Compensation Offer following grievance at work
Discussion
edc said:
Given that she resigned follow the grievance process, ensure you keep an audit trail. Your claim if any will be constructive dismissal. Don't under estimate how difficult these are from a time and emotional perspective from the worker/employee perspective.
My battle lasted over a year before they finally folded. Its quite harrowing, especially the prospect of going to full trial.We sat with the judge agreeing hearing dates and witness's at the end of which they said they were prepared to enter into mediation.
The tribunal service in London provide a mediator who is FOC although you can pay privately. Little point according to my Barrister.
We had them pretty much over a barrel.
The mediation lasted a full day and only really gathered pace with 20 minutes to go when we struck a deal.
What they first offered and what i agreed to was 200% apart. They also got landed with all my costs.
I'd not want to do it again but then i knew they didnt want it going public
edc said:
Given that she resigned follow the grievance process, ensure you keep an audit trail. Your claim if any will be constructive dismissal. Don't under estimate how difficult these are from a time and emotional perspective from the worker/employee perspective.
She handed in her grievance letter and resignation at the same time, citing that the grievances made her position untenable. Everything has been in writing and copied!
The emotional effect on my wife has pretty much been resolved once she left. She just sees it as a process now which i think is for the best.
FocusRS3 said:
My battle lasted over a year before they finally folded. Its quite harrowing, especially the prospect of going to full trial.
We sat with the judge agreeing hearing dates and witness's at the end of which they said they were prepared to enter into mediation.
The tribunal service in London provide a mediator who is FOC although you can pay privately. Little point according to my Barrister.
We had them pretty much over a barrel.
The mediation lasted a full day and only really gathered pace with 20 minutes to go when we struck a deal.
What they first offered and what i agreed to was 200% apart. They also got landed with all my costs.
I'd not want to do it again but then i knew they didnt want it going public
To be fair, based on their previous performances, the company in question are very much "path of least resistance" when it comes to anything. It's a case of "throw some money at it to make it go away". We sat with the judge agreeing hearing dates and witness's at the end of which they said they were prepared to enter into mediation.
The tribunal service in London provide a mediator who is FOC although you can pay privately. Little point according to my Barrister.
We had them pretty much over a barrel.
The mediation lasted a full day and only really gathered pace with 20 minutes to go when we struck a deal.
What they first offered and what i agreed to was 200% apart. They also got landed with all my costs.
I'd not want to do it again but then i knew they didnt want it going public
Previously when they were going through a sticky patch, the owner moved the finance team to another building so he didn't have to be reminded of what was going on...
They are also very much a one person band, with that person having a very thin skin. Reputation is VERY important to them (think big fish in a small pond) so i can't see them wanting any dirty linen being aired to all and sundry.
Interesting to see the increase in what was offered and what was accepted though!
Jasandjules said:
I would suggest you see someone who has been recommended by a friend/family/whatever.
Just a random is not ideal.
Searched online for most highly recommended employment law solicitors in the area before i went in. Just a random is not ideal.
To be honest, none of my friends or family have been in such a situation - which is both good and bad!
lenny007 said:
To be fair, based on their previous performances, the company in question are very much "path of least resistance" when it comes to anything. It's a case of "throw some money at it to make it go away".
Previously when they were going through a sticky patch, the owner moved the finance team to another building so he didn't have to be reminded of what was going on...
They are also very much a one person band, with that person having a very thin skin. Reputation is VERY important to them (think big fish in a small pond) so i can't see them wanting any dirty linen being aired to all and sundry.
Interesting to see the increase in what was offered and what was accepted though!
My case would have blown the doors off but there is always risk.Previously when they were going through a sticky patch, the owner moved the finance team to another building so he didn't have to be reminded of what was going on...
They are also very much a one person band, with that person having a very thin skin. Reputation is VERY important to them (think big fish in a small pond) so i can't see them wanting any dirty linen being aired to all and sundry.
Interesting to see the increase in what was offered and what was accepted though!
Risk of the judge not liking me, one of my witnesses, having a bad day, knowing someone on the other side etc etc . Plus i'd likely have worn the legal costs which would of likely been another 100k so net net you take the cash and run.
I got what i wanted and they lost.......we move on.
You have nothing to lose by trying and from what you say they are likely to offer more money to make it go away.
Like me , your wife will be asked to sign an NDA on settlement too
FocusRS3 said:
My case would have blown the doors off but there is always risk.
Risk of the judge not liking me, one of my witnesses, having a bad day, knowing someone on the other side etc etc . Plus i'd likely have worn the legal costs which would of likely been another 100k so net net you take the cash and run.
I got what i wanted and they lost.......we move on.
You have nothing to lose by trying and from what you say they are likely to offer more money to make it go away.
