Working beyond contracted hours
Discussion
Robertj21a said:
Probably depends on whether you want to work as part of a team or just want a job that pays you by the hour.
I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
As I said above if I am asked (never told) to work beyond the end of my shift I get a half day in lieu, overtime shifts (can’t tack overtime onto an existing shift) are paid generously. I work as part of a team that is very tight, we make a lot of decisions that affect each other and do our absolute best to help each other out, most of our work is done in pairs and yet none of that requires that we work for free.I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
Working extra hours and not getting paid for it often has little to do with teamwork and actually I’d argue it’s often the opposite. Most people on here that do it claim it helps them stand out from the others, they’re not doing it to be team players they’re doing it to climb the greasy pole a bit easier. Either way they should be getting paid for it, that’s the only reason we go to work after all.
Nickbrapp said:
mcg_ said:
hooblah said:
What's the law on travel time to and from work? I vaguely remember something about a new law that was coming in to say it counts as working time.
I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
interested to know what you do for a job?I don't mind working longer hours than stated on my contract, but I expect to be paid for it. If not, I'll walk.
Recently it’s been deemed it should be rolled out to anyone without a perminant base as commutes to different premises in their daily duty, IE a traveling salesman, mobile carer, service engineer etc
I think it’s fair, and I get around £6k a year from it
But if I travel for work then I would expect to be compensated for example traveling in my time to clients in US, etc.
djc206 said:
Robertj21a said:
Probably depends on whether you want to work as part of a team or just want a job that pays you by the hour.
I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
As I said above if I am asked (never told) to work beyond the end of my shift I get a half day in lieu, overtime shifts (can’t tack overtime onto an existing shift) are paid generously. I work as part of a team that is very tight, we make a lot of decisions that affect each other and do our absolute best to help each other out, most of our work is done in pairs and yet none of that requires that we work for free.I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
Working extra hours and not getting paid for it often has little to do with teamwork and actually I’d argue it’s often the opposite. Most people on here that do it claim it helps them stand out from the others, they’re not doing it to be team players they’re doing it to climb the greasy pole a bit easier. Either way they should be getting paid for it, that’s the only reason we go to work after all.
Zarco said:
Depends to some extent if you are paid by the hour or on salary IMHO. amongst umpteen other things.
Salary.I don’t see the difference. I’m contracted 35 hours per week, I can work out what my hourly pay is from that, working extra hours for free would just dilute my value.
Du1point8 said:
Not quite the same as choosing to live outside of London by 90 mins and getting paid the 3 hours a day traveling then getting that travel time, I assume that is not the law as that is by choice.
But if I travel for work then I would expect to be compensated for example traveling in my time to clients in US, etc.
Oh no of course not, if you’re stupid enough to want to work in London and commute that far because you get paid £10k more that’s your own fault. It’s not the employer making you come that far. But if you’re then staying at that office for 3 hours extra then you should be paid for it, as quite rightly it brings down your hourly worth, gives employers a skewed view of how well the company is really doing and sets the bar that other people should be staying late.But if I travel for work then I would expect to be compensated for example traveling in my time to clients in US, etc.
My productivity drops right off after about 3:30-4pm so if I worked late every night I would
Get very little actual work done.
I have noticed that when going back to sites after someone has worked on late or been called out in the late night, you find your self rectifying faults etc.
The OP is talking about 2 different things.
1) The culture of people working longer hours to improve their chances of pay rises and promotions.
This has always gone on and always will. It also applies to almost every industry / job in the land. The people who put in more effort tend to be the ones who get noticed and they are doing it *because* they want to get further up the ladder. They are proving their worth to the Company. In a job I used to work in the normal guys would be on about £30k PA. The managers were on about twice that, thus there was always competition to get that promotion..
2) The culture of companies expecting people to work longer, possibly feeding into the above.
This IMHO is more subjective and a much more complex issue. Again looking back at my old jobs you were generally expected to work 40 hours but if there was a big job on or a major problem then you worked what was needed. We were paid well, the company looked after us and you have to put out if needed. The example I can think of is a guy who had an accident on holiday and ended off work for almost a year on full pay. They did not need to do that but after 15 years of service they looked after him. It works both ways.
Another issue at the lower end / smaller business side of things is the cost to employ someone has really increased over the last 10 years. So where a small business might have had 10 staff before the recession now they might make do with 6 or 7 to keep costs similar. The actual cost of goods and services has not really changed much in a long time (IMHO) but the cost to employ someone has. (again IMHO).
