Benefits of doing a PhD?

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Discussion

cdon

Original Poster:

2,124 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Most PhDs I have seen advertised are self funded, meaning no (or very little) income for three years on top of paying fees to a university so I’ve never really understood why people are keen to pursue them. Is the end goal to end up in academia as a lecturer or to somehow jump into a high paying/specialist job after it to cover the costs?

I’ve come across a small number of Mechanical Engineering phd opportunities recently that are funded by EU grants and would effectively mean a very good salary but would required relocating to another country in Europe.

It’s the first time I’ve really entertained a phd as an option. Specialised research, some interesting company placements and a nice salary to live on for three years.

Although I’m not convinced it would make you any more employable in many mid level Engineering roles? Any thoughts?

Dr Slotter

408 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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If you qualify as a UK 'home' student, which your typical Brit doing a PhD does, nearly all PhDs in engineering (and science, medicine/dentistry) in the UK are sponsored in some way (UK Government and/or industry) so fees are covered and you get a reasonable stipend. What you describe as self funding is more common in arts and some humanities disciplines. If you don't qualify as 'Home', some of those sponsorship are also valid for EU students (for the time being) and overseas students are usually sponsored similarly by their home governments, just to study abroad.

What sort of topic do you think you would be interested in?

StuTheGrouch

5,714 posts

161 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Funded positions are the way to go, though it is possible to self-fund a PhD even you are a home (UK) student. Levels of funding will vary, though will typically cover fees and provide a tax-free stipend of £16-18k.

Depends on your sector as to what qualifies as 'well-paid', however don't discount academia as the end goal. Salaries in academia are generally quite good (£50-60k plus is possible within 10 years of PhD completion, with starting salaries being around £30k for post-doc positions). At senior levels, £80k plus is achievable.

In some sectors in industry a PhD is beneficial, especially if a high level of expertise is required and/or the role entails research (i.e. R&D roles, patent attorneys etc). In many others it doesn't really help. PhDs are essential for a career in academia.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey

5,071 posts

54 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Do it because you want to... It makes little or no salary difference in engineering.

I looked at doing one to continue my rowing after my MSc. I'm really glad I was rejected when they found out I was a rower (previous student was a rower and spent all his time rowing so was never there) as it would have made Jack difference to salary.

I earn more than mates with PhDs in clanky disciplines.

Matters more for science.

popeyewhite

19,622 posts

119 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Personal satisfaction. Unless you're walking into a well paid job straight after then not much else.

ChevronB19

5,737 posts

162 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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I did mine in the mid 90’s, straight after a funded MSc. I got a tax free stipend of 8k per annum (EU funded, at the time this was about enough to ‘exist’ on).

I did it largely because I a) couldn’t think of anything else I wanted to do, b) to prove to myself I could do one, and c) with a vague idea of becoming an academic.

After nearly 5 years, largely due to having a supervisor who didn’t supervise, I did a couple of post docs before realising I actually hated academia and it paid sod all (got offered a postdoc in Miami on $16k in 2001, minimum qualifications PhD and 5 years postdoc) unless you got a lectureship, so jumped ship and went into industry. I wouldn’t have got into the position I’m in now, even though it is well distanced from my original subject (started as a geologist, now in the nuclear industry), without a PhD.

I’d say science it’s still worthwhile, humanities not (unless set on the academia route). Bear in mind over time a bachelors used to make you stand out, then it became a MSc, now it’s a PhD, largely due to increased accessibility to universities (not that that is necessarily a bad thing).

cdon

Original Poster:

2,124 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Dr Slotter said:
What sort of topic do you think you would be interested in?
I would qualify as a UK student.

If I could find something relating to composites, FEA or similar analysis I would be interested. Really an advancement or future technology that I’m not going to have an opportunity to explore in my current role.

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey

5,071 posts

54 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
cdon said:
I would qualify as a UK student.

If I could find something relating to composites, FEA or similar analysis I would be interested. Really an advancement or future technology that I’m not going to have an opportunity to explore in my current role.
Worth speaking to Sheffield uni... AMRC.

cdon

Original Poster:

2,124 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
StuTheGrouch said:
Funded positions are the way to go, though it is possible to self-fund a PhD even you are a home (UK) student. Levels of funding will vary, though will typically cover fees and provide a tax-free stipend of £16-18k
This is typical of what I’ve seen offered for some sponsored UK positions but would still be a substantial pay cut. I’m 3-4 years out of my MSc so on an ok salary and would be reluctant to take a step back in terms of pay.

