Degree Apprenticeship - Level 6 - HELP
Discussion
Hi All,
Hope someone can help me with this one. My eldest (also a petrol-head) is currently in the 1st year of A-Levels.
Over the next few weeks, the school is taking them to fairs and starting the conversation about University and degree courses etc.
My son mentioned Degree apprenticeships to me and I though he was joking but alas I am wrong!
So I have been frantically googling trying to understand the ins and outs but it seems things are not that clear to me. Some of these courses where you obviously work in industry, have an element of University study in block release or 1 day per week. Others courses do not mention study at all.
Am I right in thinking that the apprenticeship you choose, may have an official degree from a university and others may not?
The reason for my slight alarm bells is that I would rather he goes for one where he officially gets a degree in his name, as this will be more useful in the future, as he progresses though his career.
Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Do you go via UCAS or apply with the companies directly? I'm a little confused.
IceBoy
Hope someone can help me with this one. My eldest (also a petrol-head) is currently in the 1st year of A-Levels.
Over the next few weeks, the school is taking them to fairs and starting the conversation about University and degree courses etc.
My son mentioned Degree apprenticeships to me and I though he was joking but alas I am wrong!
So I have been frantically googling trying to understand the ins and outs but it seems things are not that clear to me. Some of these courses where you obviously work in industry, have an element of University study in block release or 1 day per week. Others courses do not mention study at all.
Am I right in thinking that the apprenticeship you choose, may have an official degree from a university and others may not?
The reason for my slight alarm bells is that I would rather he goes for one where he officially gets a degree in his name, as this will be more useful in the future, as he progresses though his career.
Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Do you go via UCAS or apply with the companies directly? I'm a little confused.
IceBoy
Edited by IceBoy on Thursday 13th February 10:19
I looked at this for my youngest recently, and understand the following:
The degree will absolutely be in his name at the end.
A decent company will be very clear as to where the degree is coming from, i.e. University of X mentioned in the Apprenticeship blurb on their website.
It should be reasonably clear what the expectations are about study / release / working hours etc
What it might not be so clear about is the amount of self motivation expected of an apprentice, or the fact that, not unreasonably, the degree may be more focussed than one you may for yourself, i.e. rather than "Computer Science", it is in "Computer Science, and the practical applications of Data Analytics".
Still better than 50 grand of debt, but neither a gift, nor a trap
The degree will absolutely be in his name at the end.
A decent company will be very clear as to where the degree is coming from, i.e. University of X mentioned in the Apprenticeship blurb on their website.
It should be reasonably clear what the expectations are about study / release / working hours etc
What it might not be so clear about is the amount of self motivation expected of an apprentice, or the fact that, not unreasonably, the degree may be more focussed than one you may for yourself, i.e. rather than "Computer Science", it is in "Computer Science, and the practical applications of Data Analytics".
Still better than 50 grand of debt, but neither a gift, nor a trap
Thanks randlemarcus,
Some of the jobs/apprenticeships I have seen have no mention of studying for the degree in the blurb. I'm guessing these are not the ones we are talking about.
Do you just have to scour the web or is there a place where all these companies advertise their apprenticeships? This is the difficulty I think, I don't think they go via UCAS ?
Hopefully the school will have a parents evening where this can be discussed.
IceBoy
Some of the jobs/apprenticeships I have seen have no mention of studying for the degree in the blurb. I'm guessing these are not the ones we are talking about.
Do you just have to scour the web or is there a place where all these companies advertise their apprenticeships? This is the difficulty I think, I don't think they go via UCAS ?
Hopefully the school will have a parents evening where this can be discussed.
IceBoy
I think UCAS runs some form of apprenticeship application portal, but not sure if that's an apply via UCAS, or a jobs board type thing (https://www.ucas.com/alternatives/apprenticeships/apprenticeships-england/what-apprenticeships-are-available/degree-apprenticeships)
I found it useful with my lad to concentrate on the end degree subject, in our case Computer Science, narrow down the companies based on my industry experience, and have a cold hard look at the details they had about the work, and the degree they would come out of it with. In the end, we decided (ha! he decided) that the breadth of the degree course offered, plus the social side of things meant that University won out over the apprenticeship. Russell Group course, breadth of industry affiliation, and the odd beer or two, versus some surprisingly ahem, arcane choices of University from the apprenticeship.
