Can my employer Do this?

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Discussion

usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Hi

I’ve worked for my current employer since October 2017, on full time contracted hours 07:30-17:30

After a conference cal today they are changing this to 17:00- 02:30, no additional pay, not that I would accept it anyway as those hours aren’t possible for me due to the fact my partner works nights which would leave my 4 and 8 year old alone.

The purpose of the change they said is business productivity, which in my circumstance is complete B.S, the department I work for has a few different make ups, I am the only one in the company for my role, a lot of people are staying on the normal hours.

So I cannot work the new hours, where does that leave me, can they just remove me?

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Have a look at your employment contract. If you haven’t got it, ask for a copy. It should detail what terms you are employed under and how changes to those terms are applied.

StevieBee

12,791 posts

254 months

Wednesday 1st July 2020
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Your contract of employment will (or should) show what the deal is in regards to working hours and changes to these. However, regardless of what is written, I think you would have grounds to contest as the change is unreasonable. If they have said that they can do this, a court would likely determine that the provision has implied limits which seems to be exceeded here.

If you haven't already done so, explain your situation to the company and see what they say. Don't go in guns blazing from the off.


usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
quotequote all
My contract states my current hours, however it also says “your amount of hours or times may be changed to suit business demands”, or to that effect

straight after the conference I emailed those concerned detailing why I cannot do the new times, and why it makes no sense for my role.
I also spoke to my boss who said he was surprised I was part of the reshuffle and wholeheartedly agrees with everything I said.

So hope I get to remain in my hours, there’s zero chance of me moving to a nightshift

MitchT

15,788 posts

208 months

Thursday 2nd July 2020
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usn90 said:
My contract states my current hours, however it also says “your amount of hours or times may be changed to suit business demands”, or to that effect
They tend to say stuff like that. Mine does. It's a "cover all" to get you to agree to whatever they throw at you. Since lockdown a ton of staff have been furloughed to help protect the business financially while the rest of us have been working all the hours god sends to try to respond to the volatile economic landscape. I think I've been earning about £8/hour over the last three months based on the hours I've actually been putting in!

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
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For the avoidance of doubt you have effectively gone from working during the day to working at night?

The key question is what are you willing to do about it?

Pothole

34,367 posts

281 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
quotequote all
bennno said:
Have you been in role / with this company for more than 2 years?
Given your reading skills, can you actually help?

usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
For the avoidance of doubt you have effectively gone from working during the day to working at night?

The key question is what are you willing to do about it?
That’s what they are telling me yes, this comes into affect 2 weeks from the 1/7

Well I am not doing it, I simply can’t.

I have written an email to them stating why I can’t, and also why it is detrimental to my role working such hours, which is all factual, I copied my manager into the email and he replied back saying he agrees with everything I have said.

So basically come the 15th I will be coming in at my normal hours regardless

Turkish91

1,084 posts

201 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
quotequote all
Pothole said:
bennno said:
Have you been in role / with this company for more than 2 years?
Given your reading skills, can you actually help?
laugh

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
quotequote all
usn90 said:
Well I am not doing it, I simply can’t.
It may be that if you write to HR and note that you simply are unable to undertake the new hours thus if they seek to enforce the same you will be constructively dismissed and invite them to reconsider, you may get a suitable reply.

It is a risk/reward scenario.

Twig62

746 posts

95 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
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Won't the fact that child care is involved make a difference to them making you work the new hours ?,

S100HP

12,645 posts

166 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
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Just be wary as there are a lot of people out of work, and a lot more who are going to be out of work pretty soon. Don't cut off your nose....

usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Friday 3rd July 2020
quotequote all
I understand the cutting nose of side of things, but the simple matter is I’d need to leave my kids home alone to make the shifts, which obviously isn’t happening.

by the sounds of things everyone is refusing, if they stick to their guns or not is another matter but in my case I have to.

usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
Had a call today and reading between the lines it’s looking more likely that they won’t be accommodating me, although will know more over the next week or so.

Does anyone have any further info on the unfair/ constructive dismissal and the likelihood this would work out for me in my case, obviously if it gets that far then my days are numbered anyway, although any financial compensation at the present time would be life saving

The_Nugget

639 posts

56 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
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Try this: found with a 5 second google search:

https://workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/the-law-wh...

edc

9,230 posts

250 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
usn90 said:
Had a call today and reading between the lines it’s looking more likely that they won’t be accommodating me, although will know more over the next week or so.

Does anyone have any further info on the unfair/ constructive dismissal and the likelihood this would work out for me in my case, obviously if it gets that far then my days are numbered anyway, although any financial compensation at the present time would be life saving
Have you made a formal request for flexible working? It night be moot now but at least it will be on record.

When it comes to constructive unfair dismissal, you have to leave as the breach is so fundamental. That then leaves you in the scenario of no job of course. You could also wait to be pushed and potentially claim unfair dismissal. Whether you do either will depend on the prospect of success and the potential value of a claim. Don't underestimate the time emotion and effort that goes into such a claim. Your effort might be better spent securing a new role. By the time your case comes around you would hope to be in a new role as it will be months until it is heard and even then no guarantee of a hearing. The company could attempt to settle, but again any settlement payment will be measured against their view of how successfully they can defend the case and how tight they have been in the execution of the procedures.

usn90

Original Poster:

1,391 posts

69 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
edc said:
Have you made a formal request for flexible working? It night be moot now but at least it will be on record.

When it comes to constructive unfair dismissal, you have to leave as the breach is so fundamental. That then leaves you in the scenario of no job of course. You could also wait to be pushed and potentially claim unfair dismissal. Whether you do either will depend on the prospect of success and the potential value of a claim. Don't underestimate the time emotion and effort that goes into such a claim. Your effort might be better spent securing a new role. By the time your case comes around you would hope to be in a new role as it will be months until it is heard and even then no guarantee of a hearing. The company could attempt to settle, but again any settlement payment will be measured against their view of how successfully they can defend the case and how tight they have been in the execution of the procedures.
I haven’t,

Obviously I was/am hoping that they allow me to remain on my current hours, considering I can’t work the new hours their decision is more in the lines of Whether I have a job with them or not.

So in the event they do not accommodate me, I should leave on the spot for constructive dismissal, but if I was to refuse the change and continue to work my normal hours I could claim unfair dismissal if I’m pushed out?

I was having a look before and the claim for constructive dismissal is up-to 52 weeks wages

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
You are at least over the 2 year employment period required to bring a Constructive Dismissal claim.

May I ask, are you female? (I am not simply being nosey but giving consideration to a possible discrimination claim you could potentially pursue)

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
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Is there a reason why you can't simply arrange childcare like most couples who work broadly the same hours do?

edc

9,230 posts

250 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
Don't be misled or misguided by the prospect of a 1 year plus value payout. These sorts of layouts are few and far between. Have a look at the tribunal service website. They normally publish stats on claims and their values and the averages. They are much lower than the newspaper headlines.