Dismissing Someone while Sick
Discussion
My wife works for accounts in a museum. She is an experienced manager, but pretty overwhelmed with the volume of work she currently has.
She has an employee who having passed probation, completely wound down their work rate, prior to going sick.
The employee has been sick for over 5 weeks now, and has always given doctors notes, but only when chased. Having not turned up, again on Monday my wife emailed asking if they were coming back to plan thier return.
The employee sent a text they weren't , and an email copy of the latest sick note. The notes have been for neuralgia, sinusitis colds, nothing overly sensitive. My wife said company procedure was to send it without being chased, and to phone to confirm it was received. Th employee has responded with a big email how they have a lawyer and my wife is harassing them and causing emotional distress. My wife has asked for far less than the company procedures require.
They have previously lied about the need for various needs for holiday and the like in the past. They have been an employee for 3months as a temp, and about 5months as a permanent employee, having passed probation about 2 months ago.
Any tips on getting rid?
She has an employee who having passed probation, completely wound down their work rate, prior to going sick.
The employee has been sick for over 5 weeks now, and has always given doctors notes, but only when chased. Having not turned up, again on Monday my wife emailed asking if they were coming back to plan thier return.
The employee sent a text they weren't , and an email copy of the latest sick note. The notes have been for neuralgia, sinusitis colds, nothing overly sensitive. My wife said company procedure was to send it without being chased, and to phone to confirm it was received. Th employee has responded with a big email how they have a lawyer and my wife is harassing them and causing emotional distress. My wife has asked for far less than the company procedures require.
They have previously lied about the need for various needs for holiday and the like in the past. They have been an employee for 3months as a temp, and about 5months as a permanent employee, having passed probation about 2 months ago.
Any tips on getting rid?
Thanks Jas,
They do have a company that does pro bono work for them (they are a charity) but their contact is on vacation for three weeks.
My wife is pretty upset, and having seen the email I can understand why, it is very threatening and you can see the game they are playing. She has only enquired if the employee is going to turn up to work when their sick notes have lapsed, and if they needs any help on their return.
She will be speaking to ACAS on Monday for some advice.
They do have a company that does pro bono work for them (they are a charity) but their contact is on vacation for three weeks.
My wife is pretty upset, and having seen the email I can understand why, it is very threatening and you can see the game they are playing. She has only enquired if the employee is going to turn up to work when their sick notes have lapsed, and if they needs any help on their return.
She will be speaking to ACAS on Monday for some advice.
Employee was a temp for three months, then made permanent, probation passed after a further three months, performance dropped off a cliff a soon as probation was signed off (they were looking to start an improvement plan... and then sick, total service is just under 8 months. Notes have been for neuralgia, colds and sinusitis.
What’s your wife’s museum official sickness policy especially around pay?
Need to follow policies to the letter but also the employee has to play ball. You need to establish a regular mutually agreed contact procedure. They can’t just disappear for weeks on end without updates. It’s not harassment to contact the employee (after all, you’re checking on their welfare) just don’t go overboard.
Judging by the employee’s actions, I’d wager he/she has done this before. Were references followed up? (If they’re negative, it will give you an ‘out’ to get rid) Bit cheeky but you may want to snoop around social media if they have open accounts to see if they’re royally taking the piss and give you a bit of ammunition.
ETA,
You shouldn’t have to chase for sick notes. If it runs out on the 1st, you expect them back on the 2nd or they’re marked AWOL and can be disciplined. Make this clear upon receiving the next note and it should be a proper paper sick note, not email (which can be spoofed) and sent to you via signed for mail.
Need to follow policies to the letter but also the employee has to play ball. You need to establish a regular mutually agreed contact procedure. They can’t just disappear for weeks on end without updates. It’s not harassment to contact the employee (after all, you’re checking on their welfare) just don’t go overboard.
Judging by the employee’s actions, I’d wager he/she has done this before. Were references followed up? (If they’re negative, it will give you an ‘out’ to get rid) Bit cheeky but you may want to snoop around social media if they have open accounts to see if they’re royally taking the piss and give you a bit of ammunition.
ETA,
You shouldn’t have to chase for sick notes. If it runs out on the 1st, you expect them back on the 2nd or they’re marked AWOL and can be disciplined. Make this clear upon receiving the next note and it should be a proper paper sick note, not email (which can be spoofed) and sent to you via signed for mail.