I love the idea of him not having the debt saddling him, but loans are what they are, and I expect his earnings to mean the debt may actually be cleared at some point. Other careers may tip the scales of value one way or another, i.e. social work will probably never pay enough to clear the student loans, so balls to it. There is definitely a middle ground where not having that ballast means that the apprenticeships are worth it.
I found it useful with my lad to concentrate on the end degree subject, in our case Computer Science, narrow down the companies based on my industry experience, and have a cold hard look at the details they had about the work, and the degree they would come out of it with. In the end, we decided (ha! he decided) that the breadth of the degree course offered, plus the social side of things meant that University won out over the apprenticeship. Russell Group course, breadth of industry affiliation, and the odd beer or two, versus some surprisingly ahem, arcane choices of University from the apprenticeship.
I love the idea of him not having the debt saddling him, but loans are what they are, and I expect his earnings to mean the debt may actually be cleared at some point. Other careers may tip the scales of value one way or another, i.e. social work will probably never pay enough to clear the student loans, so balls to it. There is definitely a middle ground where not having that ballast means that the apprenticeships are worth it.
IceBoy said:
Hi All,
Hope someone can help me with this one. My eldest (also a petrol-head) is currently in the 1st year of A-Levels.
Over the next few weeks, the school is taking them to fairs and starting the conversation about University and degree courses etc.
My son mentioned Degree apprenticeships to me and I though he was joking but alas I am wrong!
So I have been frantically googling trying to understand the ins and outs but it seems things are not that clear to me. Some of these courses where you obviously work in industry, have an element of University study in block release or 1 day per week. Others courses do not mention study at all.
Am I right in thinking that the apprenticeship you choose, may have an official degree from a university and others may not?
The reason for my slight alarm bells is that I would rather he goes for one where he officially gets a degree in his name, as this will be more useful in the future, as he progresses though his career.
Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Do you go via UCAS or apply with the companies directly? I'm a little confused.
IceBoy
I can only speak from my experience - but hopefully it will give some insight. Hope someone can help me with this one. My eldest (also a petrol-head) is currently in the 1st year of A-Levels.
Over the next few weeks, the school is taking them to fairs and starting the conversation about University and degree courses etc.
My son mentioned Degree apprenticeships to me and I though he was joking but alas I am wrong!
So I have been frantically googling trying to understand the ins and outs but it seems things are not that clear to me. Some of these courses where you obviously work in industry, have an element of University study in block release or 1 day per week. Others courses do not mention study at all.
Am I right in thinking that the apprenticeship you choose, may have an official degree from a university and others may not?
The reason for my slight alarm bells is that I would rather he goes for one where he officially gets a degree in his name, as this will be more useful in the future, as he progresses though his career.
Any help and advice greatly appreciated. Do you go via UCAS or apply with the companies directly? I'm a little confused.
IceBoy
Edited by IceBoy on Thursday 13th February 10:19
I joined my current employer via a level 3 apprenticeship which involved block release at a college with on the job training when not studying. Admin and enrolment at the college/onto the apprenticeship was handled by the employer - there's an apprenticeship agreement between the apprentice and the employer which outlines what the apprentice will receive at the end of the apprenticeship and what the employer expects in return.
At the end of my level 3 apprenticeship I came away with NVQ and BTEC qualifications in my name.
I then started a Level 6 apprenticeship in Building Services in September (at 29!) - they're fairly new and my employer has started to trial them, particularly engineering degree apprenticeships - they also offer a Level 6 Civil Engineering apprenticeship.
For my level 6 apprenticeship the degree side is delivered by London Southbank university, and enrolment was arranged via my employer. There are four others on my apprenticeship who are brand new to the company - either straight out of school, or a career change. As far as I'm aware, they joined the level 6 apprenticeship in the same way I joined via my level 3 in 2015 - via a job application and interview process (like a normal job).
