Where does my career go from here? [IT]
Discussion
slow_poke said:
You have "A 1st Class BSc with Honours Computer Security and Digital Forensics"? And you're arsing about on Problem and Incident Management?
I don't think you know your own value.
Personally, if this was me I'd follow up on that qualification with a Forensics Course/Qualification from SANs - FOR578 or even SEC504I don't think you know your own value.
https://digital-forensics.sans.org/training/course...
83HP said:
Please excuse my ignorance but what do you think about "Big data" or "data science" do you see companies offshoring their databases?
Nobody offshores their databases, they'll migrate to the cloud - And even then they'll still require DBA's (depending on cloud solution) and Big Data Engineers to manipulate that data.Utilise your degree - Whether it be getting a junior position in security or using it to get you into another role that you're interested in.
I only have some GCSE's and a HNC equivalent in IT (from an Apprenticeship) and I'm a 'Senior DevOps Engineer' (although in the real world I'm more of a mid-level DevOps Engineer).
DevSecOps is a thing (believe it or not) - If you can worm you way into a job which offers training/opportunities which will help you land a job in this field you can be looking at up to £1k p/d rates... If not more.
I only have some GCSE's and a HNC equivalent in IT (from an Apprenticeship) and I'm a 'Senior DevOps Engineer' (although in the real world I'm more of a mid-level DevOps Engineer).
DevSecOps is a thing (believe it or not) - If you can worm you way into a job which offers training/opportunities which will help you land a job in this field you can be looking at up to £1k p/d rates... If not more.
83HP said:
Please excuse my ignorance but what do you think about "Big data" or "data science" do you see companies offshoring their databases?
I think big data is just an industry term which means very little. It's really about bringing data from multiple sources and putting it into 1 place. What I tell my business is that Big data is a technical thing. What I encourage them to think about is how to turn data into insight to add value. I think that data management will be a big thing, particularly standards and quality. I think some will be offshored as it's about bringing data together and collating it.The smart part for me is the data science and using it for insight to drive the business and I think these people can be based anywhere as long as they know the business well enough to drive decisionable insight. I am not sure if this will be off shore or on shore, but it takes years of experience to be able to derive and drive the insight.
Techie parts of data will be in the cloud or off shore I think but it's cyclical
83HP said:
Please excuse my ignorance but what do you think about "Big data" or "data science" do you see companies offshoring their databases?
It's kind of been a thing for decades in the supply chain space where people want to see inventory movements across the entire supply chain so that they can make better purchasing decisions and avoid disruptions. The problem with it is that it requires a lot of complexity as you have to touch so many systems and keeping the data clean takes effort. This results projects that costs millions upon millions of dollars and take many years to complete. Very large companies will spring for these projects if they've squeezed every dollar out of every other part of their operations. Smaller companies tend to still have efficiency problems that they're trying to address which are lower hanging fruit.
Unless you're working for a company like IBM with a huge sales and marketing budget, it's very hard to get in the door at the type of businesses that are really willing to spend on a big data project. There is a lot of buzz about it in the trade publications but i'm not sure how that translates into projects.
If you're interested in data (big or small), it would probably be good to learn a commercial database like Oracle or SQL server and get good with SQL. There are plenty of DBA jobs out there and once you're in, you can find your niche.
Companies are off shoring everything. They may locate their servers in a data center in the US and have DBA's and developers in Asia or Eastern Europe. The internet speeds that we have today vs 20 years ago make it seamless. If you're good at what you do, it will not affect you as good people tend to always land on their feet. Off shoring has its own problems and is not for every company. That's a whole other discussion for a different day.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 15th November 17:06
The jiffle king said:
Where I would personally focus less:
- Programming - Going off shore and cheap
I'd have to disagree here, good programming skills are still very much in demand.- Programming - Going off shore and cheap
I'm of the opinion that coding skills are very fundamental to many technology roles, giving an excellent basis to then specialize in areas such as security and enterprise architecture. Putting it another way, I wouldn't employee an enterprise architect or IT security individual that couldn't code.
