Arriving at work early
Discussion
Pothole said:
The Selfish Gene said:
I'm contracted to do 37.5 hours a week, I usually do 50plus. I do this because I have trouble organising myself to do my work in the hours I get paid for and feel guilty about it
FTFY. Your passive/aggressive bull is just that.OP: Many employers feel this is acceptable. Widespread acceptance by the workforce only exacerbates the issue. Has anyone raised at a high enough level to get it addressed?
I have no trouble organising myself, or my team of 150 plus people.
I never feel guilty - because that is not my relationship with my work or my clients.
You guys crack on worrying about your clock watching. I'll continue being successful without the need to worry about if I'm getting paid for 15 minutes work extra.
The Selfish Gene said:
wow
oh my - me thinks you don't understand. I am the employer - I have clients. No brown nosing required. Not even considered.
We do what is necessary to succeed.
What we do is hugely important, and we are rewarded accordingly.
As for being inefficient - we don't all stuff chickens on an assembly line pal x x
If you're the employer then why are you contracting yourself to unrealistic hours?oh my - me thinks you don't understand. I am the employer - I have clients. No brown nosing required. Not even considered.
We do what is necessary to succeed.
What we do is hugely important, and we are rewarded accordingly.
As for being inefficient - we don't all stuff chickens on an assembly line pal x x
If you're a contractor then why aren't you billing the customer the correct amount of hours?
Either way you are depriving yourself of time or income.
Hope things improve for you hun x x x
Let’s set aside the trumpet blowing of some on here and get back to the actual topic. Yes, we are all impressed that you are able to dominate the stairs but it’s not actually helping the OP.
These computers that need 15 minutes to boot up, do they have to be up and running at an exact time? To me, if the employer needs them running at 08:00 and knows that they take 15 minutes to boot then they have to accept that they need employees from 07:45. Sounds like they don’t run shifts so they need to be pay their employees properly for their time and/or sort their rubbish IT out.
These computers that need 15 minutes to boot up, do they have to be up and running at an exact time? To me, if the employer needs them running at 08:00 and knows that they take 15 minutes to boot then they have to accept that they need employees from 07:45. Sounds like they don’t run shifts so they need to be pay their employees properly for their time and/or sort their rubbish IT out.
RTB said:
Depends on the level of the role. If you're sat in a call centre answering phones for 18k a year then processes should be in place to ensure that the infrastructure is in place to allow workers to do their job when work begins, whether this is having systems that can boot in seconds not minutes or paying staff to come in early to start the systems. If you're a manamger with responsibilities to others and are well remunerated then turning up and staying late is part of the job, suck it up.
I get paid for 36.5 hours per week, I probably do north of 50 most weeks. The level of responsibility means that working to rule would not be a responsible thing to do. On the plus side I can do whatever hours I want over the week. We're paid (well) for out- put rather than attendance. If I have a quiet morning then I can go to the gym for a couple of hours, but I could easily be on the phone to an American project team members at 11pm.
But why do you think that is the 'responsible thing to do'? If the company is correctly sized for the work, then there should be no need for this (as a norm). You are diluting your salary and giving your company time for free.I get paid for 36.5 hours per week, I probably do north of 50 most weeks. The level of responsibility means that working to rule would not be a responsible thing to do. On the plus side I can do whatever hours I want over the week. We're paid (well) for out- put rather than attendance. If I have a quiet morning then I can go to the gym for a couple of hours, but I could easily be on the phone to an American project team members at 11pm.
and you think that is perfectly fine, so as a manager you will pass on this bad practice and old fashioned logic.
I value my peoples time, I make sure they go home when they should. I know if I ever need them, they are there.
WonkeyDonkey said:
If you're the employer then why are you contracting yourself to unrealistic hours?
If you're a contractor then why aren't you billing the customer the correct amount of hours?
Either way you are depriving yourself of time or income.
Hope things improve for you hun x x x
Wonky - dude, you're showing yourself up as someone that doesn't understand how it works surely?If you're a contractor then why aren't you billing the customer the correct amount of hours?
Either way you are depriving yourself of time or income.
Hope things improve for you hun x x x
Trust me, I am not depriving myself of anything, my remuneration is perfectly acceptable for 100 hours a week.
that's the point, I'm not paid for my bum being on a seat, I'm paid for my brain, experience and strategy.
Do you think Prof S Hawking was looking at how many hours he was paid for when writing his books?
Or Alan Sugar on his market stall?
Do you really think it works like that? The number on a contract is arbitrary, to be honest I'd be more than happy to work without any contract. I don't need one.
I am given a brief, and then I solve problems over a period of time.
I have no notice periods.
I have that much faith in myself.
All of this petty clock watching s
t - well, I don't know anyone successful that does it.I think to some degree it depends on the role.