Without putting a damper on anything, what I will say is that Level 6 apprenticeships are quite a commitment - because it's a part-time degree it takes 5-6 years to complete. Do you know what degree apprenticeship your son is looking at? Is it offered by a company he aspires to work for? Or in a subject he has a strong interest in? I only ask, because from my experience on the level 3 apprenticeship, they can become a chore for those who lose interest or become disheartened with their chosen employer/subject…
In terms of learning structure, I go to uni one day a week (9am - 6pm, 4 lectures, 2 hours each) and then am in the office/on site the other 4 days. There are coursework elements as well as exams, and unlike college, there will be reading/learning to do outside of the time at uni.
But he will get a degree at the end of it, and after the employer has spent 5-6 years training them, they will probably do their best to employ him at the end of it. For some schemes the apprenticeship lines up with industry body accreditations – for example my building services apprenticeship aligns with the requirements to become an Incorporated Engineer with CIBSE when I graduate.
It might also be worth going with him to one or two career event days to help get more a feel from some of the employers about what their schemes involve.
Matt
I'm a 20 year old computing apprentice on a degree apprenticeship.The learning structure of my apprenticeship is a bit different to the poster above. My training provider is QA Apprenticeships (degree accredited by Uni of Roehampton) and it's mostly 'distance learning' to get your degree (think Open University). We're given learning materials for each module (videos, PowerPoints etc etc) and we learn from them. I do this once a week from my desk at work - apprentices have to be given this time by law so we don't just get bullied into doing the company's work on that day. Every 5/6 weeks we spend 2 days at a QA office and we get some time for lecture based learning. Those couple of days you get to ask about things you're not sure about, which can be pretty useful if you can't get your head round a certain topic!
I do careers fairs at local schools and I always say a degree apprenticeship sets you up nicely. No debts to worry about, you get your foot in the door with the company who's employing you (who'll hopefully give you a job at the end!), and I'd argue I'm more employable at my company than a graduate. A graduate will have ~1 year of industry experience, whereas I have 4 years, I have the same level of qualification as them and I've learned a lot of work skills that you need in any job. I guess the only catch is the amount of work it is - we're getting the same level of qualification as typical uni students but we're also holding a full time job. Sometimes it can be quite tough, but it's worth it.
Hopefully the school is telling the students about apprenticeships. When I left school a couple years ago, I always said I wanted an apprenticeship and they never bothered helping me with writing applications, but they'd make sure people's UCAS applications were perfect
In terms of searching for apprenticeships, I'd go to: https://www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship and this'll point you in the direction of applying direct on the companies website - that's what I used when I was looking and I ended up applying for quite a few.
Any more information about the type of apprenticeship your son is looking at would be helpful (what industry for example) and any questions I (and I'm sure others) would be happy to answer. There's plenty more I could talk about in regards to the scheme I'm on but I'll save you from information overload!
I do careers fairs at local schools and I always say a degree apprenticeship sets you up nicely. No debts to worry about, you get your foot in the door with the company who's employing you (who'll hopefully give you a job at the end!), and I'd argue I'm more employable at my company than a graduate. A graduate will have ~1 year of industry experience, whereas I have 4 years, I have the same level of qualification as them and I've learned a lot of work skills that you need in any job. I guess the only catch is the amount of work it is - we're getting the same level of qualification as typical uni students but we're also holding a full time job. Sometimes it can be quite tough, but it's worth it.
Hopefully the school is telling the students about apprenticeships. When I left school a couple years ago, I always said I wanted an apprenticeship and they never bothered helping me with writing applications, but they'd make sure people's UCAS applications were perfect
In terms of searching for apprenticeships, I'd go to: https://www.gov.uk/apply-apprenticeship and this'll point you in the direction of applying direct on the companies website - that's what I used when I was looking and I ended up applying for quite a few.
Any more information about the type of apprenticeship your son is looking at would be helpful (what industry for example) and any questions I (and I'm sure others) would be happy to answer. There's plenty more I could talk about in regards to the scheme I'm on but I'll save you from information overload!
I employ level 3 and 4 apprentices in my team and am planning to put one into a new level 6 degree apprenticeship in the autumn.