As for the offshoring part, that is still true for lower value or maintenance only software. High value software is still very much being developed in UK primary and secondary locations.
Olivera said:
I'd have to disagree here, good programming skills are still very much in demand.
I'm of the opinion that coding skills are very fundamental to many technology roles, giving an excellent basis to then specialize in areas such as security and enterprise architecture. Putting it another way, I wouldn't employee an enterprise architect or IT security individual that couldn't code.
As for the offshoring part, that is still true for lower value or maintenance only software. High value software is still very much being developed in UK primary and secondary locations.
Correct.I'm of the opinion that coding skills are very fundamental to many technology roles, giving an excellent basis to then specialize in areas such as security and enterprise architecture. Putting it another way, I wouldn't employee an enterprise architect or IT security individual that couldn't code.
As for the offshoring part, that is still true for lower value or maintenance only software. High value software is still very much being developed in UK primary and secondary locations.
Legacy CORE IT - SAP/Oracle application maintanence etc is offshored
If you can do Cloud Foundry / Openshift / etc and are well skilled in agile methods then you are in a very good spot.
The jiffle king said:
I've been a divisional, international and laterly global CIO for a few years in large companies and might be able to provide some insight on what I think are the trends (probably be as wrong as everyone else)
Many "commodity" jobs have/are moving off shore and some are moving back after poor experiences. There will always be opportunity in a few areas though:
- Enterprise architecture - Really knowing how the business fits together and sharing advice on how the solutions/process/data should fit into that. This is especially true given the nature of apps and the agility demanded by business today
- Security - You don't have to be amazing, just know a framework and measure/communicate results. Money is usually available here even if everything else is closed down
- Business Partnership - Really understanding the business KPI's and strategy and working out how IT can make this happen. This is not a business analyst who looks at the process, but someone who really knows the business and can show how IT and Digital can help improve the top and bottom line. (This really is a forward looking role and many people are just servce managers who do this job)
- PMO - I would love to reduce the governance but PMO is with us to stay
To do most of the above roles, you need a bit of business analysis, a lot of leadership skills and some good breadth of IT knowledge
This is a thread hijack I know but really interesting discussion in here! Many "commodity" jobs have/are moving off shore and some are moving back after poor experiences. There will always be opportunity in a few areas though:
- Enterprise architecture - Really knowing how the business fits together and sharing advice on how the solutions/process/data should fit into that. This is especially true given the nature of apps and the agility demanded by business today
- Security - You don't have to be amazing, just know a framework and measure/communicate results. Money is usually available here even if everything else is closed down
- Business Partnership - Really understanding the business KPI's and strategy and working out how IT can make this happen. This is not a business analyst who looks at the process, but someone who really knows the business and can show how IT and Digital can help improve the top and bottom line. (This really is a forward looking role and many people are just servce managers who do this job)
- PMO - I would love to reduce the governance but PMO is with us to stay
To do most of the above roles, you need a bit of business analysis, a lot of leadership skills and some good breadth of IT knowledge
I’m not an IT person in anyway so a lot of it isn’t applicable but it’s interesting how theres been a few comments around not having to know much about IT to work in security, why is that?
Also, business partner - what sort of job titles would this entail apart from generic business partner as I haven’t seen anything similar? Sounds very much a sort of Strategic level/principle Business Analyst type role, or even potentially a Business architect type position? I’m a BA myself hence me asking as the role you describe sounds extremely appealing.
lewisf182 said:
This is a thread hijack I know but really interesting discussion in here!
I’m not an IT person in anyway so a lot of it isn’t applicable but it’s interesting how theres been a few comments around not having to know much about IT to work in security, why is that?
Also, business partner - what sort of job titles would this entail apart from generic business partner as I haven’t seen anything similar? Sounds very much a sort of Strategic level/principle Business Analyst type role, or even potentially a Business architect type position? I’m a BA myself hence me asking as the role you describe sounds extremely appealing.