Edited by valiant on Friday 15th November 19:51
Edited by valiant on Friday 15th November 19:53
They came in as a temp through an agency, so doesn't have hold of the references. They were offered a permanent role after three months, and probation signed off a further three months, when performance attitude and attendance took a big turn...
She is asking for the original copies of the fit for work notes. The tone of the employees email was very uncalled for, unpleasant and clearly teeing up for a claim of some sort.
The pay is 5 days paid, and then SSP.
She is asking for the original copies of the fit for work notes. The tone of the employees email was very uncalled for, unpleasant and clearly teeing up for a claim of some sort.
The pay is 5 days paid, and then SSP.
IANAL, however it reads like contractual probation and temp status are red herrings here.
The employer can dismiss without reason but they cannot dismiss by reason of a protected characteristic (as in it will depend on the nature of the illness as to whether it may qualify as a disability and therefore put employer at risk of claim for discrimination).
Take some advice from an HR professional or lawyer, if necessary, however it sounds like someone who needs to exit the organisation asap.
The employer can dismiss without reason but they cannot dismiss by reason of a protected characteristic (as in it will depend on the nature of the illness as to whether it may qualify as a disability and therefore put employer at risk of claim for discrimination).
Take some advice from an HR professional or lawyer, if necessary, however it sounds like someone who needs to exit the organisation asap.
CubanPete said:
They came in as a temp through an agency, so doesn't have hold of the references. They were offered a permanent role after three months, and probation signed off a further three months, when performance attitude and attendance took a big turn...
She is asking for the original copies of the fit for work notes. The tone of the employees email was very uncalled for, unpleasant and clearly teeing up for a claim of some sort.
The pay is 5 days paid, and then SSP.
My mrs is a Manager in an LA and gets this sShe is asking for the original copies of the fit for work notes. The tone of the employees email was very uncalled for, unpleasant and clearly teeing up for a claim of some sort.
The pay is 5 days paid, and then SSP.
t all the time (literally)My only advice - other than the previously offered - is don't let her take it personally. This type of person will doubtless be doing this repeatedly at various employers and will know all the ropes. No doubt the e-mail is a variation of a previously used one, so any aggression is a means to an end not an attack on your wife.
Good luck
jules_s said:
My only advice - other than the previously offered - is don't let her take it personally.
This!It's nothing to do with your wife's actions. She's dealing with a work-shy, scheming shyster. It wouldn't matter who the manager was or what they'd done or said.
People like this aren't reacting to what the manager has done, they're following a carefully laid plan to swing the lead to maximum effect and hoping for a payday at the end of it.
PorkInsider said:
jules_s said:
My only advice - other than the previously offered - is don't let her take it personally.
This!It's nothing to do with your wife's actions. She's dealing with a work-shy, scheming shyster. It wouldn't matter who the manager was or what they'd done or said.
People like this aren't reacting to what the manager has done, they're following a carefully laid plan to swing the lead to maximum effect and hoping for a payday at the end of it.
Does she get paid all of her salary when she's off sick?
She has a draft letter to send tomorrow, written by an HR Director friend, if they extend their sick further.
If they comes in, who knows, they haven't made for a comfortable working environment for themselves.
A legitimate redundancy could be an option in place of performance monitoring.
Thanks to those that said, I have reinforced the issue isn't with her, it's the employee.
If they comes in, who knows, they haven't made for a comfortable working environment for themselves.
A legitimate redundancy could be an option in place of performance monitoring.
Thanks to those that said, I have reinforced the issue isn't with her, it's the employee.
Ian Geary said:
What annoys me with this type of employee is the amount of effort they can seemingly put into skyving. Yet if they could just direct that energy into their work, would have a much easier life surely.
100 x this. It's like some people are naturally programmed to avoid honest work, whatever the effort.
Ian Geary said:
What annoys me with this type of employee is the amount of effort they can seemingly put into skyving. Yet if they could just direct that energy into their work, would have a much easier life surely.
Yes probably. But there are some people who if they feel even 1% ill, make a song and dance of it.
You can dismiss employee for any reason within 2 years of employment.
(Un)fortunately the probation period doesn't really mean much!
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