I've never been a clock watcher but my role (and employer thankfully) tend to fall into the "do what's needed and neither side takes the piss" category.
That said, I have sympathy for people who may have entry level/lower paid roles where this kind of thing is expected, and there is sometimes an assumption from the employer that they should simply suck it up and be grateful for the job.
I've never been a clock watcher but my role (and employer thankfully) tend to fall into the "do what's needed and neither side takes the piss" category.
That said, I have sympathy for people who may have entry level/lower paid roles where this kind of thing is expected, and there is sometimes an assumption from the employer that they should simply suck it up and be grateful for the job.
I was just thinking about old poor Lewis Hamilton
contracted to do 18 weekends a year, and yet he is always forced to do all that unpaid training in the job.
Poor bd, unorganised. What a loser.
He needs to get onto Mercedes HR department and make sure he is paid.
Should he go for number of leg crutches per Euro? Or number of minutes he is at the gym?
contracted to do 18 weekends a year, and yet he is always forced to do all that unpaid training in the job.
Poor b
d, unorganised. What a loser.He needs to get onto Mercedes HR department and make sure he is paid.
Should he go for number of leg crutches per Euro? Or number of minutes he is at the gym?
The Selfish Gene said:
work is something you do, not somewhere you go.
Assuming these are personal computers, that you do your job on.
If they are something networked important (such as Air Traffic control) and you have to be ready to go exactly on time, then I can see why that rule exists.
Equally though, it's a bit 'white socks' isn't it.
What the problem with being there 15 minutes early? I'm contracted to do 37.5 hours a week, I usually do 50plus. I do this because I'm not some strike happy union dick face and I have respect for my employers and role
Assuming these are personal computers, that you do your job on.
If they are something networked important (such as Air Traffic control) and you have to be ready to go exactly on time, then I can see why that rule exists.
Equally though, it's a bit 'white socks' isn't it.
What the problem with being there 15 minutes early? I'm contracted to do 37.5 hours a week, I usually do 50plus. I do this because I'm not some strike happy union dick face and I have respect for my employers and role
And I bet you also refer to your job as 'the business'. Working >25% extra hours unpaid. You sound like a moron.
I worked in a place that had a log in system where you signed in for the morning, in/out at lunch and then out at the end of the day.
I started at 9 so would arrive at 8.58, turn on my computer and sign in before or just after 9. Sometimes I was late like everyone else using public transport and I couldn’t take the earlier train otherwise I’d be sat outside at 8.15.
I was always being pulled up for being late or taking a little extra than my 1 hour lunch even if I was staying an extra hour most evenings and sometimes even til 10/11PM for special deadlines.
It was a joke and I quit.
I started at 9 so would arrive at 8.58, turn on my computer and sign in before or just after 9. Sometimes I was late like everyone else using public transport and I couldn’t take the earlier train otherwise I’d be sat outside at 8.15.
I was always being pulled up for being late or taking a little extra than my 1 hour lunch even if I was staying an extra hour most evenings and sometimes even til 10/11PM for special deadlines.
It was a joke and I quit.
Selfish Gene - you most definitely have a natural talent as a motivational speaker I reckon.
You could start each session by comparing your achievements to that of Hawkins and Sugar. st why stop there, throw in Trump and Branson while you're at it. Really get your audience pumped!
Wait, what was this thread about again?
You could start each session by comparing your achievements to that of Hawkins and Sugar. s
t why stop there, throw in Trump and Branson while you're at it. Really get your audience pumped! Wait, what was this thread about again?
The Selfish Gene said:
I was just thinking about old poor Lewis Hamilton
contracted to do 18 weekends a year, and yet he is always forced to do all that unpaid training in the job.
Poor bd, unorganised. What a loser.
He needs to get onto Mercedes HR department and make sure he is paid.
Should he go for number of leg crutches per Euro? Or number of minutes he is at the gym?
I know there's a bit of hyperbole in that, but I'd wager that apart from being on more money Lewis Hamilton is on a contract that essentially says "as required".contracted to do 18 weekends a year, and yet he is always forced to do all that unpaid training in the job.
Poor b
d, unorganised. What a loser.He needs to get onto Mercedes HR department and make sure he is paid.
Should he go for number of leg crutches per Euro? Or number of minutes he is at the gym?
That isn't the same situation as someone who's paid to work 8am - 4pm but is expected to work 7.30am to 4.30pm for what may be a minimum wage.
It's a fine line and employers and employees are both guilty of being on the wrong side of it at times.
this has to be a windup surely?
OK - let's try a different way, education.............
So - I got offered a rate of pay, to solve a problem over a period of time. It matters not how many hours a day that I attend a place. As long as I absolutely am there when I need to be to ensure everything is done correctly.
