E46 m3 collectability
Discussion
Lovely cars and thin on the ground for a reason :
- Rust
- Rear subframe carrier
- Rod bearings
- Head Gasket
- Vanos
And then you add on M priced servicing with valve clearances
Stick a nice one in cotton wool and you might make some money. But if you drive it they can be ruinous. Most expensive car I have owned (to run) by a country mile - far far more so than a 996 Turbo I may add, which always made it difficult to justify.
Still the perfect all rounder.
- Rust
- Rear subframe carrier
- Rod bearings
- Head Gasket
- Vanos
And then you add on M priced servicing with valve clearances
Stick a nice one in cotton wool and you might make some money. But if you drive it they can be ruinous. Most expensive car I have owned (to run) by a country mile - far far more so than a 996 Turbo I may add, which always made it difficult to justify.
Still the perfect all rounder.
Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 14th July 19:56
akkassikder said:
Hi, can you post a link to this podcast please?
Episode one.https://collectingcars.com/podcasts/
shantybeater said:
Lovely cars and thin on the ground for a reason :
- Rust
- Rear subframe carrier
- Rod bearings
- Head Gasket
- Vanos
And then you add on M priced servicing with valve clearances
Stick a nice one in cotton wool and you might make some money. But if you drive it they can be ruinous. Most expensive car I have owned (to run) by a country mile - far far more so than a 996 Turbo I may add, which always made it difficult to justify.
Still the perfect all rounder.
How much are you seriously going to make by not using it though. A couple of grand? Can't see them doubling or tripling etc. Just use it and be happy. - Rust
- Rear subframe carrier
- Rod bearings
- Head Gasket
- Vanos
And then you add on M priced servicing with valve clearances
Stick a nice one in cotton wool and you might make some money. But if you drive it they can be ruinous. Most expensive car I have owned (to run) by a country mile - far far more so than a 996 Turbo I may add, which always made it difficult to justify.
Still the perfect all rounder.
Edited by shantybeater on Tuesday 14th July 19:56
I don't think mine costs me too much but I don't do a lot of mileage. Something like 20k in 8 years. But there have been some big bills so I'd not recommend one for doing 10k a year.
I've had my E46 M3 since 2013. Bought it with 35k on it, full BMW History, 2 owners. Now done 45k, using it at weekends in the summer for shows and the odd spirited drive. Yes an inspection 2 service is expensive for what it is but that's all its needed- normal service items. I've had Brakes, Tyres, Servicing. None of the issues that are talked about frequently but rarely experienced...
Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
joema said:
How much are you seriously going to make by not using it though. A couple of grand? Can't see them doubling or tripling etc. Just use it and be happy.
I don't think mine costs me too much but I don't do a lot of mileage. Something like 20k in 8 years. But there have been some big bills so I'd not recommend one for doing 10k a year.
Totallly agreeI don't think mine costs me too much but I don't do a lot of mileage. Something like 20k in 8 years. But there have been some big bills so I'd not recommend one for doing 10k a year.
PaulsM3 said:
I've had my E46 M3 since 2013. Bought it with 35k on it, full BMW History, 2 owners. Now done 45k, using it at weekends in the summer for shows and the odd spirited drive. Yes an inspection 2 service is expensive for what it is but that's all its needed- normal service items. I've had Brakes, Tyres, Servicing. None of the issues that are talked about frequently but rarely experienced...
Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
Rust also comes from poor factory protection. Next time you see any e46 just have a look at the rear arches, yet in comparison your average z3/z4 of the same era are spotless. Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
Yes you can do lots to stop it setting in, but it needs special attention on an e46 when purchasing and owning, much like old Hondas
A very interesting thread as I think the E46 was the best looking 3 Series by far.
I've only had two E46s and both were the unloved Compacts, a 320td and a 325ti, but I'm not sure sitting in the driver's seat of an M3 would feel that different - at least until you fired it up!
If you don't need back seats there is always the Z4M alternative where you sit lower and just in front of the rear wheels, but get the same S54 engine. I bought my Z4M Coupe last year within that budget and love it, plus I don't need to worry about rust and boot floor issues. It may have Bangle styling influences, but IMHO he got that one right!
