Generation Z and interviews

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Discussion

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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cat with a hat said:
However, imagine you've just spend £50k on gaining a degree and now a number of the roles you're being offered are paying a few grand more than an admin assistant role. You're also thinking about how the hell you make it onto the property ladder before you're 30.
I imagine people in that situation feel pretty stupid, and in most cases possibly regret their degree choice.

On the other hand, why would a fresh graduate expect more than an experienced admin assistant? They are far less useful to most companies.

craigjm

17,907 posts

199 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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Pericoloso said:
silent ninja said:
I had to google generation Z. You mean millenials smile
Gen Z started in 1995 ,so I think the OP is right as he described his applicants as early 20s.
Generation z are not Millenials. Millenials are Generation Y. Generation Z are post Millenials.

768

13,600 posts

95 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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James_B said:
I don’t recognise that at all, especially not the idea that younger people do things faster. I can knock out a spreadsheet in half an hour that takes our grads days, as they just aren’t up to speed on technology so soon out of university.
Spreadsheets? You need an app grandad.

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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768 said:
Spreadsheets? You need an app grandad.
No, I really don’t. I get all of the functionality that I need from VBA 99% of the time. If I need it productionised, documented, rolled out and supported then ai’ll get one of our developers to do the work but quick and dirty tends to be far, far better than waiting days for someone to do the development work rather than a few tens of minutes of me knocking it up in VBA.

Countdown

39,688 posts

195 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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rog007 said:
Some would say that the ‘old fashioned ‘ approach to hiring may have had its day; your experience kind of backs that view up to a point.

And applying the same approach, regardless of the role and remuneration, has certainly had its day.

A number of organisations are innovating in order to attract the best candidates and engage them throughout the process.

The traditional approach of an advert, shortlisting and interviewing, often with substantial gaps and radio silence in between, will not retain the best candidates throughout the process, as you have found.

The pre-screening mentioned above may have a role to play, and would be enhanced further if candidates are engaged continuously throughout the process, but a process that needs to not have any undue delay.
i think I can see where you're coming from but I'm not sure I entirely agree. Not everybody has the same approach to interviews or the same expectations from Employers (in terms of Pay and career progression). Also, the job market currently being what it is, Employers need to change their package; a good salary and good prospects on their own aren't good enough. Staff expect things like flexible working hours, working from home, and (damn their pesky millennial hides) interesting work.

As long as you're offering the right package, AND it's getting through to the right audience you will get people applying who genuinely want the job, rather than those who are ambivalent about it, as the applicants in the OP seem to be.

Mercury00

4,098 posts

155 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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We complain, but we raised the snowflakes like this.

poing

8,743 posts

199 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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Thats What She Said said:
Of the 6:

- 1 turned up half an hour late with no warning beforehand
- 1 emailed back straight after being offered an interview, and explained they had made a typo on their salary expectation, and in fact wanted more
- 1 person turned up 1 hour late with no warning beforehand
- 1 person, the first question they asked (at the start of the interview) was 'how long would I have to wait before being promoted'
- 1 person emailed on the morning of the interview to say he couldnt come in because he had a cough. Could we do the interview online instead.
The first and third person wouldn't have got past the reception desk. Lateness without a reason and communication is the number one thing I reject people for. That also goes for sales people trying to get me to buy the latest thing.

I've had one rejection try and claim expenses from the company!

craigjm

17,907 posts

199 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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What is your application process from placing the advert and where through to job offer? I am thinking you may need to modernise your process but without knowing exactly what it is from A to B it’s hard to say and advise.

bga

8,134 posts

250 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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James_B said:
I don’t recognise that at all, especially not the idea that younger people do things faster. I can knock out a spreadsheet in half an hour that takes our grads days, as they just aren’t up to speed on technology so soon out of university.
Most of my senior developers and architects are in their 50’s and are sure as hell much more up to date on cutting edge tech than those fresh out of Uni or early in their careers. Most of these guys have been working on it before it was the next big thing.

My current challenge (and it is a nice one to have) is succession planning to ensure we have similarly talented people ready to fill those roles in the future.

James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Sunday 2nd December 2018
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bga said:
Most of my senior developers and architects are in their 50’s and are sure as hell much more up to date on cutting edge tech than those fresh out of Uni or early in their careers. Most of these guys have been working on it before it was the next big thing.

My current challenge (and it is a nice one to have) is succession planning to ensure we have similarly talented people ready to fill those roles in the future.
A lot more graduate entrants seem to exaggerate skills on their CVs nowadays, which makes it hard to evaluate their skills without sitting them down to a test, which is time consuming and expensive.

I had one claim to be expert in Excel whomturned out not to know that you could put functions in cells, not just numbers.

Tim1989

738 posts

133 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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James_B said:
I don’t recognise that at all, especially not the idea that younger people do things faster. I can knock out a spreadsheet in half an hour that takes our grads days, as they just aren’t up to speed on technology so soon out of university.
I would agree that university doesn’t help graduates for the working world any more, and that on some things (where the time served has enabled them to be) those in their 40s and 50s are more skilled.

However, the overall trends that I have seen I stand by, and the vast majority of those over 40 are ill-equipped to deal with change or upskilling, especially when that upskilling doesn’t come with a pay rise.

Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Thats What She Said said:
Excuse the mini rant.

I've been interviewing people this week for a role we have advertised. Of the 6 people I had lined up to come in and interview, not one of them agreed to come in at the proposed time. Each and every one said they couldnt make that day, so we had to change it.no you didn't, you must have been desperate to employ someone or you would have told them they were no longer being considered A minor annoyance, but I'm sure they had their reasons.

Of the 6:

- 1 turned up half an hour late with no warning beforehand I've sent people away with instructions to call HR and reschedule for this length of delay
- 1 emailed back straight after being offered an interview, and explained they had made a typo on their salary expectation, and in fact wanted more Not your problem
- 1 person turned up 1 hour late with no warning beforehand see above
- 1 person, the first question they asked (at the start of the interview) was 'how long would I have to wait before being promoted' goodbye, you can show yourself out
- 1 person emailed on the morning of the interview to say he couldnt come in because he had a cough. Could we do the interview online instead.pathetic, but a good representation of their attitude to sickness absence. Bin them and be thankful for the lucky escape

It's an IT related role working in an office, so not exactly minimum wage shop work.

None of them seem to want to put themselves out in order to get a job. We have to fit in around them. Why they didn't phone and warn us they were going to be late is beyond me. All of them were in their early 20's, so not exactly little kids.

Anyway I'm going to get my slippers on, and go back to shouting at the clouds.
Edited by Pothole on Monday 3rd December 09:15

InitialDave

11,853 posts

118 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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If you think someone not being able to attend an interview the day/time you set is grounds for no longer considering them, you're out of your tree.

Arrange a mutually convenient time like adults, if someone tried that with me I'd consider it a lucky escape.

The fact someone has commitments they can't get out of is no reflection on their suitability for the role. Indeed, a competent person already employed may be pretty damn busy, and you can't just tell an employer "oh, yeah, I'm off next Thursday afternoon" if there's stuff you're needed for.

I've asked for interviews to be at different times due to them being initially set for a period I absolutely had to be at work. The interviewer understood this and did so. Anything else from either of us would've been unprofessional.

Sa Calobra

37,001 posts

210 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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It's been a years since I interviewed early 20's but my experience of early 20's at my work is mixed. ALOT of them dont put themselves forward, volunteer for anything.




Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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InitialDave said:
If you think someone not being able to attend an interview the day/time you set is grounds for no longer considering them, you're out of your tree.

Arrange a mutually convenient time like adults, if someone tried that with me I'd consider it a lucky escape.

The fact someone has commitments they can't get out of is no reflection on their suitability for the role. Indeed, a competent person already employed may be pretty damn busy, and you can't just tell an employer "oh, yeah, I'm off next Thursday afternoon" if there's stuff you're needed for.