There are plenty of other issues but the bottom line is, if you don't like it go and work somewhere else for a better deal. All of a sudden people are much more reluctant to jump ship. See 1. People actually want to look after no 1 they might talk the talk in the office in front of everyone else but the majority just want to get into the best position for themselves.
1) The culture of people working longer hours to improve their chances of pay rises and promotions.
This has always gone on and always will. It also applies to almost every industry / job in the land. The people who put in more effort tend to be the ones who get noticed and they are doing it *because* they want to get further up the ladder. They are proving their worth to the Company. In a job I used to work in the normal guys would be on about £30k PA. The managers were on about twice that, thus there was always competition to get that promotion..
2) The culture of companies expecting people to work longer, possibly feeding into the above.
This IMHO is more subjective and a much more complex issue. Again looking back at my old jobs you were generally expected to work 40 hours but if there was a big job on or a major problem then you worked what was needed. We were paid well, the company looked after us and you have to put out if needed. The example I can think of is a guy who had an accident on holiday and ended off work for almost a year on full pay. They did not need to do that but after 15 years of service they looked after him. It works both ways.
Another issue at the lower end / smaller business side of things is the cost to employ someone has really increased over the last 10 years. So where a small business might have had 10 staff before the recession now they might make do with 6 or 7 to keep costs similar. The actual cost of goods and services has not really changed much in a long time (IMHO) but the cost to employ someone has. (again IMHO).
There are plenty of other issues but the bottom line is, if you don't like it go and work somewhere else for a better deal. All of a sudden people are much more reluctant to jump ship. See 1. People actually want to look after no 1 they might talk the talk in the office in front of everyone else but the majority just want to get into the best position for themselves.
djc206 said:
Robertj21a said:
Probably depends on whether you want to work as part of a team or just want a job that pays you by the hour.
I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
As I said above if I am asked (never told) to work beyond the end of my shift I get a half day in lieu, overtime shifts (can’t tack overtime onto an existing shift) are paid generously. I work as part of a team that is very tight, we make a lot of decisions that affect each other and do our absolute best to help each other out, most of our work is done in pairs and yet none of that requires that we work for free.I've always worked as part of a team, it's far more enjoyable and gives great satisfaction. Usually I've worked a few extra hours, but then taken time off, fairly easily, if it was necessary.
If you want a job where you work by the clock all the time then you won't be a team player and might as well do any basic job that just pays per hour/minute.
Working extra hours and not getting paid for it often has little to do with teamwork and actually I’d argue it’s often the opposite. Most people on here that do it claim it helps them stand out from the others, they’re not doing it to be team players they’re doing it to climb the greasy pole a bit easier. Either way they should be getting paid for it, that’s the only reason we go to work after all.
Pay isn't the *only* reason we go to work.
Robertj21a said:
That may well apply to your situation, it doesn't to mine, or others I'm aware of. There's a good deal of personal achievement in working as part of a team (I'm only talking loosely, as in across the UK) and that is far more important to me than calculating whether or not I'm due a few quid. If I didn't also have a lot of freedom and flexibility then I would probably go to work elsewhere.
Pay isn't the *only* reason we go to work.
Your original response was to a police officer, I think their version of teamwork where you rush into an unknown situation putting yourself in harms way to aid a colleague has to be the best example of teamwork going.Pay isn't the *only* reason we go to work.
Ultimately it is though isn’t it. How many of us would show up at our workplaces tomorrow if they said we weren’t going to get paid to do so.
djc206 said:
Robertj21a said:
That may well apply to your situation, it doesn't to mine, or others I'm aware of. There's a good deal of personal achievement in working as part of a team (I'm only talking loosely, as in across the UK) and that is far more important to me than calculating whether or not I'm due a few quid. If I didn't also have a lot of freedom and flexibility then I would probably go to work elsewhere.
Pay isn't the *only* reason we go to work.
Your original response was to a police officer, I think their version of teamwork where you rush into an unknown situation putting yourself in harms way to aid a colleague has to be the best example of teamwork going.Pay isn't the *only* reason we go to work.
Ultimately it is though isn’t it. How many of us would show up at our workplaces tomorrow if they said we weren’t going to get paid to do so.
I've never seen any problem at all in starting a bit earlier, or staying a bit later, to get a particularly job done. It might be a lengthy, difficult, job and may need the assistance of some colleagues to resolve critical issues. I wouldn't even consider just walking out in the middle of a critical problem simply because my paid hours were up. It may take another 10-20 minutes to resolve the issue, park it up neatly, or hand it on to others but I'd never just walk out - totally unprofessional.