Security - There are not enough good security professionals so at this time until companies understand more about the topic, it's easier to get into this part of IT as in many companies it's very basic. You can also make a big difference by doing some simple things such as educating people about USB sticks, phishing vishing etc. Even reading about a basic framework like NIST and getting a company to evaluate itself is a big step forward.I’m not an IT person in anyway so a lot of it isn’t applicable but it’s interesting how theres been a few comments around not having to know much about IT to work in security, why is that?
Also, business partner - what sort of job titles would this entail apart from generic business partner as I haven’t seen anything similar? Sounds very much a sort of Strategic level/principle Business Analyst type role, or even potentially a Business architect type position? I’m a BA myself hence me asking as the role you describe sounds extremely appealing.
Business partner - Its sometimes know as Business Relationship Manager. I see a BP or a BRM as a step on from a business architect as it has a lot more business knowledge and will actively input into business discussion whether it has an IT connection or not. These people will be trusted advisors to the GM/CEO/COO at either corporate or market level and almost be a consultant who knows about IT but also about the business. I have done this role personally and it's a great role
PM me if you want more
The jiffle king said:
I think big data is just an industry term which means very little. It's really about bringing data from multiple sources and putting it into 1 place. What I tell my business is that Big data is a technical thing. What I encourage them to think about is how to turn data into insight to add value. I think that data management will be a big thing, particularly standards and quality. I think some will be offshored as it's about bringing data together and collating it.
The smart part for me is the data science and using it for insight to drive the business and I think these people can be based anywhere as long as they know the business well enough to drive decisionable insight. I am not sure if this will be off shore or on shore, but it takes years of experience to be able to derive and drive the insight.
Techie parts of data will be in the cloud or off shore I think but it's cyclical
The smart part for me is the data science and using it for insight to drive the business and I think these people can be based anywhere as long as they know the business well enough to drive decisionable insight. I am not sure if this will be off shore or on shore, but it takes years of experience to be able to derive and drive the insight.
Techie parts of data will be in the cloud or off shore I think but it's cyclical
alabbasi said:
Companies are off shoring everything. They may locate their servers in a data center in the US and have DBA's and developers in Asia or Eastern Europe. The internet speeds that we have today vs 20 years ago make it seamless. If you're good at what you do, it will not affect you as good people tend to always land on their feet. Off shoring has its own problems and is not for every company. That's a whole other discussion for a different day.
Thank you both of you, do you see testing being offshored more and more now? currently working as a Tester and do question the future of it all Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 15th November 17:06
83HP said:
Thank you both of you, do you see testing being offshored more and more now? currently working as a Tester and do question the future of it all
Automated testing is very much in demand, although this is really just a specialised development job.Manual testing is quite often worthless and hence I expect it to decline.
83HP said:
Thank you both of you, do you see testing being offshored more and more now? currently working as a Tester and do question the future of it all
Testing seems to be a very highly paid and demanding job in the UK. I have several friends who came out of college with me in the late 90's and have made a great career as contract QA consultants in London. I moved to the US in 2000 and took a different role, working for software companies in either consulting, support management and account management. QA does not seem as much in demand and does not pay as well. In at least the places where I've worked over the last 18 years, I've always seen it as a function that's either been done by new hire graduates, interns, support or off shore resources as part of their job function. When I was running a support organization, support would test all resolved bugs reported by customers so that we can make sure that the issue was fixed as they reported it (using a copy of their environment in our labs, their data etc) before we would release a patch or new build. This would be a secondary function of the their job.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 22 November 01:08
The jiffle king said:
Security - There are not enough good security professionals so at this time until companies understand more about the topic, it's easier to get into this part of IT as in many companies it's very basic. You can also make a big difference by doing some simple things such as educating people about USB sticks, phishing vishing etc. Even reading about a basic framework like NIST and getting a company to evaluate itself is a big step forward.