I've asked for interviews to be at different times due to them being initially set for a period I absolutely had to be at work. The interviewer understood this and did so. Anything else from either of us would've been unprofessional.
Meh, I've (obviously) been on both sides of this, but as an applicant I'd do my utmost to attend when the interviewer required it. The OP didn't give the impression that attitude had been evident in any of his applicants.

Du1point8

21,604 posts

191 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Tim1989 said:
James_B said:
I don’t recognise that at all, especially not the idea that younger people do things faster. I can knock out a spreadsheet in half an hour that takes our grads days, as they just aren’t up to speed on technology so soon out of university.
I would agree that university doesn’t help graduates for the working world any more, and that on some things (where the time served has enabled them to be) those in their 40s and 50s are more skilled.

However, the overall trends that I have seen I stand by, and the vast majority of those over 40 are ill-equipped to deal with change or upskilling, especially when that upskilling doesn’t come with a pay rise.
Not really true, I see the latest developers coming through and if its their chosen language then not interested.

Had one refuse JS as she was a functional programmer and unless ordered to it by one of the senior staff, she didnt care, didnt help she was crap at her chosen speciality and now stuck doing the mundane crap and the JS that was beneath her is now used for UI testing and was a great success and many want to learn it.

768

13,600 posts

95 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Tim1989 said:
However, the overall trends that I have seen I stand by, and the vast majority of those over 40 are ill-equipped to deal with change or upskilling, especially when that upskilling doesn’t come with a pay rise.
What happens on their 40th birthday? smile

I haven't seen any of that, mostly because I don't see much upskilling required. I have seen people not want to move to higher level languages, but I'm not sure I could blame anyone for that. Aren't the Cobol grey heads still kicking around on good money?

TonyRPH

12,963 posts

167 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Orchid1 said:
Not saying my generation are perfect but you are right about the older generation in the workplace. They are the ones that are always off with stress/sick kids/sick family members sometimes without even calling in as they think that due to their age it's above them.

I sit next to a woman in my work who is in her 50's and is constantly going on about how she has too much work to do and not enough time to do it. It doesn't seem to stop her sitting on facebook for most of the day or chatting nonsense to people or doing a bit of online shopping or renewing her mortgage online like she did the other week. She also told the boss the other day she had to leave work early for a medical appointment however admitted to the rest of us that she had actually got a groupon voucher for dermabraision and was away to use it :s.
Conversely, my wife is late 50's and worked in a busy office / call centre type role.

She was constantly having to cover for the 20 and 30 somethings that were off sick with 'stress' or other random ailments.

Therefore, I suspect that age has little to do with it.

Additionally, she is willing to embrace new skills, and took on many new challenges during her 12 years in her last role.

Again, I suspect age has little to do with it. It's probably a personality trait.

You get shirkers in their 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's.....



James_B

12,642 posts

256 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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Tim1989 said:
I would agree that university doesn’t help graduates for the working world any more, and that on some things (where the time served has enabled them to be) those in their 40s and 50s are more skilled.

However, the overall trends that I have seen I stand by, and the vast majority of those over 40 are ill-equipped to deal with change or upskilling, especially when that upskilling doesn’t come with a pay rise.
It’s perhaps a function of what business you are in.

I’ve been in jobs when I was much younger where the older people were clock watchers, or despised management, or were unwilling to change but I’ve never seen it in a proper professional environment. My friends who are venture capitalists, professional scientists, who run a trading floor or are consultants in medicine seem extremely keen to keep at the forefront of technology and research.

craigjm

17,907 posts

199 months

Monday 3rd December 2018
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James_B said:
It’s perhaps a function of what business you are in.

I’ve been in jobs when I was much younger where the older people were clock watchers, or despised management, or were unwilling to change but I’ve never seen it in a proper professional environment. My friends who are venture capitalists, professional scientists, who run a trading floor or are consultants in medicine seem extremely keen to keep at the forefront of technology and research.
Agree with this