This is why you will always have entrepreneurs, the self-employed, and quality businesses. The staff are far more committed to the overall standing of the organisation than the guy on the production line whose only role is turning out widgets - who, quite understandably, will clock off at the appointed time, regardless.
kiethton said:
I think for a salaried role it needs a bit of give and take, some roles by nature need more than the basic hours (client time zones etc.) but you need a good employer that recognises what you do and let’s you go for the occasional appointment in “work hours”.
Mine is one, my contracted hours are 7:00-17:00 Monday-Friday but in reality this is 06:40-19:30 Monday to Friday and every other Saturday afternoon....it’s all part of the job
What do you get back for all those extra hours?Mine is one, my contracted hours are 7:00-17:00 Monday-Friday but in reality this is 06:40-19:30 Monday to Friday and every other Saturday afternoon....it’s all part of the job
Working extra hours (and lots of them) is almost standard in the industry in which I work. Most companies pay hourly fortunately.
I’m just a contractor at the place I’m at now but they recently rejected an application for a perm job of a mate of mine because he was ‘only’ willing to work 50 hours per week. Crazy.
I’d really like to retrain in something a bit less demanding on free time.
I’m just a contractor at the place I’m at now but they recently rejected an application for a perm job of a mate of mine because he was ‘only’ willing to work 50 hours per week. Crazy.
I’d really like to retrain in something a bit less demanding on free time.
HantsRat said:
This seems to be a very worrying increasing issue in my opinion. More and more employers these days seem to expect staff to work beyond your contracted hours for no extra pay, time off in lieu or other gain.
In my previous roles before my current one I worked in both public and private sector in IT with varying hours. Not being big headed I was always one of the better performers and just cracked on with the job. Bar the odd occasion when I needed to stay a little later due to a call over running for 30 mins I always finished at my finish time.
I think it's wrong that employees in certain roles feel they need to stay longer to give a good impression. Surely I'm not in the minority that if your contract states 8:00 start and 16:00 finish.. You start at 8 and finish at 4?
I blame this ridiculous wolf of wall street culture.
Increasing issue? Everywhere that I've worked people have always worked way over their core hours.In my previous roles before my current one I worked in both public and private sector in IT with varying hours. Not being big headed I was always one of the better performers and just cracked on with the job. Bar the odd occasion when I needed to stay a little later due to a call over running for 30 mins I always finished at my finish time.
I think it's wrong that employees in certain roles feel they need to stay longer to give a good impression. Surely I'm not in the minority that if your contract states 8:00 start and 16:00 finish.. You start at 8 and finish at 4?
I blame this ridiculous wolf of wall street culture.
Have you been under a rock?
Sa Calobra said:
Increasing issue? Everywhere that I've worked people have always worked way over their core hours.
Have you been under a rock?
Nope in all my previous jobs everyone left at their finish time apart from the rare occasion somethings needed doing. Mixture of public & private sector. Have you been under a rock?
HantsRat said:
Nope in all my previous jobs everyone left at their finish time apart from the rare occasion somethings needed doing. Mixture of public & private sector.
I think if public sector is as in local councils etc then it's standard practice to walk out at the very minute that you reach your contracted hours.ToothbrushMan said:
If youve got loads of staff all doing unpaid overtime it is going to give those at the top of a company a very false picture of how that company is actually performing ie; there is such a volume of work to be done but somehow my team is coping in the allotted hours (most bosses wont have a clue about you working extra as they usually blaze at 5).
why hire more headcount (clearly the volume of work exists otherwise we wouldnt have to put in more hours - right?)
if your existing team "seems" to be handling everything fine thank you very much. Its wrong. Its the wrong way to run a business but I suspect businesses up and down the land rely on peoples good nature because they know a lot of people fear for their jobs. Not a healthy way to do things.
for me salaried staff not getting paid for additional hours was the start of the thin end of the wedge where we now have zero hours/gig economy/race to the bottom.
This.why hire more headcount (clearly the volume of work exists otherwise we wouldnt have to put in more hours - right?)
if your existing team "seems" to be handling everything fine thank you very much. Its wrong. Its the wrong way to run a business but I suspect businesses up and down the land rely on peoples good nature because they know a lot of people fear for their jobs. Not a healthy way to do things.
for me salaried staff not getting paid for additional hours was the start of the thin end of the wedge where we now have zero hours/gig economy/race to the bottom.
