Reclaiming expenses from an outgoing employee
Discussion
HTP99 said:
Company credit card and a slack accounts department caused the OP's issue.
Has the OP had the accounts department go through all company credit card accounts over the last few years yet ?He’ll not be the only one who’s “forgot “ about personal purchases on the company card.
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
StevieBee said:
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
It seems overkill but this was for a fleet of 100 vans. Agreed that, where there is a will there is usually a way.
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.
If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
journeymanpro said:
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.
If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
One thing to check, if there are one or more line managers between the leaver and the OP is whether the leaver had been necessarily worked overtime (e.g. during a company-wide overtime ban), which the manager wanted/needed done, but did not have the authority to officially authorise.
It could be that he had said to the leaver to just cover the outstanding hours with 'purchases in lieu' on the company card. Better to find out now than have it all come out, with egg on the OP's face, in court.
It could be that he had said to the leaver to just cover the outstanding hours with 'purchases in lieu' on the company card. Better to find out now than have it all come out, with egg on the OP's face, in court.
Countdown said:
Thales said:
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.Thales said:
bucksmanuk said:
I’ve had them in the past and an ex-boss told me, “if you are going to swindle the company, do it big and do it properly, as it will probably the last decent job you’ll ever have…”.
Not sure why ex boss felt the need to say that in the first place? Would certainly ring alarm bells for me.Credit card abuse was one of many fiddles they had going – hence his comments- I think….
Buster73 said:
“Our policy states that no receipt is provided , the individual pays the bill.”
There’s your answer.
Partial answer. Some receipts are missing, some are just basic abuse of the card, and some unitemised receipts suggest the purchase is for something business related when it clearly isn't.There’s your answer.
Oilchange said:
Maybe next time allow the employee to use their own credit card for expenses and then reclaim the costs using receipts.
That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
Possibly, or to ask a senior employee to authorise the purchase and they pay for the item removing the option for abuse in the future. Biggest purchase on CC is fuel. This individual averaging over £800/month on diesel so it's a lot for an individual to put on their own card. Have just cancelled fuel cards as seem to be costing us more than buying fuel conventionally, however they do prevent other spending.That way no cash spent per se by the employee and all costs recouped and the company has less to worry about. Like nil.
Is that doable?
Buster73 said:
Has the OP had the accounts department go through all company credit card accounts over the last few years yet ?
He’ll not be the only one who’s “forgot “ about personal purchases on the company card.
Yep, all others checked and are squeaky clean. The only other offender left earlier this year. He’ll not be the only one who’s “forgot “ about personal purchases on the company card.
Lazermilk said:
journeymanpro said:
StevieBee said:
To a degree, this works but is not a failsafe by any means. Had chap who used live along from us who had a work van. Twice a week, he'd pour fuel into his own car from two jerry cans grabbed from the back of his van - obviously filling them up when filling his van so it all appeared on one bill.
If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Crafty that, how did you catch him out?If someone is predisposed to such actions they will find a way.
As the OP says, you need robust internal checks regardless of the means of expense provision.
Fugawi said:
Possibly, or to ask a senior employee to authorise the purchase and they pay for the item removing the option for abuse in the future. Biggest purchase on CC is fuel. This individual averaging over £800/month on diesel so it's a lot for an individual to put on their own card. Have just cancelled fuel cards as seem to be costing us more than buying fuel conventionally, however they do prevent other spending.
As I said above we use fuel cards (from Arval IIRC). However, if you don't want to go down that road, another option is to give them a "float", say £500 to £1000. They use that money to fill up, then reclaim back at the end of the month. Your expenses team checks the amount of fuel claimed against mileage records and then processes the payment, which tops up their float. This encourages them to submit expenses properly, it also allows a small degree of checking that they are not stealing diesel. When you give them a float make sure you get them to sign a declaration agreeing for the money to be deducted from their final payslip.Sorry to hear about this problem. The issue is resolutely within the accounts department, as has been mentioned before. I would retrain the accounts lady to understand that paying without a receipt makes her personally liable for the money.
I’d offer the ex employee a 50% split on what it’s cost if they will allow a deduction from the outstanding wages, otherwise make it clear you’ll have to chase them for it and that you would much rather keep it in house and amicable.
I’d offer the ex employee a 50% split on what it’s cost if they will allow a deduction from the outstanding wages, otherwise make it clear you’ll have to chase them for it and that you would much rather keep it in house and amicable.
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
borcy said:
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
Did they stop the driver collecting Clubcard / BP points too? All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
CHARLESBERG said:
borcy said:
Someone i knew worked for a small business with loads of vans, they paid to use a hgv company fuel pumps. Each vehicle had a coded key, every time you filled up you had to enter the mileage.
All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
Did they stop the driver collecting Clubcard / BP points too? All the fuel economy, amounts of fuel, locations etc was worked out and sent back to the boss.
Pretty good system, hard to fiddle.
He denied some of it and put forward a number of excuses about some expenses which were total crap. I responded with some cast iron evidence and got a brief reply saying would this draw a line under it. I think he knew if I went back further, I would find more and may try and get him to repay these as well.
No apology, no explanation but paid.
No apology, no explanation but paid.
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