A question about graduate pay and **** taking

[Countdown]

Going back to the OP - the starting salary for NQT is about £22k and for Doctors it's £24k, so it's broadly in line with other professional roles. And, as has been said, the salary will jump when he passes his exams.

[Vaud]

Countdown said:

up to £4000/day for a partner.

Not in auditing, but I was working with one of our "stars" - tech/solution genius and the client loved him. He had a global leadership role but the client REALLY wanted him to lead delivery... which he can do but he is in demand everywhere.

His normal charge out was about £3k/day. I told the client we could swing him part time (2 weeks/month), but as he would be travelling needed enhanced expenses (1st class - bear in mind this was Singapore and the guy lives in the US) and it was £10k/day... thinking that would put them off...

Client said yes without hesitation. I then had to explain to the guy what I had sold him out at... and he said, ok, but I want my wife to come as well... so I had go back to the client and get the extra first class flights... again, client didn't even blink.

I later realised that they had been using McKinsey for high level advice beforehand, so it probably felt like good value.

[theguvernor15]

Countdown said:

I think the charge-out rate is tiered depending on whether the person is junior/senior/manager/Director/partner.

IIRC we pay one of the Big 4 £130/day for a Junior, up to £4000/day for a partner.

The difference in rates is bonkers, i've spoken to quote a few & whilst not big 4, they're still huge companies.
The basis seems to be.... juniors do the main leg work, it's then passed to the manager, who checks the work is correct, it's then passed to the partner who again checks it again, signs it off, sometimes offers some specialist advise, but 9/10 it's fairly straightforward & out the door it goes.

[Hoofy]

Pit Pony said:

Leads to ACA chartered status.
Now is it just me or is £22k a year a proper pistake?

No. He's not qualified yet.

[Sheepshanks]

blueg33 said:

I got my 2/2 in 1987. I was pretty surprised last week at an interview when I was asked why only a 2/2? I created £100m of new assets last year with a £20m profit so who gives a flying fk what degree I have!

He didn't ask about the MBA which is bizarre as the role was a Group MD for a business with 5000 employees.

Didn't get the job

Our CEO just made his degree up.

[Sheepshanks]

theguvernor15 said:

Your lad kind of needs to see his degree (whilst having one), is irrelevant in the field of finance, much like if he went from say finance to medicine/science, they'd see his degree as fairly irrelevant as it doesn't have much use in that field.

It could be very useful if he ended up in a senior position with a company that did stuff with chemicals.

[ChocolateFrog]

Sounds better than Engineering. I graduated with a 1st in 2007 and my first salary was £18k. Looked at the senior chartered engineers who were on maybe £45k and decided it wasn't for me. Joined the Army, £25k in training, think its £27k now and low to mid 40's after 3 years. Don't even have to go to Afghanistan these days.

Edited to add that £18k went upto 19k in the second year, which is the point I tapped out.

[Olivera]

Countdown said:

theguvernor15 said:

Apparently it's all down the charge out rates, if someones ACA qualified, they can charge them our for considerably more, as they essentially become a 'manager' overnight.

Edited by theguvernor15 on Friday 28th June 13:25

I think the charge-out rate is tiered depending on whether the person is junior/senior/manager/Director/partner.

IIRC we pay one of the Big 4 £130/day for a Junior, up to £4000/day for a partner.

Meh, who cares about chargeout rates when as an employee you are getting a tiny fraction of it?

Much better to contract and see it in your own pocket.

[Vaud]

Much better to make partner and have 700k+ a year

[Countdown]

Olivera said:

Meh, who cares about chargeout rates when as an employee you are getting a tiny fraction of it?

Much better to contract and see it in your own pocket.

I think a Partner for one of the Big 4 would get from £500K upwards per annum. I’d be happy with that fraction

[Vaud]

Countdown said:

I think a Partner for one of the Big 4 would get from £500K upwards per annum. I’d be happy with that fraction

"Average pay per partner at the Big Four accounting firm was £519,000 in the year to September 30. The biggest earners were at Deloitte this year, with average pay per partner of £865,000. EY partners received £677,000, while PwC's partners earned £652,000" (2017)

[Kendrik]

The starting salary of 22k is about right - all graduates will start on the same with regional variations (it’ll be nearer 30k) and obviously a bit of variation between firms (but not much).

It’ll be in the 40s once qualified after 3 years and probably 70s another 3/4 years after if he stays in the profession and progresses.

His degree will only get you in the door and is irrelevant to his starting pay and his progression. There will be a structured pay scale for the first few years and he’ll progress based on his work place contribution only (like most jobs).

ACA is a very highly respected qualification and with big 4 training he will not struggle for work and there are a lot of things he can do if he doesn’t enjoy audit which certainly isn’t for everyone.

I am a partner in a big 4 firm so happy to answer other questions.

[Wacky Racer]

Integroo said:

I would agree it is low if he is living and working in central London, but in the regions as a trainee it is what one might expect. I started as a trainee solicitor in Scotland on £17k. It will jump up quickly once he qualifies, and by a large amount if he qualifies and moves to London.

Which will be swallowed up by London living expenses.

[Sa Calobra]

Pit Pony said:

So my son got a 1st Masters in Chemistry from York.
4 years ago.
He worked in Cancer drug discovery, and after 2 years took voluntary redundancy and did teacher training at Birmingham.
So during his NQT year he decided that he hated being a chemistry teacher.
So he's changing direction again. He applied and has been successful with one of the big accountancy firms. You know the one that begins with P, and gets fined occasionally and fks up the Oscars. Job is a trainee in the Assurance function (auditing?)
Leads to ACA chartered status.
Now is it just me or is £22k a year a proper pistake?
I know there is the dangling of carrot, and all that, but to me it just says we actually are going to treat you like st.
I've tried to be encouraging, but if he was me, I'd be looking elsewhere.
I live in the here and now and not the future and occasional regret it.

He didn't have to take the job.

In part it's about candidate supply and demand. How many accountancy degree candidates would there be that for role?

It's not that companies fault that your son is somewhat flip-flop with his career choices. Harsh but why is it their fault?

Edited by Sa Calobra on Saturday 29th June 10:22

[POORCARDEALER]

Strange how graduates often end up in careers nothing like their degrees....relation of mine has a PHD in genetics and works in computing

[Integroo]

Wacky Racer said:

Which will be swallowed up by London living expenses.

Not really, I am miles better off in London than I was in Scotland.

[Pit Pony]

POORCARDEALER said:

Strange how graduates often end up in careers nothing like their degrees....relation of mine has a PHD in genetics and works in computing

Yeah. Don't get it myself. Nephew has a degree in community drama and is an estate agent.
Sister has a PHD in Soil Science and works in exam quality assurance.
Daughter has an MPharm and sells drugs. (To be fair most of her customers get their methadone free)

[P1ato]

I qualified in the mid-90s. I did an English degree before joining the firm your son's had an offer from. ACA gave me some form of business training. Salary increased 30%+ after each set of exams were passed. As soon as I qualified (aged 23) I moved into industry on >5x my graduate salary.

Your son's chemistry degree could prove useful if he wants to work in the pharma or medical sectors later on.

Having the qualification doesn't limit you to FD roles in the future.

Edited by P1ato on Monday 1st July 16:40

[theguvernor15]

OP,

I asked my OH last night about this again, i did get it a bit wrong.

She said when she got her initial training contract she was on an apprentice wage, so significantly lower than what your son is being offered/what i thought she'd been paid.
Her salary then went up based on which exams she'd passed/how long she'd been with the company.

I mentioned about your son having a previous degree & her opinion was that it's kind of irrelevant at the level he's going in at.
(As someone has said it maybe useful once he was qualified if for instance he wanted to work with Chemical companies etc).

[CustardOnChips]

Pit Pony said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

A Desmond from Coventry Polytechnic in Production Engineering with manufacturing systems and year in industry, accreditted by IProdE (now part of IET)
Given my own woeful A level grades which was just enough to start a HND, my kids are clearly harder working and cleverer.
I think the main difference between accountancy and engineering, is that becoming chartered in Engineering has very little impact in your pay.
To be fair, now I run a LTD company, i feel that becoming an accountant would have been a better career.

It might have been. However, consider that Accountancy is considered to be one of the areas most easily automated in the future. What career opportunities will exist if accounting is fully digital and autonomous.