Contractors: IR35 & general discussion
Discussion
Countdown said:
I'm guessing but I'm aware that some part of Government are having problems because they're not geared up for paperless working or remote working. For example if they have a Customer Service Centre they've not been able to route calls to peoples homes in order for them to answer them, or the person answering the phone cant route the inbound call to the right Department (because there's nobody there)
Similarly a lot of Govt Bureaucracy still requires wet signatures and hard copy documents to be posted in. The problem is that offices in london are closed and there will be a skeleton staff who will take in mail but not necessarily sort it/scan it/email it to the right department.
It’s not the 1970s. Most of the civil service is pretty advanced digitally. Read up on GDS. Similarly a lot of Govt Bureaucracy still requires wet signatures and hard copy documents to be posted in. The problem is that offices in london are closed and there will be a skeleton staff who will take in mail but not necessarily sort it/scan it/email it to the right department.
wormus said:
ITP said:
I’m waiting for a security clearance.
Problem is government uksv office. They have decided they can’t possibly go to work due to Covid, so are not accepting any applications. Who knows when they will actually work again, despite being on full pay of course.
Everyone else, we are constantly told, should be going back to work, and are. They need to practice what they preach themselves and get the f@&k back to work themselves....
So the government have deliberately left out ltd company directors from any reasonable amount of furlough, knowing how all companies are set up. Never mind, I dont need it, as I sourced my own contract back in May. I can earn my own money rather than sucking out taxpayers money sat in my garden all summer, allowing me to spend money in the local buisness that so need it.
But no, the government themselves are stopping me earning money because they refuse to go back to work to even send out and process forms whilst insisting everyone else gets back to work.
You could make it up, total f@&kwits., the lot of them.
How much out of 10 for that rant!
Most civil servants have haven’t stopped working throughout lockdown. Company directors my arse. More like one man band employees.Problem is government uksv office. They have decided they can’t possibly go to work due to Covid, so are not accepting any applications. Who knows when they will actually work again, despite being on full pay of course.
Everyone else, we are constantly told, should be going back to work, and are. They need to practice what they preach themselves and get the f@&k back to work themselves....
So the government have deliberately left out ltd company directors from any reasonable amount of furlough, knowing how all companies are set up. Never mind, I dont need it, as I sourced my own contract back in May. I can earn my own money rather than sucking out taxpayers money sat in my garden all summer, allowing me to spend money in the local buisness that so need it.
But no, the government themselves are stopping me earning money because they refuse to go back to work to even send out and process forms whilst insisting everyone else gets back to work.
You could make it up, total f@&kwits., the lot of them.
How much out of 10 for that rant!
Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
ITP said:
Well, it’s actually a fact that the uksv have decided to stop processing applications due to covid.. Unless you know better of course.....
Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
As if anyone cares. What a tit.Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
wormus said:
Countdown said:
I'm guessing but I'm aware that some part of Government are having problems because they're not geared up for paperless working or remote working. For example if they have a Customer Service Centre they've not been able to route calls to peoples homes in order for them to answer them, or the person answering the phone cant route the inbound call to the right Department (because there's nobody there)
Similarly a lot of Govt Bureaucracy still requires wet signatures and hard copy documents to be posted in. The problem is that offices in london are closed and there will be a skeleton staff who will take in mail but not necessarily sort it/scan it/email it to the right department.
It’s not the 1970s. Most of the civil service is pretty advanced digitally. Read up on GDS. Similarly a lot of Govt Bureaucracy still requires wet signatures and hard copy documents to be posted in. The problem is that offices in london are closed and there will be a skeleton staff who will take in mail but not necessarily sort it/scan it/email it to the right department.
wormus said:
ITP said:
Well, it’s actually a fact that the uksv have decided to stop processing applications due to covid.. Unless you know better of course.....
Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
As if anyone cares. What a tit.Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
ITP said:
wormus said:
ITP said:
Well, it’s actually a fact that the uksv have decided to stop processing applications due to covid.. Unless you know better of course.....
Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
As if anyone cares. What a tit.Even though there are government ministers on tv everyday telling everyone else to get back to work to save the economy.
Anyway, it’s getting mildly annoying for me, I may have to sell one of my cars, maybe the Maserati, or even one of my houses. At least I’ll get a better price for one of those thanks to rishi’s stamp duty holiday. Shudder to think, I may even have to take a staff job soon. Actually no, that would be too much. Maybe I’ll just retire and pay f all tax instead.
It’s was a ridiculous comment indeed. Designed to elicit a response such that they could enter into a confrontation. I’ve nothing against permies, but some of them get jealous and snipey. Bit sad really.
Well, I've just gone permy again after contracting through lockdown (only work I could find, but grateful to have some).
It requires a massive shift in mindset and lifestyle, and I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with it yet, but I'll see how it plays out and reassess post April '21.
I really miss the money and my future is now looking quite different to how I imagined it this time a year ago.
I'm working way less hours though and I'm sleeping very well. Those are probably the only 2 plus points I can think of right now, but they are pretty good ones I suppose.
I hope you're all getting on okay in the contract world. Uncertain times, that's for sure, but don't let some of the conny haters get to you, I have a feeling they will be just as bitter and sour when industries are forced to find ways to keep contractors genuinely outside IR35 as they still have a big demand for a flexible workforce.
It requires a massive shift in mindset and lifestyle, and I'm not sure I'm completely comfortable with it yet, but I'll see how it plays out and reassess post April '21.
I really miss the money and my future is now looking quite different to how I imagined it this time a year ago.
I'm working way less hours though and I'm sleeping very well. Those are probably the only 2 plus points I can think of right now, but they are pretty good ones I suppose.
I hope you're all getting on okay in the contract world. Uncertain times, that's for sure, but don't let some of the conny haters get to you, I have a feeling they will be just as bitter and sour when industries are forced to find ways to keep contractors genuinely outside IR35 as they still have a big demand for a flexible workforce.
Murph7355 said:
In theory that's been the case since the outset.
In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
It's far, far easier for large companies to just invoke a PSC blanket ban, but still engage (what are effectively still) contractors via umbrella companies.In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
This approach is far less onerous (no IR35 status assessments/reviews/appeals/disputes) and there is absolutely no liability for any unpaid taxes or fines.
Win-win for the large corporates, hence in my field (financial services) this is exactly what the big players have done.
Olivera said:
Murph7355 said:
In theory that's been the case since the outset.
In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
It's far, far easier for large companies to just invoke a PSC blanket ban, but still engage (what are effectively still) contractors via umbrella companies.In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
This approach is far less onerous (no IR35 status assessments/reviews/appeals/disputes) and there is absolutely no liability for any unpaid taxes or fines.
Win-win for the large corporates, hence in my field (financial services) this is exactly what the big players have done.
So not a blanket "assessment" technically...but amounts to the same thing.
I suspect it will come back to bite some of them - it will take time, but it will happen.
The umbrella engagements will become the new norm and despite the lose lose outcome (for contractors and the revenue) we will just have to suck it up more and more.
I was offered such a role back in March but it came apart at the seams a little. I made it clear from the beginning that I wasn’t accepting such an engagement if they expected me to reduce my rate to pay the employers NI. Guess what - after2 months of protracted onboarding I found out that they were expecting me to pay it. So I walked. They came back. Offered me a fixed term contract ie my contract rate multiplied by 240 days plus holidays plus pension plus sick leave etc etc. Tax paid via their payroll. It’s quite nice not having the ball ache of company paperwork etc for now.
I was offered such a role back in March but it came apart at the seams a little. I made it clear from the beginning that I wasn’t accepting such an engagement if they expected me to reduce my rate to pay the employers NI. Guess what - after2 months of protracted onboarding I found out that they were expecting me to pay it. So I walked. They came back. Offered me a fixed term contract ie my contract rate multiplied by 240 days plus holidays plus pension plus sick leave etc etc. Tax paid via their payroll. It’s quite nice not having the ball ache of company paperwork etc for now.
Olivera said:
Murph7355 said:
In theory that's been the case since the outset.
In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
It's far, far easier for large companies to just invoke a PSC blanket ban, but still engage (what are effectively still) contractors via umbrella companies.In practice, what is there to stop companies doing this? (Nothing).
This approach is far less onerous (no IR35 status assessments/reviews/appeals/disputes) and there is absolutely no liability for any unpaid taxes or fines.
Win-win for the large corporates, hence in my field (financial services) this is exactly what the big players have done.
ITP said:
I’m waiting for a security clearance.
Problem is government uksv office. They have decided they can’t possibly go to work due to Covid, so are not accepting any applications. Who knows when they will actually work again, despite being on full pay of course.
Everyone else, we are constantly told, should be going back to work, and are. They need to practice what they preach themselves and get the f@&k back to work themselves....
So the government have deliberately left out ltd company directors from any reasonable amount of furlough, knowing how all companies are set up. Never mind, I dont need it, as I sourced my own contract back in May. I can earn my own money rather than sucking out taxpayers money sat in my garden all summer, allowing me to spend money in the local buisness that so need it.
But no, the government themselves are stopping me earning money because they refuse to go back to work to even send out and process forms whilst insisting everyone else gets back to work.
You could make it up, total f@&kwits., the lot of them.
How much out of 10 for that rant!
You have described what was until recently my problem. How many of the 200 Manufacturing Engineers that BAE Systems have been looking for since summer 2019, ( and are still advertising for ) will still be available when security clearance eventually comes through? Problem is government uksv office. They have decided they can’t possibly go to work due to Covid, so are not accepting any applications. Who knows when they will actually work again, despite being on full pay of course.
Everyone else, we are constantly told, should be going back to work, and are. They need to practice what they preach themselves and get the f@&k back to work themselves....
So the government have deliberately left out ltd company directors from any reasonable amount of furlough, knowing how all companies are set up. Never mind, I dont need it, as I sourced my own contract back in May. I can earn my own money rather than sucking out taxpayers money sat in my garden all summer, allowing me to spend money in the local buisness that so need it.
But no, the government themselves are stopping me earning money because they refuse to go back to work to even send out and process forms whilst insisting everyone else gets back to work.
You could make it up, total f@&kwits., the lot of them.
How much out of 10 for that rant!
I personally know 3 other people who are waiting to go through security clearance as well as myself.
The only thing they have in thier favour is the hourly rate, but it will end up inside IR35 by the time people start. Or worse 4 months after they start.
I've recently started a contract which longer term could result in a well paid permie job, with a small start up in the defence and nuclear industry, the hourly rate is lower than going to barrow in furnace but I didn't have to wait indefinitely for a start date. .
SMG Eddie said:
Gazzab said:
tax dodge umbrellas are all the rage
???Edited by Gazzab on Monday 17th August 10:51
Gassing Station | Jobs & Employment Matters | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff