Job for (soon to be?) ex cop
Discussion
Im a fellow copper, although based up in Scotland so different (better) terms and conditions than down south of the border.
Sometimes when your stuck on response policing, it can seem relentless and that you are treated terribly by the force, not supported by bosses and always struggling for opportunities or training. Its the same in most forces, we all feel that way but its not all negative. A change of supervisor or area or even just a change in attitude can make a big difference to how people develop and how much you enjoy your daily shift.
I like you, joined at 18 and when I got to about 5 years service had a bit of wobble where I started to look at alternative jobs / starting my own business etc. Pretty much everyone goes through that stage at some point. I made an arse of my first promotion diploma as my heart wasn't in it and I couldn't really be bothered with any extra work as I felt being on "response" shift was hard enough.
But what I did was, I sat and thought about the good and bad of the job, why I had joined originally and what I wanted to get out of work. I even wrote some stuff down on paper so I could actually weigh up my options r.e wages, time off etc. That really focussed me on what I wanted to do for the next few years (for me it was proactive, operational policing) and then I worked out how to develop myself in that direction. I gained a new enthusiasm for the job, working hard and volunteering for any training of extra courses. I got a probationer for a year or two and loved showing him the correct way to work on a shift. I kept pushing for secondments to local crime team, traffic and housebreaking team to see what they did and learn new skills. My gaffer at the time realised I was much more motivated so he ended up recommending me for the promotion course again.
Fast forward a few years and I'm a Sergeant in charge of an operational support team. Basically going out, being proactive and locking bad folk up every day. It's absolute heaven. (The bonus is I even get to do a fair few of my shifts on an off road motorbike makes it the best job i've ever had). Probably do it a few more years and then try for promotion again but remaining operational.
But, had I considered all my options and decided that I wanted to leave and that was best, I would have went. Life is too short to do a job that you don't like.
Sometimes when your stuck on response policing, it can seem relentless and that you are treated terribly by the force, not supported by bosses and always struggling for opportunities or training. Its the same in most forces, we all feel that way but its not all negative. A change of supervisor or area or even just a change in attitude can make a big difference to how people develop and how much you enjoy your daily shift.
I like you, joined at 18 and when I got to about 5 years service had a bit of wobble where I started to look at alternative jobs / starting my own business etc. Pretty much everyone goes through that stage at some point. I made an arse of my first promotion diploma as my heart wasn't in it and I couldn't really be bothered with any extra work as I felt being on "response" shift was hard enough.
But what I did was, I sat and thought about the good and bad of the job, why I had joined originally and what I wanted to get out of work. I even wrote some stuff down on paper so I could actually weigh up my options r.e wages, time off etc. That really focussed me on what I wanted to do for the next few years (for me it was proactive, operational policing) and then I worked out how to develop myself in that direction. I gained a new enthusiasm for the job, working hard and volunteering for any training of extra courses. I got a probationer for a year or two and loved showing him the correct way to work on a shift. I kept pushing for secondments to local crime team, traffic and housebreaking team to see what they did and learn new skills. My gaffer at the time realised I was much more motivated so he ended up recommending me for the promotion course again.
Fast forward a few years and I'm a Sergeant in charge of an operational support team. Basically going out, being proactive and locking bad folk up every day. It's absolute heaven. (The bonus is I even get to do a fair few of my shifts on an off road motorbike makes it the best job i've ever had). Probably do it a few more years and then try for promotion again but remaining operational.
But, had I considered all my options and decided that I wanted to leave and that was best, I would have went. Life is too short to do a job that you don't like.
Edited by david mcc on Saturday 28th December 16:03
Edited by david mcc on Saturday 28th December 16:08
At the council I work for, there are ex police in both planning enforcement roles and our anti-fraud teams.
They are all very good at what they do, and I think their experience makes a massive difference to a more typical council mindset.
Having said that, i've stuck with my employer for 13+ years who have been great at development and promotion opportunities.
I would try and understand what it is that's not currently working in your force, as everything i've heard suggests the police give a lot of opportunity for development.
Ian
They are all very good at what they do, and I think their experience makes a massive difference to a more typical council mindset.
Having said that, i've stuck with my employer for 13+ years who have been great at development and promotion opportunities.
I would try and understand what it is that's not currently working in your force, as everything i've heard suggests the police give a lot of opportunity for development.
Ian
I thought id revive this thread, not necessarily for more advice but just to document my experience.
More than two years after my OP, my thoughts re leaving have returned. Or, more accurately, I've lost the ability to keep ignoring them.
I have been in two different office jobs since I last posted. In reality, both were very cushy and in my current role I don't have to do a great deal of work.
But i can't focus. All I think about is leaving and tbh that has been the case for most of my 8 years. I've managed to soldier on but with a young family now I would prefer to take a hit in wages and spend more time with them.
Logistically, I'm probably 3 - 6 months away from leaving. I'll make the necessary arrangements before I hit the exit button and it'd be handy to have some extra savings too.
My long term plan is still up for negotiation but I'll update the thread as things go. I'm sure there are plenty of people in my position who have had similar thoughts.
More than two years after my OP, my thoughts re leaving have returned. Or, more accurately, I've lost the ability to keep ignoring them.
I have been in two different office jobs since I last posted. In reality, both were very cushy and in my current role I don't have to do a great deal of work.
But i can't focus. All I think about is leaving and tbh that has been the case for most of my 8 years. I've managed to soldier on but with a young family now I would prefer to take a hit in wages and spend more time with them.
Logistically, I'm probably 3 - 6 months away from leaving. I'll make the necessary arrangements before I hit the exit button and it'd be handy to have some extra savings too.
My long term plan is still up for negotiation but I'll update the thread as things go. I'm sure there are plenty of people in my position who have had similar thoughts.
I've been in for just over 21 years now, so 9 more to run, the pension debacle has made my mind up that I'm going in under 4 now.
What do you fancy doing for a career? Other than what you're doing now? The job has real ups and downs, there's been many many times over the years that I've wanted to do something different, should I have jumped at some point. Yes, is probably the answer, but like many, you do become almost institutionalised.
I probably have a load of skills that I could utilise elsewhere, but sometimes, it can be difficult to see the opportunities. I think you maybe need to think outside the box a bit?
How about training? training the new recruits? you'll probably have to get a training qualification, but I would think most forces would do that in house or certainly be able to put you through the courses.
What do you fancy doing for a career? Other than what you're doing now? The job has real ups and downs, there's been many many times over the years that I've wanted to do something different, should I have jumped at some point. Yes, is probably the answer, but like many, you do become almost institutionalised.
I probably have a load of skills that I could utilise elsewhere, but sometimes, it can be difficult to see the opportunities. I think you maybe need to think outside the box a bit?
How about training? training the new recruits? you'll probably have to get a training qualification, but I would think most forces would do that in house or certainly be able to put you through the courses.
Career wise, I'm undecided. I would consider doing an apprenticeship but haven't made any firm decisions. In the short to medium term I'm happy enough just doing a job that pays the bills. I've got some options in that regard, they're mainly driving jobs so not really related to my current job which I'm OK with.
I get why people stay and with your service it would be a rough call if you're unhappy. I think 4 years to go isn't too long in the grand scheme of things although it might feel like it.
My issue is I'm unmotivated. I applied for a CT Intel Job last year which I didn't get. I was relieved when I got rejected though. Its as interesting a job as I'd seen and as soon as I applied I just lost all enthusiasm for it. If I don't want that job, I don't want any in this organisation realistically. I'm OK with that. Its been bubbling away for years and I really think my time has come to an end.
I get why people stay and with your service it would be a rough call if you're unhappy. I think 4 years to go isn't too long in the grand scheme of things although it might feel like it.
My issue is I'm unmotivated. I applied for a CT Intel Job last year which I didn't get. I was relieved when I got rejected though. Its as interesting a job as I'd seen and as soon as I applied I just lost all enthusiasm for it. If I don't want that job, I don't want any in this organisation realistically. I'm OK with that. Its been bubbling away for years and I really think my time has come to an end.
OP - any value in taking a sabatical from the Police force?
A friend of mine did that and it gave her 5 years (if I recall) to work out if she wanted to go back. During the sabatical she decided she didn't, resigned and never had to do the job again but it saved properly closing the door, which I guess is what happens if you just straight resign ?
A friend of mine did that and it gave her 5 years (if I recall) to work out if she wanted to go back. During the sabatical she decided she didn't, resigned and never had to do the job again but it saved properly closing the door, which I guess is what happens if you just straight resign ?
I would also suggest taking a career break if it's an option to you, historically I know the Police forces have allowed it for a number of years, it gives you an option should you decide down the line to return and in addition it would mean should you return you don't start at the bottom of the pay scale again as you would if you quit and reapplied years later.
Trendsetter said:
More than two years after my OP, my thoughts re leaving have returned. Or, more accurately, I've lost the ability to keep ignoring them.
You are nearing the stage where you will be on the highest pay scale for your rank, that may make it harder to leave as you willed to find a job that pays similar. The pension is a bit of a trap, folk stay in the job because of the pension, but this isn't necessarily the best choice if you really are unhappy in your job.Sounds like you have an easy stress free office job, they are hard to come by in the police. Why not apply or a career break? I think 5 yrs may be the maximum allowed, if your force offers this. You can still work elsewhere (with police permission) and then re-evaluate you situation in a few years. means you don't have to completely leave and can automatically return at the end of the break.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Tuesday 29th March 13:52
LeadFarmer said:
. The pension is a bit of a trap, folk stay in the job because of the pension,
What's it like out of interest?As an office monkey, I have no clue - ours is 7% from the firm and 4% from me, 11% a year I didn't think was too bad though it's not final salary and other firms in a similar field will easily be doing 10% non contributory.