A team of 7 coming in 30 minutes early every day, taking a short lunch & staying 30 minutes late means the business is under resourced to the tune of a 1.2 people, in just one team.
Why would the business pay out for another person when it's just a little bit of O/T for everyone? They are basically having your pants down to make more money.
If managers & staff actually had the balls to stand up to their managers, then the people at the top of the tree might, just might have more of a real reflection of the current state of the business, rather than relying on a carrot being dangled, miles away.
FWIW, my team come in at 8.30 & leave at 4.30. It was endemic in this industry for people working crazy hours (yet not actually achieving any more than an efficient employee working normal office hours) & it puts people off working for companies. I literally had to push people out of the door in the beginning, under some weird idea that success was measured on their ability to sit behind their desks, rather than being productive.
I do the same. We don't do overtime.
-C- said:
This.
A team of 7 coming in 30 minutes early every day, taking a short lunch & staying 30 minutes late means the business is under resourced to the tune of a 1.2 people, in just one team.
Why would the business pay out for another person when it's just a little bit of O/T for everyone? They are basically having your pants down to make more money.
If managers & staff actually had the balls to stand up to their managers, then the people at the top of the tree might, just might have more of a real reflection of the current state of the business, rather than relying on a carrot being dangled, miles away.
FWIW, my team come in at 8.30 & leave at 4.30. It was endemic in this industry for people working crazy hours (yet not actually achieving any more than an efficient employee working normal office hours) & it puts people off working for companies. I literally had to push people out of the door in the beginning, under some weird idea that success was measured on their ability to sit behind their desks, rather than being productive.
I do the same. We don't do overtime.
That's fine as long as your people aren't involved in detailed, intricate, work where each task may take from 1-2 hours. It's not always possible to just drop a job because your hours are up. Apart from which, on detailed work, it can give great job satisfaction. Other times can be agreed off in lieu if the amount builds up.A team of 7 coming in 30 minutes early every day, taking a short lunch & staying 30 minutes late means the business is under resourced to the tune of a 1.2 people, in just one team.
Why would the business pay out for another person when it's just a little bit of O/T for everyone? They are basically having your pants down to make more money.
If managers & staff actually had the balls to stand up to their managers, then the people at the top of the tree might, just might have more of a real reflection of the current state of the business, rather than relying on a carrot being dangled, miles away.
FWIW, my team come in at 8.30 & leave at 4.30. It was endemic in this industry for people working crazy hours (yet not actually achieving any more than an efficient employee working normal office hours) & it puts people off working for companies. I literally had to push people out of the door in the beginning, under some weird idea that success was measured on their ability to sit behind their desks, rather than being productive.
I do the same. We don't do overtime.
It's often going to depend on the person, the job, the pay rate, and the position within the organisation.
Robertj21a said:
HantsRat said:
Nope in all my previous jobs everyone left at their finish time apart from the rare occasion somethings needed doing. Mixture of public & private sector.
I think if public sector is as in local councils etc then it's standard practice to walk out at the very minute that you reach your contracted hours.If only, might get to see the wife occasionally if that was the standard.
We are salaried and do not have contracted hours. Public sector.
That said, there will be some (rare) weeks where we are working 0830-1730, most of the time 0830-1830/1930.
Very much a sense that we need to get the job done, and that you work until it is complete (or at a reasonable level) before you go home. Our Civil Servants have contracted hours, but most will stick around to support a particular task and we will arrange time off in lieu informally.
That said, there will be some (rare) weeks where we are working 0830-1730, most of the time 0830-1830/1930.
Very much a sense that we need to get the job done, and that you work until it is complete (or at a reasonable level) before you go home. Our Civil Servants have contracted hours, but most will stick around to support a particular task and we will arrange time off in lieu informally.
I work 7.5hrs a day, and can quite often go home, and spend another 3 hours working when it's required, but I can also spend all weekend working on getting something done because it ran over, or prep it ready to go on Monday morning.
I quite often end up working 10+ hours a day.
It's totally dependant on what's required. I do get overtime which tops up salary quite nicely.
On the flip side, I get to work from home whenever I need to, time off for appointments and other stuff is never a problem and I like who I work with.
I quite often end up working 10+ hours a day.
It's totally dependant on what's required. I do get overtime which tops up salary quite nicely.
On the flip side, I get to work from home whenever I need to, time off for appointments and other stuff is never a problem and I like who I work with.
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