Reclaiming expenses from an outgoing employee

Reclaiming expenses from an outgoing employee

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Discussion

Buster73

5,060 posts

153 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Company credit card and a slack accounts department caused the OP's issue.
Has the OP had the accounts department go through all company credit card accounts over the last few years yet ?

He’ll not be the only one who’s “forgot “ about personal purchases on the company card.

StevieBee

12,875 posts

255 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.

If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.

As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.

Countdown

39,852 posts

196 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.

If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.

As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
We used GPS trackers and fuel cards linked to each van. There would be 6 monthly/random checks of fuel spend vs mileage.

It seems overkill but this was for a fleet of 100 vans. Agreed that, where there is a will there is usually a way.

journeymanpro

757 posts

77 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.

If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.

As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?

Lazermilk

3,523 posts

81 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
journeymanpro said:
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.

If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.

As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?
He didn't, he is the guys neighbour by sounds of things...

GliderRider

2,090 posts

81 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
One thing to check, if there are one or more line managers between the leaver and the OP is whether the leaver had been necessarily worked overtime (e.g. during a company-wide overtime ban), which the manager wanted/needed done, but did not have the authority to officially authorise.

It could be that he had said to the leaver to just cover the outstanding hours with 'purchases in lieu' on the company card. Better to find out now than have it all come out, with egg on the OP's face, in court.

bucksmanuk

2,311 posts

170 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Thales said:
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.
Also, if you're going to "GO BIG" they're far far more likely to come after you......
I think that's what he meant!

bucksmanuk

2,311 posts

170 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Thales said:
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.
The company was previously owned by some seriously dodgy venture capitalists who bled them dry via their "business consultancy" arm and then some.
Credit card abuse was one of many fiddles they had going – hence his comments- I think….

Fugawi

Original Poster:

59 posts

90 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Buster73 said:
“Our policy states that no receipt is provided , the individual pays the bill.”

There’s your answer.
Partial answer. Some receipts are missing, some are just basic abuse of the card, and some unitemised receipts suggest the purchase is for something business related when it clearly isn't.

Fugawi

Original Poster:

59 posts

90 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
Possibly, or to ask a senior employee to authorise the purchase and they pay for the item removing the option for abuse in the future. Biggest purchase on CC is fuel. This individual averaging over £800/month on diesel so it's a lot for an individual to put on their own card. Have just cancelled fuel cards as seem to be costing us more than buying fuel conventionally, however they do prevent other spending.

Fugawi

Original Poster:

59 posts

90 months

Thursday 12th December 2019
quotequote all
Buster73 said:
Has the OP had the accounts department go through all company credit card accounts over the last few years yet ?

He’ll not be the only one who’s “forgot “ about personal purchases on the company card.
Yep, all others checked and are squeaky clean. The only other offender left earlier this year.

StevieBee

12,875 posts

255 months

Friday 13th December 2019
quotequote all
Lazermilk said:
journeymanpro said:
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.

If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.

As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?
He didn't, he is the guys neighbour by sounds of things...
Yep, ex-neighbour. Nice enough - bit of lad. I did mention something along the lines of there's a petrol station up the road you know. His response was "gotta do what you can to get one over the big guys in this life!".

Countdown

39,852 posts

196 months

Friday 13th December 2019
quotequote all
Fugawi said:
Possibly, or to ask a senior employee to authorise the purchase and they pay for the item removing the option for abuse in the future. Biggest purchase on CC is fuel. This individual averaging over £800/month on diesel so it's a lot for an individual to put on their own card. Have just cancelled fuel cards as seem to be costing us more than buying fuel conventionally, however they do prevent other spending.
As I said above we use fuel cards (from Arval IIRC). However, if you don't want to go down that road, another option is to give them a "float", say £500 to £1000. They use that money to fill up, then reclaim back at the end of the month. Your expenses team checks the amount of fuel claimed against mileage records and then processes the payment, which tops up their float. This encourages them to submit expenses properly, it also allows a small degree of checking that they are not stealing diesel. When you give them a float make sure you get them to sign a declaration agreeing for the money to be deducted from their final payslip.

Julian Thompson

2,543 posts

238 months

Monday 16th December 2019
quotequote all
Sorry to hear about this problem. The issue is resolutely within the accounts department, as has been mentioned before. I would retrain the accounts lady to understand that paying without a receipt makes her personally liable for the money.

I’d offer the ex employee a 50% split on what it’s cost if they will allow a deduction from the outstanding wages, otherwise make it clear you’ll have to chase them for it and that you would much rather keep it in house and amicable.

borcy

2,838 posts

56 months

Monday 16th December 2019
quotequote all
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.

CHARLESBERG

138 posts

102 months

Tuesday 17th December 2019
quotequote all
borcy said:
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
Did they stop the driver collecting Clubcard / BP points too? biggrin

borcy

2,838 posts

56 months

Thursday 19th December 2019
quotequote all
CHARLESBERG said:
borcy said:
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
Did they stop the driver collecting Clubcard / BP points too? biggrin
Sorry straight over my head confused

Fugawi

Original Poster:

59 posts

90 months

Sunday 16th February 2020
quotequote all
Been a while but an update for anyone interested.

I sent him an invoice with an itemised breakdown. A couple of emails back and forth and a small negotiation and I retrieved over 90% of what I originally requested, paid on the due date of the invoice. Pretty happy with that!

elanfan

5,520 posts

227 months

Sunday 16th February 2020
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What was his attitude to it, did you get any admissions or apologies?

Fugawi

Original Poster:

59 posts

90 months

Sunday 16th February 2020
quotequote all
He denied some of it and put forward a number of excuses about some expenses which were total crap. I responded with some cast iron evidence and got a brief reply saying would this draw a line under it. I think he knew if I went back further, I would find more and may try and get him to repay these as well.
No apology, no explanation but paid.