Like me , your wife will be asked to sign an NDA on settlement too
Quick question and probably a bizarre one but there you go - you mentioned the NDA. Were you compensated for signing the NDA? Or was it a case of you'll get X if you sign and nothing if you don't?Risk of the judge not liking me, one of my witnesses, having a bad day, knowing someone on the other side etc etc . Plus i'd likely have worn the legal costs which would of likely been another 100k so net net you take the cash and run.
I got what i wanted and they lost.......we move on.
You have nothing to lose by trying and from what you say they are likely to offer more money to make it go away.
Like me , your wife will be asked to sign an NDA on settlement too
Just seems to me - probably rather simplistically - that if a settlement agreement is made to compensate you for grievances raised that's one thing. If they want your silence on the matter, do they pay extra?
lenny007 said:
Quick question and probably a bizarre one but there you go - you mentioned the NDA. Were you compensated for signing the NDA? Or was it a case of you'll get X if you sign and nothing if you don't?
Just seems to me - probably rather simplistically - that if a settlement agreement is made to compensate you for grievances raised that's one thing. If they want your silence on the matter, do they pay extra?
An NDA is the norm for anyone that enters into a compromise agreement.Just seems to me - probably rather simplistically - that if a settlement agreement is made to compensate you for grievances raised that's one thing. If they want your silence on the matter, do they pay extra?
The reason they pay you is so you keep stum by signing the NDA.
Both sides sign of course.
At the time of settling its also normal for you to agree the wording of a reference for future employment
FocusRS3 said:
An NDA is the norm for anyone that enters into a compromise agreement.
The reason they pay you is so you keep stum by signing the NDA.
Both sides sign of course.
At the time of settling its also normal for you to agree the wording of a reference for future employment
Thank you for taking the time to reply, it really is a big help. I know you can find stuff online but it's usually general information and not situation specific so your input in this has been invaluable (as has that of almost everyone who has replied on this thread).The reason they pay you is so you keep stum by signing the NDA.
Both sides sign of course.
At the time of settling its also normal for you to agree the wording of a reference for future employment
Interesting development today.
The HR person has reponded today to my wife and the crux of the mail is
Settlement relates to recent grievance - procedure on hold whilst awaiting confirmation of our decision.
Figure doesn't require breakdown - simply an amount to bring to close outstanding issues.
Please confirm if you accept this offer.
As per the grievance procedure, surely we need to confirm the findings of the grievance before we can accept anything? If we disagree, we would have to appeal the result prior to contacting ACAS - not sure we can do this is we haven't had the results of the grievance?
Bit confused at the minute!
The HR person has reponded today to my wife and the crux of the mail is
Settlement relates to recent grievance - procedure on hold whilst awaiting confirmation of our decision.
Figure doesn't require breakdown - simply an amount to bring to close outstanding issues.
Please confirm if you accept this offer.
As per the grievance procedure, surely we need to confirm the findings of the grievance before we can accept anything? If we disagree, we would have to appeal the result prior to contacting ACAS - not sure we can do this is we haven't had the results of the grievance?
Bit confused at the minute!
The offer is in lieu of the continuation of the grievance process.
Choice is between the two - settlement or continue with grievance process and be informed of outcome as and when.
The settlement amount will be based on solely what the company are prepared to pay to make the whole thing go away.
Choice is between the two - settlement or continue with grievance process and be informed of outcome as and when.
The settlement amount will be based on solely what the company are prepared to pay to make the whole thing go away.
lenny007 said:
Interesting development today.
The HR person has reponded today to my wife and the crux of the mail is
Settlement relates to recent grievance - procedure on hold whilst awaiting confirmation of our decision.
Figure doesn't require breakdown - simply an amount to bring to close outstanding issues.
Please confirm if you accept this offer.
As per the grievance procedure, surely we need to confirm the findings of the grievance before we can accept anything? If we disagree, we would have to appeal the result prior to contacting ACAS - not sure we can do this is we haven't had the results of the grievance?
Bit confused at the minute!
Ok- If this went all the way to an ET where they were up for the fight then they would disclose all their findings in documentation prior to the hearing or even if they were taking on a fight now they would tell you they intend to fight your claim and likely detail 'their' findings.The HR person has reponded today to my wife and the crux of the mail is
Settlement relates to recent grievance - procedure on hold whilst awaiting confirmation of our decision.
Figure doesn't require breakdown - simply an amount to bring to close outstanding issues.
Please confirm if you accept this offer.
As per the grievance procedure, surely we need to confirm the findings of the grievance before we can accept anything? If we disagree, we would have to appeal the result prior to contacting ACAS - not sure we can do this is we haven't had the results of the grievance?
Bit confused at the minute!