The EU PhD I have seen would actually be a pay increase and is effectively a scholarship, which placements/secondments in industry built into the program.

It may prove to be even more competitive though to get in...

StuTheGrouch

5,714 posts

161 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
The EU positions sound like they might be Marie Sk?odowska-Curie training networks.... They do pay well, but are extremely competitive. As you have an MSc and some work experience you will be in with a good chance.


StuTheGrouch

5,714 posts

161 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Have a look here- https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/research/phd?Keyword=&...

Some exciting topics in there.

Dr Slotter

408 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
StuTheGrouch said:
The EU positions sound like they might be Marie Sk?odowska-Curie training networks.... They do pay well, but are extremely competitive. As you have an MSc and some work experience you will be in with a good chance.
I thought similarly and agree.

Dr Slotter

408 posts

145 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
cdon said:
I would qualify as a UK student.

If I could find something relating to composites, FEA or similar analysis I would be interested. Really an advancement or future technology that I’m not going to have an opportunity to explore in my current role.
Worth speaking to Sheffield uni... AMRC.
Indeed!

OP - drop me message.

renmure

4,213 posts

223 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
ChevronB19 said:
I did mine in the mid 90’s, straight after a funded MSc. I got a tax free stipend of 8k per annum (EU funded, at the time this was about enough to ‘exist’ on).

I did it largely because I a) couldn’t think of anything else I wanted to do, b) to prove to myself I could do one, and c) with a vague idea of becoming an academic.
Almost identical here but with most of the emphasis on (a)

cdon

Original Poster:

2,124 posts

174 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
Dr Slotter said:
StuTheGrouch said:
The EU positions sound like they might be Marie Sk?odowska-Curie training networks.... They do pay well, but are extremely competitive. As you have an MSc and some work experience you will be in with a good chance.
I thought similarly and agree.
You would be right!

There was an interesting position advertised at the same university where I got my MSc which is how I started looking into it - but unfortunately as it's my 'home' University I wouldn't be eligible for EU funding.

shouldbworking

4,769 posts

211 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
quotequote all
StuTheGrouch said:
Have a look here- https://www.cranfield.ac.uk/research/phd?Keyword=&...

Some exciting topics in there.
What a pile of arse. There are some topics in there that I would be appropriately skilled to do, except of course the fact that I have those skills means I can readily obtain a salary of at least 4-5 times what they are offering.

At those funding levels that will only attract imbeciles who will generate such poor research output that it's just money down the drain.

StuTheGrouch

5,714 posts

161 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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Don't apply then.

From those listings it isn't even nearly possible to glean the exact novelty of the work, the programmes the candidates will go through and the benefits to those paying for the research.

To call anyone willing to undertake a focused programme of research an 'imbecile' is pretty ironic.


StevieBee

12,795 posts

254 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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A PhD will position you as an expert in your field. Employers will come hunting for you and it's generally PhD holders that BBC News calls for a talking head to comment on news stories related to your field.

The impact it has on your career and earnings is sector specific although I work with many and have yet to find and impoverished one. A good friend and associate of mine started out as a council dustman. He sunk himself into studies and got his Doctorate at age 28. By his early 30s, we was (and still is) one of the world's leading Waste Management Consultants with a day rate northwards of £1.2k.

bucksmanuk

2,311 posts

169 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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Benefits of a PhD?
In non-science subjects, from what I’ve seen, almost nothing. I wouldn’t be surprised if it makes you less employable afterwards.

Sciences – it depends – if the PhD is relevant to a company, probably, if its relevant to a whole industry, then you can really put yourself in front of many others.

My youngest nephew has started a PhD in a novel branch of polymer manufacturing and recycling research. He’s only just done his 2nd year, and he’s already had companies approach him to work for them after he’s finished.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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How relevant is it to the career you want?

If it isn't very relevant you'll just be older than the people you are competing with when you do apply for jobs.