An example could be starting a call with someone in the USA at 9pm UK time - as that's when they are available.
Do you think I should refuse to do that call, because It's past 5pm?
Do you think I should start my day at 2 pm (assuming a 1 hour call) to ensure I don't go over my 8 hours for the day?
What about the call I have at 9am, with India? Should I fail to attend that one?
is light dawning yet?
not everyone has a 9-5 job................hours are irrelevant.
I get paid for what I know, and what results I achieve...............if I did that in 5 hours a week, I'd be paid the same, or 100 hours a week.
If you guys have never experienced that, and are employees to that level, I highly recommend you find a way to have more control over your life.
OK - let's try a different way, education.............
So - I got offered a rate of pay, to solve a problem over a period of time. It matters not how many hours a day that I attend a place. As long as I absolutely am there when I need to be to ensure everything is done correctly.
An example could be starting a call with someone in the USA at 9pm UK time - as that's when they are available.
Do you think I should refuse to do that call, because It's past 5pm?
Do you think I should start my day at 2 pm (assuming a 1 hour call) to ensure I don't go over my 8 hours for the day?
What about the call I have at 9am, with India? Should I fail to attend that one?
is light dawning yet?
not everyone has a 9-5 job................hours are irrelevant.
I get paid for what I know, and what results I achieve...............if I did that in 5 hours a week, I'd be paid the same, or 100 hours a week.
If you guys have never experienced that, and are employees to that level, I highly recommend you find a way to have more control over your life.
The Selfish Gene said:
this is comedy gold!!
How does one teach this hours thing to people that don't understand?
What do you do for a living Castro?
It is different for you though, although you say you are contracted to do 37.5 hours, you are obviously happy that your compensation is adequate that you'll happily work 50+ hours as a norm. Nothing wrong with that.How does one teach this hours thing to people that don't understand?
What do you do for a living Castro?
Where that isn't fine is if you believe your compensation doesn't match your contribution. I.e. you are taken on at a rate to do a role for 37.5 hours and your company expects as a norm for you to do 50+. That is not two way respect, to test that trying asking your employer for a 25% pay rise. Our site managers leave on time as a norm - 6 figure salaries, because that is how they value their time, and how the company values their time.
ozzuk said:
It is different for you though, although you say you are contracted to do 37.5 hours, you are obviously happy that your compensation is adequate that you'll happily work 50+ hours as a norm. Nothing wrong with that.
Where that isn't fine is if you believe your compensation doesn't match your contribution. I.e. you are taken on at a rate to do a role for 37.5 hours and your company expects as a norm for you to do 50+. That is not two way respect, to test that trying asking your employer for a 25% pay rise. Our site managers leave on time as a norm - 6 figure salaries, because that is how they value their time, and how the company values their time.
yeah agreed - but the OP is talking about getting in 15 minutes early to start his job on time.............then I'm being vilified and told I'm not efficient and my 'boss' is taking the piss because I work 50 hours and not 37.5Where that isn't fine is if you believe your compensation doesn't match your contribution. I.e. you are taken on at a rate to do a role for 37.5 hours and your company expects as a norm for you to do 50+. That is not two way respect, to test that trying asking your employer for a 25% pay rise. Our site managers leave on time as a norm - 6 figure salaries, because that is how they value their time, and how the company values their time.
My point is, it doesn't matter what is written on the contract, it's irrelevant if you have the right mind set.
If I ever worked my actual hours in the week of 37.5 - I'd probably still do more than 50 learning something new, or making money doing something else.
you know?
ozzuk said:
But why do you think that is the 'responsible thing to do'? If the company is correctly sized for the work, then there should be no need for this (as a norm). You are diluting your salary and giving your company time for free.
and you think that is perfectly fine, so as a manager you will pass on this bad practice and old fashioned logic.
I value my peoples time, I make sure they go home when they should. I know if I ever need them, they are there.
That's a good question. I think there's an awful lot of people at the middle levels that feel they are more indispensable than they actually are. I'm also guilty of that. If I got run over by a bus tomorrow the company would carry on without a ripple (massive blue chip) and all my work would be absorbed into the various teams within a few weeks. That knowledge of how dispensable most people at my level are probably drives the start early stay late culture. In addition to that there's a sense of responsibility to others, knowing that working to rule will put other people under more pressure or make their jobs more difficult. You're right though, a feeling that that is the right thing to be doing demonstrates a problem with the way workloads and people are managed. and you think that is perfectly fine, so as a manager you will pass on this bad practice and old fashioned logic.
I value my peoples time, I make sure they go home when they should. I know if I ever need them, they are there.
On the other hand I do get an awful lot of flexibility. If I wake up tomorrow and don't feel like going into work then I log in at home and noone cares. If I want to do the school run or go to the gym in the day i can.
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