Business partner - Its sometimes know as Business Relationship Manager. I see a BP or a BRM as a step on from a business architect as it has a lot more business knowledge and will actively input into business discussion whether it has an IT connection or not. These people will be trusted advisors to the GM/CEO/COO at either corporate or market level and almost be a consultant who knows about IT but also about the business. I have done this role personally and it's a great role
PM me if you want more
PM’d you btw, cheereBusiness partner - Its sometimes know as Business Relationship Manager. I see a BP or a BRM as a step on from a business architect as it has a lot more business knowledge and will actively input into business discussion whether it has an IT connection or not. These people will be trusted advisors to the GM/CEO/COO at either corporate or market level and almost be a consultant who knows about IT but also about the business. I have done this role personally and it's a great role
PM me if you want more
272BHP said:
Personally I would try and back up your degree with some recent certifications and puff up your CV.
Grab a Security+ first, this should take no longer than a few weeks and the exam can be done at any PearsonVue - self study is the way to go. Then start studying for the CISSP which is a fair bit trickier.
Some people would say all that is a waste of time but if you have security certifications on your CV that are recently dated it tells me that you are a life long learner which is something you certainly have to be in the security field as the sands shift constantly.
Just had a look into this, looks good and certainly food for thought. May well pick up the Udemy course for a tenner and dive in.Grab a Security+ first, this should take no longer than a few weeks and the exam can be done at any PearsonVue - self study is the way to go. Then start studying for the CISSP which is a fair bit trickier.
Some people would say all that is a waste of time but if you have security certifications on your CV that are recently dated it tells me that you are a life long learner which is something you certainly have to be in the security field as the sands shift constantly.
Just to continue my own story:
- I've spoken with the security manager as well as the current analyst (who's been a friend of mine since the start of uni). Due to internal issues (staffing and resources, a couple of vacancies as well as lots of people taking lots of holiday in the run up to the end of the annual leave year) where I work it doesn't look like anything is going to play out there as the security manager is after a bit more than can be given to him at the moment. Crucially, he's after a full on internal transfer (vs say, a secondment or part time work) which in no way would be able to be signed off in the timeframe he's after as we're all under the same department. The work also sounds very hands off which is what I'm trying to get away from if anything. Might be one to circle back to though.
- I've also spoken with a senior manager who has a good grip on the roles where I work. They have suggested Business Analysis as it builds on a lot of the transferable skills I have (stakeholder management, problem solving) and having spoken to one of the BAs it does certainly seem like something I'd be interested in. The functional lead for BA is also a bit more realistic when it comes to availability for me to pursue that so there's potentially something there. A development plan is currently being worked out for that.
alabbasi said:
Testing seems to be a very highly paid and demanding job in the UK. I have several friends who came out of college with me in the late 90's and have made a great career as contract QA consultants in London. I moved to the US in 2000 and took a different role, working for software companies in either consulting, support management and account management. QA does not seem as much in demand and does not pay as well. In at least the places where I've worked over the last 18 years, I've always seen it as a function that's either been done by new hire graduates, interns, support or off shore resources as part of their job function.
When I was running a support organization, support would test all resolved bugs reported by customers so that we can make sure that the issue was fixed as they reported it (using a copy of their environment in our labs, their data etc) before we would release a patch or new build. This would be a secondary function of the their job.
Sorry for the late response, I was stuck in a manual position and now hope to progress into an SDET type role but very few seem to come up I have been practising in my own time writing automated tests and the like but despite a few interviews not really getting anywhere wondering if it's time to give up and look at doing something else When I was running a support organization, support would test all resolved bugs reported by customers so that we can make sure that the issue was fixed as they reported it (using a copy of their environment in our labs, their data etc) before we would release a patch or new build. This would be a secondary function of the their job.