My apprentices are studying through different training providers. The level 4 apprentice has had 3 residential courses and sat three professional exams (in addition to the apprenticeship itself). They had a lot of on demand webinars to do initially but since then the learning has been on the job - producing a portfolio of projects, all based on our business - so I’ve had the luxury of letting them work away fairly autonomously whilst talking some quite knotty problems the business wouldn’t normally have the resources to investigate. we are all on hand to advise though. Once this portfolio covers all of the assessment criteria they will do a 35 hour synoptic project set by the examining body, under exam conditions. Basically I have to make them work in a quiet room for a week. We have a tutor who monitors progress monthly but otherwise it’s pretty hands off.
The level 3 apprenticeship is via a well known private college and the apprentice has classmates from the big four accountancy firms and from high street banks. The format is different to the other course . A day of classroom learning in London, online learning videos plus two live webinars for every module. They have to produce an assignment per module and the final module will be a project with a presentation to an external examiner. Plus there are Skype sessions with a tutor on at least a monthly basis.
We cover all travel and accommodation relating to the training, and my firm lays on central training days for the apprentices covering things like basic business skills etc. We have to make a commitment to top up the training provided and make sure that we allow time for them to write up their projects.
I haven’t got the level 6 apprenticeship signed off yet but it will be with a local uni. There will be about 4-5 weeks classroom training / exam week per year. It will take 3 years to complete.
I’ve noticed that the degree apprenticeships only seem to be open to levy paying employers. These are firms with at least a £3mill annual salary bill.
My apprentices are studying through different training providers. The level 4 apprentice has had 3 residential courses and sat three professional exams (in addition to the apprenticeship itself). They had a lot of on demand webinars to do initially but since then the learning has been on the job - producing a portfolio of projects, all based on our business - so I’ve had the luxury of letting them work away fairly autonomously whilst talking some quite knotty problems the business wouldn’t normally have the resources to investigate. we are all on hand to advise though. Once this portfolio covers all of the assessment criteria they will do a 35 hour synoptic project set by the examining body, under exam conditions. Basically I have to make them work in a quiet room for a week. We have a tutor who monitors progress monthly but otherwise it’s pretty hands off.
The level 3 apprenticeship is via a well known private college and the apprentice has classmates from the big four accountancy firms and from high street banks. The format is different to the other course . A day of classroom learning in London, online learning videos plus two live webinars for every module. They have to produce an assignment per module and the final module will be a project with a presentation to an external examiner. Plus there are Skype sessions with a tutor on at least a monthly basis.
We cover all travel and accommodation relating to the training, and my firm lays on central training days for the apprentices covering things like basic business skills etc. We have to make a commitment to top up the training provided and make sure that we allow time for them to write up their projects.
I haven’t got the level 6 apprenticeship signed off yet but it will be with a local uni. There will be about 4-5 weeks classroom training / exam week per year. It will take 3 years to complete.
I’ve noticed that the degree apprenticeships only seem to be open to levy paying employers. These are firms with at least a £3mill annual salary bill.
My youngest son went on to an apprenticeship with degree learning about a year ago.
Effectively he's working for an organiation and being moved from department to department every 6 moths or so AND being sent away on regular (every 6 weeks seems the average) off-site 3-day learning workshops with the university (which one specifically I can't remember at the moment) so he can prepare and work towards submitting the degree coursework required as he works towards his degree over the next 4 years.
And he gets paid for it!
It's an absolute no brainer compared to going to Uni for 3 years, paying a LOT for the priviledge, and then failing the degree because you spent the last year stoned playing PS4 games in your room. Which is what my other son did!
Effectively he's working for an organiation and being moved from department to department every 6 moths or so AND being sent away on regular (every 6 weeks seems the average) off-site 3-day learning workshops with the university (which one specifically I can't remember at the moment) so he can prepare and work towards submitting the degree coursework required as he works towards his degree over the next 4 years.
And he gets paid for it!
It's an absolute no brainer compared to going to Uni for 3 years, paying a LOT for the priviledge, and then failing the degree because you spent the last year stoned playing PS4 games in your room. Which is what my other son did!
Piersman2 said:
My youngest son went on to an apprenticeship with degree learning about a year ago.
Effectively he's working for an organiation and being moved from department to department every 6 moths or so AND being sent away on regular (every 6 weeks seems the average) off-site 3-day learning workshops with the university (which one specifically I can't remember at the moment) so he can prepare and work towards submitting the degree coursework required as he works towards his degree over the next 4 years.
And he gets paid for it!
It's an absolute no brainer compared to going to Uni for 3 years, paying a LOT for the priviledge, and then failing the degree because you spent the last year stoned playing PS4 games in your room. Which is what my other son did!
Sounds pretty much like the scheme I'm on, and you're in Berkshire too! He work around the area of Didcot/a nearby village?Effectively he's working for an organiation and being moved from department to department every 6 moths or so AND being sent away on regular (every 6 weeks seems the average) off-site 3-day learning workshops with the university (which one specifically I can't remember at the moment) so he can prepare and work towards submitting the degree coursework required as he works towards his degree over the next 4 years.
And he gets paid for it!
It's an absolute no brainer compared to going to Uni for 3 years, paying a LOT for the priviledge, and then failing the degree because you spent the last year stoned playing PS4 games in your room. Which is what my other son did!
Might be worth checking with the professional institution for his intended employment sector. e.g. IET for sparks or IMechE for spanners 
If he has (may not know, I certainly didn't then!) chartered aspirations then the route to same may differ with a degree apprenticeship.
It was a long time ago (75-80!) but I did what was known as a thin sandwich course. 4yr hons degree overlayed with 5 year apprenticeship. I cannot recommend the time in industry more highly. He'll get more practical learning in one week there than a whole term of university. And will likely make better tea & coffee too
One other benefit of combining learning and practice is the wider range of life he'll experience. Going direct from school to college can be somewhat narrowing of social intercourse (oo, er, missus). Although university social life is fab!
If he has (may not know, I certainly didn't then!) chartered aspirations then the route to same may differ with a degree apprenticeship.
It was a long time ago (75-80!) but I did what was known as a thin sandwich course. 4yr hons degree overlayed with 5 year apprenticeship. I cannot recommend the time in industry more highly. He'll get more practical learning in one week there than a whole term of university. And will likely make better tea & coffee too
One other benefit of combining learning and practice is the wider range of life he'll experience. Going direct from school to college can be somewhat narrowing of social intercourse (oo, er, missus). Although university social life is fab!
Edited by jet_noise on Sunday 16th February 11:29
Just to say, we've got someone going through a degree apprenticeship at the moment (in Quantity Surveying) with UCEM and they end up with a fully accredited degree at the end (also fast tracks into RICS APC process in our particular line of work).
I'm involved in mentoring day to day and the apprenticeship side of things is very involved. I'd be pretty happy from an employers point of view as the university organisation seem to have a lot of process in place to ensure students are hitting the right levels.
I'm involved in mentoring day to day and the apprenticeship side of things is very involved. I'd be pretty happy from an employers point of view as the university organisation seem to have a lot of process in place to ensure students are hitting the right levels.
MRichards99 said:
Piersman2 said:
MRichards99 said:
Sounds pretty much like the scheme I'm on, and you're in Berkshire too! He work around the area of Didcot/a nearby village?
Well yes, certainly not a million miles away, a government funded scheme. To the OP
I can only speak for an engineering apprenticeship, but when I did mine. We did 4 years of on site work in different departments and went to college on day release for 4 years (some do block release, so 3 weeks every x months etc!). Educated to HNC / HNC level which is around foundation degree level.
Problem is in Engineering you need a degree to get anywhere in this day and age. so most of the apprentices, then did day release engineering degree / open uni. and work funded / part funded it / self funded
Because you need an engineering degree to get anywhere all the new apprentices and prospective apprentices were asking....do we get a degree at the end of the apprenticeship, the answer was its not guaranteed but its possible.
So standards and numbers of applications slipped because there was not a degree guaranteed. I know they are now offering apprenticeships with degrees to increase the number and quality of applicants.
For eg if you go to CCFE's vacancies page (science research establishment in oxfordshire) they are offering 2 types of engineering apprenticeship. one with and one without degree.
(No affiliation with me, I don't work there and I wasn't an apprentice there, but it will give you an idea.)
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