I always hear of people talk about NHS, Police, Forces pensions being good - are they ?
Sebo said:
What's it like out of interest?
As an office monkey, I have no clue - ours is 7% from the firm and 4% from me, 11% a year I didn't think was too bad though it's not final salary and other firms in a similar field will easily be doing 10% non contributory.
I always hear of people talk about NHS, Police, Forces pensions being good - are they ?
Police pension is good, but then they pay an awful lot into it, somewhere in the region of 14%. The government have changed it from being a final salary to average earnings, so not as good as it was, but still good. It's not the golden handshake that some folk claim it to be, as the police pay isn't great, but they kind of get that settled if they stay to pension time. Lump sum for a PC can be around £130k and then a monthly pension. or they can have a larger monthly pension if they take a smaller lump sum.As an office monkey, I have no clue - ours is 7% from the firm and 4% from me, 11% a year I didn't think was too bad though it's not final salary and other firms in a similar field will easily be doing 10% non contributory.
I always hear of people talk about NHS, Police, Forces pensions being good - are they ?
The lump sum sounds a lot, but if you average that £130k out over say 30 yrs service then it kind of only inflates the poor salary to not being quite as poor. Im not knocking the police for having a crap salary, quite the contrary, on the face of it their salary looks ok, but for the work they have to do I don't see it as great. they should be paid more.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Tuesday 29th March 15:59
I think the career break sounds like a good option but I don't think it would work for me. You need police permission for every job you'd take during the break, you're still very beholden to them. I think I need a clean break, a defined end to my service rather than a strange compromise.
I pay about 13.5% in and the police contribute around 23%. So a lot goes in. The way I see it, I have a good pension pot already which provides some security. I'm 27 so there's plenty of time to invest in other ways if I'm giving up the generous pension
I pay about 13.5% in and the police contribute around 23%. So a lot goes in. The way I see it, I have a good pension pot already which provides some security. I'm 27 so there's plenty of time to invest in other ways if I'm giving up the generous pension
Trendsetter said:
My issue is I'm unmotivated. I applied for a CT Intel Job last year which I didn't get. I was relieved when I got rejected though. Its as interesting a job as I'd seen and as soon as I applied I just lost all enthusiasm for it. If I don't want that job, I don't want any in this organisation realistically. I'm OK with that. Its been bubbling away for years and I really think my time has come to an end.
I know what you mean, my boss has already said that he's planning ahead and he would transform my post into staff and he'd cleared with the head of dept that I wouldn't need to apply, just walk back in.BUT, I'm like you, I do love the job, but I don't love the organisation, the politics, bureaucracy etc. that's why i'm really hoping I can leave fully. But who knows, may need the job in 4 years?
nordboy said:
Trendsetter said:
My issue is I'm unmotivated. I applied for a CT Intel Job last year which I didn't get. I was relieved when I got rejected though. Its as interesting a job as I'd seen and as soon as I applied I just lost all enthusiasm for it. If I don't want that job, I don't want any in this organisation realistically. I'm OK with that. Its been bubbling away for years and I really think my time has come to an end.
I know what you mean, my boss has already said that he's planning ahead and he would transform my post into staff and he'd cleared with the head of dept that I wouldn't need to apply, just walk back in.BUT, I'm like you, I do love the job, but I don't love the organisation, the politics, bureaucracy etc. that's why i'm really hoping I can leave fully. But who knows, may need the job in 4 years?
It's good to have the security of knowing you have something to go back to if you want. But I think its that security that stops a lot of people leaving. Better the devil you know sometimes. But I can't work on like this. Not for another 33 years anyway!
nordboy said:
I've been in for just over 21 years now, so 9 more to run, the pension debacle has made my mind up that I'm going in under 4 now.
What do you fancy doing for a career? Other than what you're doing now? The job has real ups and downs, there's been many many times over the years that I've wanted to do something different, should I have jumped at some point. Yes, is probably the answer, but like many, you do become almost institutionalised.
I probably have a load of skills that I could utilise elsewhere, but sometimes, it can be difficult to see the opportunities. I think you maybe need to think outside the box a bit?
How about training? training the new recruits? you'll probably have to get a training qualification, but I would think most forces would do that in house or certainly be able to put you through the courses.
From what I've been hearing, a lot of people are going to jump when they hit the magical 50 and 25 year mark.What do you fancy doing for a career? Other than what you're doing now? The job has real ups and downs, there's been many many times over the years that I've wanted to do something different, should I have jumped at some point. Yes, is probably the answer, but like many, you do become almost institutionalised.
I probably have a load of skills that I could utilise elsewhere, but sometimes, it can be difficult to see the opportunities. I think you maybe need to think outside the box a bit?
How about training? training the new recruits? you'll probably have to get a training qualification, but I would think most forces would do that in house or certainly be able to put you through the courses.
Trendsetter said:
That quote of mine is the most telling I think. After the interview I became really anxious. I dreaded the thought of getting the job even though it really interests me. I realised after that that I'd pretty much reached the end of the road.
It's good to have the security of knowing you have something to go back to if you want. But I think its that security that stops a lot of people leaving. Better the devil you know sometimes. But I can't work on like this. Not for another 33 years anyway!
you're in a totally different situation than me, I have 4 to go, at the end of my career. If I had 33 to go, I'd probably be looking for an out as well. You're at an age where you can do something else. It does get to the point that it almost becomes too difficult to make the decision to go, you start looking at pensions for example (even though they've been hammered and are not what they once were).It's good to have the security of knowing you have something to go back to if you want. But I think its that security that stops a lot of people leaving. Better the devil you know sometimes. But I can't work on like this. Not for another 33 years anyway!
I also think the job is going to have to adapt and change dramatically over the next 10 yrs. People aren't going to stay and finish their full service. There's going to be a constant turnover of officers, and with that, a drop in experience, which we're already seeing to a certain extent.
Got to make the right decision for yourself and your families. I think you've already decided, just need to find out what you want to do.
I'm not sure how IT savvy you are, but have you considered moving over to cyber/information security? Coming from a police background may make you suited to a digital forensics type role.
Otherwise, you could consider undertaking some training and moving into a junior SOC analyst type role, ISO27001 compliance auditor, projects... There really are a heap of options out there and it appears to be an ever expanding industry. Generally above average pay, many options for remote work with no degree required. If you hold SC/DV that opens up a wealth of opportunities also. I'm forces and it's likely where I'll end up when I leave.
Whilst there is a requirement for 'geeks' to do some of the more specialised roles, there is always a need for 'people' people who can take a technical concept and translate it into business speak for senior management to make a decision. I think that your background as a PC would probably stand you in good stead in that regard.
Just an idea...
Otherwise, you could consider undertaking some training and moving into a junior SOC analyst type role, ISO27001 compliance auditor, projects... There really are a heap of options out there and it appears to be an ever expanding industry. Generally above average pay, many options for remote work with no degree required. If you hold SC/DV that opens up a wealth of opportunities also. I'm forces and it's likely where I'll end up when I leave.
Whilst there is a requirement for 'geeks' to do some of the more specialised roles, there is always a need for 'people' people who can take a technical concept and translate it into business speak for senior management to make a decision. I think that your background as a PC would probably stand you in good stead in that regard.
Just an idea...
Terzo123 said:
From what I've been hearing, a lot of people are going to jump when they hit the magical 50 and 25 year mark.
The early retirement after 25yrs (which is only paid out by the old 1987 pension scheme, not the newer CARE scheme) pays a substantially smaller lump sum. They can retire after 25 years even if they are only 48 yrs old (assuming they joined at age18) but they can't draw the pension until they are 50 yrs old.A PC retiring today with 25yrs in the 1987 scheme would take a lump sum of around £45k, compared to working another 5 yrs and getting approx £130k lump sum at 30yrs service. So it's quite a difference. Reaching age 55 is another trigger point for receiving the larger lump sum. You can see why the pension is a trap, preventing people from leaving.
The new CARE pension that the government are switching all cops onto on 1st April 2022 allows an earliest retirement age of 55, but pays a larger pension if they stay till they are age 60. I can't see many staying till that age though, not when lots of recruits are leaving in their first 2 yrs of service.
But as I mentioned earlier, whilst £130k sounds a lot of money, spread that out over their 30 yrs service and it adds just £4k to their annual salary, which still isn't a brilliant wage for what they do.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 00:06
nordboy said:
I also think the job is going to have to adapt and change dramatically over the next 10 yrs. People aren't going to stay and finish their full service. There's going to be a constant turnover of officers, and with that, a drop in experience, which we're already seeing to a certain extent.
It's all about policing degrees now. Folk are going to see joining as a way of getting their degree, then they'll leave to get a less stressful job with better conditions. Maybe that's what the government and police want, so cops never reach top of their pay scale? I genuinely don't think the police service cares about having cops with experience, it's going to be just a 'bums on seats' approach. Even now in some forces, the typical average length of service for a response cop is about 3 years!! The public will be the losers, but then I don't think they care either. We live in a world where nobody really cares anymore. And soon enough the day will come when cops just don't care ether.
Edited by LeadFarmer on Wednesday 30th March 00:13
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