We are looking to pay a basic of between £20k/£30k with an anticipated commission/bonuses of £10k/£15k on top. These are such broad ranges that they are pretty much meaningless though.
Why the broad range? Why not just state a figure? That looks like you are actively trying to recruit someone on as little as you can get away with.Why not just state £25k basic, and commission and bonus structure to £15k?
Sounds a lot better. And any other benefits? Fully expensed car? Private Healthcare? List it all out. By being shy you are not selling your company.
Ok - the salary I think may not be helping - and the competitive thing.
As, account managers is a general term. That's usually when you've excelled at your field and you are going up a rank in the consultancies I've worked for.
We were paying 75k + bonus - so if I read competitive I think that ball park.
If you've got people applying with 20 years experience they aren't going to be interested in 30k - hence why 'competitive' is a bad term in this case.
Agree with everyone else, definitely spell it out so you don't waste your time or others.
As, account managers is a general term. That's usually when you've excelled at your field and you are going up a rank in the consultancies I've worked for.
We were paying 75k + bonus - so if I read competitive I think that ball park.
If you've got people applying with 20 years experience they aren't going to be interested in 30k - hence why 'competitive' is a bad term in this case.
Agree with everyone else, definitely spell it out so you don't waste your time or others.
The role is junior - it's clearly stated in the job advert that we are looking for 2-5 years experience and would consider less.
There seems to be a little saltiness out there about not giving a fixed salary - with the takeaway to some is that we're trying to screw the applicant.
The reality is that we'll take someone with very little experience if feel the person is a good 'fit' in terms of personality and potential but we're not going to pay that person the same as someone with 5 years or more experience.
Hence the range rather than a fixed amount.
I'm still sensing a lack of comprehension in some of the replies
- I'm really not interested in senior candidates and would be happy if the lack of listed salary meant these types didn't apply.
I'm asking for guidance on how to find junior staff - I've not had a single person with 1 - 5 years experience apply.
Are there better places to advertise? Other routes to finding bright young things?
There seems to be a little saltiness out there about not giving a fixed salary - with the takeaway to some is that we're trying to screw the applicant.
The reality is that we'll take someone with very little experience if feel the person is a good 'fit' in terms of personality and potential but we're not going to pay that person the same as someone with 5 years or more experience.
Hence the range rather than a fixed amount.
I'm still sensing a lack of comprehension in some of the replies
- I'm really not interested in senior candidates and would be happy if the lack of listed salary meant these types didn't apply. I'm asking for guidance on how to find junior staff - I've not had a single person with 1 - 5 years experience apply.
Are there better places to advertise? Other routes to finding bright young things?
p1stonhead said:
CaptainSlow said:
keirik said:
CaptainSlow said:
Do you actually put a £ value for the role anywhere? Just putting "competitive" would put me off from applying.
Me too. Competitive rarely means competitive. It usually means "as little above your current salary as we can get away with".Put a range. Even if it's £30k-£50k, you don't have to narrow it down to the nearest tenner.
EDIT: just noted you've put a range above. Nothing wrong with that. It would also stop the 20+ years people applying, so saving you some time on that. Trouble is, "account manager" is such a widely used term is could mean lots of things nowadays.
Edited by crofty1984 on Tuesday 16th October 15:42
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff