Boss taking you for granted
Discussion
Your Son is learning a trade. That's extremely valuable that you can't put a price on.
In time to come your Son will more and more knowledgable and one day will start doing jobs on the side, Saturday afternoons and Sundays. Once he becomes busier he'll tell his boss he's going self employed himself and then he can up his advertising. After a while he'll realise
The best person to work for is yourself
His boss wasn't earning £200 per hour
Good roofers are like gold-dust
His boss was a good bloke, teaching him a trade that he can use for the rest of his life and earn a good living from
That one day he'll employ a young lad, probably fresh out of school who will be grateful, but he'll have to pay him just above the living wage.
In time to come your Son will more and more knowledgable and one day will start doing jobs on the side, Saturday afternoons and Sundays. Once he becomes busier he'll tell his boss he's going self employed himself and then he can up his advertising. After a while he'll realise
The best person to work for is yourself
His boss wasn't earning £200 per hour
Good roofers are like gold-dust
His boss was a good bloke, teaching him a trade that he can use for the rest of his life and earn a good living from
That one day he'll employ a young lad, probably fresh out of school who will be grateful, but he'll have to pay him just above the living wage.
Countdown said:
lyonspride said:
In this country, the harder you work, the less you get paid.......
If that's true then surely the answer is simple..... just don't work as hard and you'll get paid more.... 
lyonspride said:
Or on the flipside, bosses wonder why their manual labourers can't be bothered sometimes. It's because they look at the idiots in the office, who sit on their arse all day drinking coffee, whilst earning double their wage, and they think "f**k this for a game of soldiers".
Perhaps they should be thinking "wish I'd studied more". 
That said, the average wage of a civil engineer is around £31k according to Google, so possibly the site workers earn more than the guys in the office, depending on their trades...Being higher up the tree just means a different type of work. Someone in IT as a programmer, for example, may earn more than the management, and usually gets to work 9:00-5:30. The management level? Well, they're dealing with escalations and so on, and generally looking at emails, etc. in the evening and on weekends. It feels like they're doing less work because of what's seen, but that may not be the case...
Someone on a shop floor? We'll, they'll be earning less than the management, and doing more physical work. However, they're not worrying about where the next order is coming from, how to balance the books, whether the bank will refinance at a better rate next time so that there's money to update the old equipment or give a better pay rise so that they can keep the guys on the shop floor happy, etc.
fesuvious said:
as an employer
Your lad is out 9.25 hours per day.
Of which likely 1&1/4 is travelling and lunch.
He is working @8hours.
Throw the tax&Ni on that £300 and you'll see he is being paid somewhere @£9-9.50 per hour, at 22.
How is he being taken for a ride? That's more than the REAL living wage. https://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wag...
Ignore those on here who spout crap either way. The living wage is £9, your son, at 22 is earning in excess. Moreover has no travelling costs to do so.
What his boss does, or does not earn is of no relevance
ThisYour lad is out 9.25 hours per day.
Of which likely 1&1/4 is travelling and lunch.
He is working @8hours.
Throw the tax&Ni on that £300 and you'll see he is being paid somewhere @£9-9.50 per hour, at 22.
How is he being taken for a ride? That's more than the REAL living wage. https://www.livingwage.org.uk/what-real-living-wag...
Ignore those on here who spout crap either way. The living wage is £9, your son, at 22 is earning in excess. Moreover has no travelling costs to do so.
What his boss does, or does not earn is of no relevance
lyonspride said:
Or on the flipside, bosses wonder why their manual labourers can't be bothered sometimes. It's because they look at the idiots in the office, who sit on their arse all day drinking coffee, whilst earning double their wage, and they think "f**k this for a game of soldiers".
If somebody can sit on their arse in the office all day drinking coffee whilst earning "double the wage" then arguably they're not the ones who are the "idiots"Countdown said:
lyonspride said:
Or on the flipside, bosses wonder why their manual labourers can't be bothered sometimes. It's because they look at the idiots in the office, who sit on their arse all day drinking coffee, whilst earning double their wage, and they think "f**k this for a game of soldiers".
If somebody can sit on their arse in the office all day drinking coffee whilst earning "double the wage" then arguably they're not the ones who are the "idiots"£200p/h won’t be accurate. The roofer may have earned that a couple of times on profitable jobs, or “touches” as I call them. But they are massively few and far between.
My guess (being in a trade - fencer) :
Roofer is pricing day work at anywhere between £350/£450 per day, making approx £2k a week before tax. Out of this comes his public liability/vehicle insurances, wear and tear on tools, fuel etc.
Is he paying your old boy cash or through the books? £300/350 take home per week sounds about right given the hours with no commuting costs. Leaving the roofer/employer with let’s say £1500 before tax.
If your lad thinks he’s worth more, has the experience to be worth more, then that’s a conversation he has to have with his boss. How long has he been doing the job?
My view is if he is purely a fetch/carry/lift Labrador, he’s on the right money. Semi skilled will be worth £80/100 per day. Experienced will be worth £120/40 per day.
My guess (being in a trade - fencer) :
Roofer is pricing day work at anywhere between £350/£450 per day, making approx £2k a week before tax. Out of this comes his public liability/vehicle insurances, wear and tear on tools, fuel etc.
Is he paying your old boy cash or through the books? £300/350 take home per week sounds about right given the hours with no commuting costs. Leaving the roofer/employer with let’s say £1500 before tax.
If your lad thinks he’s worth more, has the experience to be worth more, then that’s a conversation he has to have with his boss. How long has he been doing the job?
My view is if he is purely a fetch/carry/lift Labrador, he’s on the right money. Semi skilled will be worth £80/100 per day. Experienced will be worth £120/40 per day.
MattCharlton91 said:
£200p/h won’t be accurate. The roofer may have earned that a couple of times on profitable jobs, or “touches” as I call them. But they are massively few and far between.
My guess (being in a trade - fencer) :
Roofer is pricing day work at anywhere between £350/£450 per day, making approx £2k a week before tax. Out of this comes his public liability/vehicle insurances, wear and tear on tools, fuel etc.
Is he paying your old boy cash or through the books? £300/350 take home per week sounds about right given the hours with no commuting costs. Leaving the roofer/employer with let’s say £1500 before tax.
If your lad thinks he’s worth more, has the experience to be worth more, then that’s a conversation he has to have with his boss. How long has he been doing the job?
My view is if he is purely a fetch/carry/lift Labrador, he’s on the right money. Semi skilled will be worth £80/100 per day. Experienced will be worth £120/40 per day.
Thanks for the inputMy guess (being in a trade - fencer) :
Roofer is pricing day work at anywhere between £350/£450 per day, making approx £2k a week before tax. Out of this comes his public liability/vehicle insurances, wear and tear on tools, fuel etc.
Is he paying your old boy cash or through the books? £300/350 take home per week sounds about right given the hours with no commuting costs. Leaving the roofer/employer with let’s say £1500 before tax.
If your lad thinks he’s worth more, has the experience to be worth more, then that’s a conversation he has to have with his boss. How long has he been doing the job?
My view is if he is purely a fetch/carry/lift Labrador, he’s on the right money. Semi skilled will be worth £80/100 per day. Experienced will be worth £120/40 per day.
Send me a tender !I started in a similar way ( 1987)
Worked for a Roofer started on £35 a day, the more elements i learned, the more the money went up. £150 a day by 89.
We worked together as equals from 89-91 but it came to the point where (being younger) i was carrying him. Him, being a decent chap, realised this, and we agreed to part.
I now, along with 2 others have a Roofing Business that turns over 7 million, with projected of 10 next year.
The old fella who started me out has no mortgage or debt, we cleared it all. I started his grandson in May, he’s on £85 a day....the more he learns.....
If your lad is just labouring, he’s on decent money, especially blackpool, i can bring northern Roofers down for £175 a day, good roofers as well. Southern Roofers are 200-220, and any that blow it out after looking at their weather apps don’t last long.
The worst bit of Roofing, for me now, is the being in the office element. You can’t beat being on site with the lads.
So my advice for your lad would be, mouth shut, eyes open.
Worked for a Roofer started on £35 a day, the more elements i learned, the more the money went up. £150 a day by 89.
We worked together as equals from 89-91 but it came to the point where (being younger) i was carrying him. Him, being a decent chap, realised this, and we agreed to part.
I now, along with 2 others have a Roofing Business that turns over 7 million, with projected of 10 next year.
The old fella who started me out has no mortgage or debt, we cleared it all. I started his grandson in May, he’s on £85 a day....the more he learns.....
If your lad is just labouring, he’s on decent money, especially blackpool, i can bring northern Roofers down for £175 a day, good roofers as well. Southern Roofers are 200-220, and any that blow it out after looking at their weather apps don’t last long.
The worst bit of Roofing, for me now, is the being in the office element. You can’t beat being on site with the lads.
So my advice for your lad would be, mouth shut, eyes open.
randlemarcus said:
KAgantua said:
slow_poke said:
keirik said:
£200 an hour?
I missed my vocation earning less than that as an IT Director.
Roofer earns £400k pa. I can see the headlines now
You reckon there's a ceiling on his earnings?I missed my vocation earning less than that as an IT Director.
Roofer earns £400k pa. I can see the headlines now
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