From what you say here they are not wanting to go down that road as they are trying to negotiate a settlement with you.
The line of 'procedure on hold whilst awaiting your decision' is likely to be just jargon so it appears they have taken your claim seriously and following some sort of procedure which i doubt there will be.
You don't have to be concerned with any of this. They have opened lines for negotiation and are probably expecting you to make a counter.
If i were you i'd now go to a solicitor and get the solicitor to take over the negotiations and to include them paying his fees.
Only then will you know you have secured the best deal, possible as he will know how far to push things
Edited by FocusRS3 on Friday 5th April 14:29
Ok, so the position we're in is that the company have offered a figure to basically make us go away prior to completing the grievance procedure?
If we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
If we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
Do talk to an employment lawyer.
At this stage, and guessing somewhat as we don't know the amount of the payoff, but they will know that by your wife settling they will not have to spend £x in management time and £y in lawyer's fees on any future action.
If x+y = more than their offer to your wife (and it will be), then they are happy - irrespective of their view of any wrongdoing. They will not admit any wrongdoing in writing, everything will be about full and final settlement.
Horribly, horribly, stressful, whatever happens next. I wish you both the best of luck :-)
At this stage, and guessing somewhat as we don't know the amount of the payoff, but they will know that by your wife settling they will not have to spend £x in management time and £y in lawyer's fees on any future action.
If x+y = more than their offer to your wife (and it will be), then they are happy - irrespective of their view of any wrongdoing. They will not admit any wrongdoing in writing, everything will be about full and final settlement.
Horribly, horribly, stressful, whatever happens next. I wish you both the best of luck :-)
lenny007 said:
Ok, so the position we're in is that the company have offered a figure to basically make us go away prior to completing the grievance procedure?
If we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
Lenny i have sent you a PMIf we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
lenny007 said:
Quick question and probably a bizarre one but there you go - you mentioned the NDA. Were you compensated for signing the NDA? Or was it a case of you'll get X if you sign and nothing if you don't?
Just seems to me - probably rather simplistically - that if a settlement agreement is made to compensate you for grievances raised that's one thing. If they want your silence on the matter, do they pay extra?
The "NDA" is simply the entire Settlement Agreement ("SA") which has standard terms (there are templates we can download for example) - these terms will require you to keep the terms of the agreement secret and to sign away your rights to bring claims in Tribunal, among other things. This will need to be signed off by a lawyer and there should be a sum included for that (say £400 plus VAT) which is payable directly to your representative. Just seems to me - probably rather simplistically - that if a settlement agreement is made to compensate you for grievances raised that's one thing. If they want your silence on the matter, do they pay extra?
The overall sum in the SA which you receive is what you need to look at - are you happy to take that amount to go away, NOT what the sum is for - do also ensure the payment is tax efficient as well, there are a couple of terms which can be used and ways to do so, your representative should be able to clarify this.
lenny007 said:
Ok, so the position we're in is that the company have offered a figure to basically make us go away prior to completing the grievance procedure?
If we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
Lenny , I may be wrong but the fact they have already made an offer tells me they don’t want to go through the whole grievance procedure unless of course you are demanding a ridiculous amount of money .If we take it, great for them and carry on.
If we don't they'll complete the grievance procedure as required.
I might not be an employment solicitor but it suggests to me that by making the offer they must believe that there is a case to answer in her grievance(s) or else they would have told us to sod off!
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
Cases vary and unless you have something so terrible on them that they can’t risk getting out as it will cause serious damage to their reputation then there will be a likely cap on what an ET will award.
A solicitor will know an expected award amount depending on your case.
Generally speaking and in order for you to keep this out of a tribunal hearing a company will pay more to put it all to an end and save themselves al the work and internal hassle that goes with it.
They will NOT want to go down the road of an ET trust me hence opening up lines of negotiation.
Additionally what they have offered will be a starting amount . They will be awaiting a counter and will pay more for it to go away.
As I said an employment solicitor will best advise you and it’s well worth getting one to take over the negotiations or at least tell you how to respond .
Good luck
lenny007 said:
If we turn it down (which we most likely will), it'll be interesting to see if there is another offer made, in lieu of completing the process.
Don't underestimate the stress of continuing with the process and the effect it will have on you both - Even with a favorable result...Get some good legal advice.
FocusRS3 said:
They will NOT want to go down the road of an ET trust me hence opening up lines of negotiation.
Some do, some don't. I have instructions from a Respondent firm to fight to the death, money no object. Not all cave in, though most do. Some however wish to make an example of employees to prevent others throwing spurious claims (not saying the OP has a spurious claim at all here to be clear).They may also have a commercial view and a limit they will pay, you can push them of course and see where it gets to.
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