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 22 November 01:08
Been quite a while since I posted here so figured I'd put in an update:
- Since I last posted my ITSM team has gained a new manager and another two analysts so we're very much in a position of strength now. I've also now been at the organisation a little over a year now and am familiar with all our teams/functions as are they with me.
- The "development plan" around Business Analysis still has yet to materialise, I've been to a few induction sessions with the latest crop of BAs and whilst it seems pretty interesting, it does also seem as hands off as my current role which isn't what I'm after. A BA role came up in one of our teams, I spoke with the hiring manager about it a couple of weeks ago and he said he'd feed back my thoughts as no applications had yet to be received. Curiously enough, the listing disappeared the following week and I've heard back from nobody about it so it's not worth the hassle in my opinion if it's like this before I've even got a goal to aim for.
- The security function is changing massively where I work (the previous person in charge has left and it's bringing about a massive reshuffle) and as part of that there's going to be a lot of expansion in the local team where I am. It's looking likely that as part of that they'll be recruiting for a junior analyst once a senior manager has been appointed (I believe they're at selection stage) and I'm very much intending on applying for it as soon as it's posted on our Intranet so fingers crossed.
- I've started on the learning towards CompTIA Security+ and am enjoying re-familiarising myself with everything! Will likely either self-certify or wait and see if it's something I can be put more or less straight into the exam for if I do break into the 'new' security team. It's also made me realise that my degree has done precisely nothing for my career thus far aside from ticking the 'Degree remotely related' box - my first job out of university was gained off the back of my work placement year and not my degree. My second job was gained off the back of my first job!
Thanks to everyone who's provided thoughts/advice, it's much appreciated!
I'll get another update in in a few months then I reckon
- Since I last posted my ITSM team has gained a new manager and another two analysts so we're very much in a position of strength now. I've also now been at the organisation a little over a year now and am familiar with all our teams/functions as are they with me.
- The "development plan" around Business Analysis still has yet to materialise, I've been to a few induction sessions with the latest crop of BAs and whilst it seems pretty interesting, it does also seem as hands off as my current role which isn't what I'm after. A BA role came up in one of our teams, I spoke with the hiring manager about it a couple of weeks ago and he said he'd feed back my thoughts as no applications had yet to be received. Curiously enough, the listing disappeared the following week and I've heard back from nobody about it so it's not worth the hassle in my opinion if it's like this before I've even got a goal to aim for.
- The security function is changing massively where I work (the previous person in charge has left and it's bringing about a massive reshuffle) and as part of that there's going to be a lot of expansion in the local team where I am. It's looking likely that as part of that they'll be recruiting for a junior analyst once a senior manager has been appointed (I believe they're at selection stage) and I'm very much intending on applying for it as soon as it's posted on our Intranet so fingers crossed.
- I've started on the learning towards CompTIA Security+ and am enjoying re-familiarising myself with everything! Will likely either self-certify or wait and see if it's something I can be put more or less straight into the exam for if I do break into the 'new' security team. It's also made me realise that my degree has done precisely nothing for my career thus far aside from ticking the 'Degree remotely related' box - my first job out of university was gained off the back of my work placement year and not my degree. My second job was gained off the back of my first job!
Thanks to everyone who's provided thoughts/advice, it's much appreciated!
I'll get another update in in a few months then I reckon
If you want to use your security qualification (and by that I mean if you are interested enough in it to make a career out of it), do a BA role for 2-3 years at an organisation with a security focus, then go for a security architect role. The combination of understanding service operations, security and what the business wants will set you up very well for that.
If you don't, pick an area you are interested in and focus on that. And remember, you might be sick of helpdesk type roles and want a hands off role because of it, but even hands off roles still require a decent enough understanding of technology, which of course are always on the move. If it's the pace of change you don't like, abandon IT.
If you don't, pick an area you are interested in and focus on that. And remember, you might be sick of helpdesk type roles and want a hands off role because of it, but even hands off roles still require a decent enough understanding of technology, which of course are always on the move. If it's the pace of change you don't like, abandon IT.
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