I've only had two E46s and both were the unloved Compacts, a 320td and a 325ti, but I'm not sure sitting in the driver's seat of an M3 would feel that different - at least until you fired it up!
If you don't need back seats there is always the Z4M alternative where you sit lower and just in front of the rear wheels, but get the same S54 engine. I bought my Z4M Coupe last year within that budget and love it, plus I don't need to worry about rust and boot floor issues. It may have Bangle styling influences, but IMHO he got that one right!
shantybeater said:
Rust also comes from poor factory protection. Next time you see any e46 just have a look at the rear arches, yet in comparison your average z3/z4 of the same era are spotless.
Yes you can do lots to stop it setting in, but it needs special attention on an e46 when purchasing and owning, much like old Hondas
This, the factory seam sealer shrinks and cracks with age allowing rust to set in unseen, particularly where it is thick like the rear arches. These hairline cracks can be impossible to see unless you have the wheel off, clean and inspect very carefully. I caught it early on my own e46 330ci which is like new with only 38k & garaged etc but the only way to fix it properly was to remove all the sealer and replace with 3M 2 component stuff. Yes you can do lots to stop it setting in, but it needs special attention on an e46 when purchasing and owning, much like old Hondas
There are many of other areas that have poor protection and design faults from the factory (Check under the black plastic covers for the door latches for example!) - they are excellent cars but do need special attention if you intend to keep for a long periods.
They are getting collectible and whoever says they aren’t obviously hasn’t tracked the market over the last 4-5 years.
There are two categories of car here which have increased a fair bit-
1. Low mileage (under 50k imo) in good condition and importantly with good service history To corroborate miles. On most of these you shouldn’t expect big bills Immediately unless they haven’t been looked after.
I think one of these will cost you Late teens/early twenties
2. Reasonable mileage 90-110k with major jobs/fixes done - subframe, bearing shells, vanos, headgasket and smg work done (if yours is an smg). I would pay £12-16/17k upwards for one if right as the above works can add up to substantial amounts. Plenty of people are fastidious and have big jobs done and they aren’t required.
Both of the above cars are collectible and are making strong money. If you disagree then compare to a couple of years ago.
Then you have cars in the £8-10kregion. A bit rough around the edges. These are good to have drive and enjoy and if you don’t mind spending to get things done - vanos, brakes, bodywork etc. These cars won’t really appreciate much. But who knows you could get lucky.
This is my opinion ofcourse but have been into e46 m3s for nearly a decade and owned a few.
There are two categories of car here which have increased a fair bit-
1. Low mileage (under 50k imo) in good condition and importantly with good service history To corroborate miles. On most of these you shouldn’t expect big bills Immediately unless they haven’t been looked after.
I think one of these will cost you Late teens/early twenties
2. Reasonable mileage 90-110k with major jobs/fixes done - subframe, bearing shells, vanos, headgasket and smg work done (if yours is an smg). I would pay £12-16/17k upwards for one if right as the above works can add up to substantial amounts. Plenty of people are fastidious and have big jobs done and they aren’t required.
Both of the above cars are collectible and are making strong money. If you disagree then compare to a couple of years ago.
Then you have cars in the £8-10kregion. A bit rough around the edges. These are good to have drive and enjoy and if you don’t mind spending to get things done - vanos, brakes, bodywork etc. These cars won’t really appreciate much. But who knows you could get lucky.
This is my opinion ofcourse but have been into e46 m3s for nearly a decade and owned a few.
There are a lot of dogs out there just being run on a shoestring - if anything, they are the ones that make the decent cars worth even more.
Just going by some numbers on how many left. According to vehicle registrations for Q1 of 2020 - In the UK there are >7000 E46 M3's registered in total (69% on road and 31% are sorn).
Thats a big number for them to be really collectable.
Comparing against some others in the M lineup (all registered Q1 2020 in the uk)
E46 M3 CSL - YES (121 registered)
E46 M3 CS - YES (178 registered)
F80 M4 GTS - YES (31 registered)
E90 M3 GTS - YES (8 registered)
1M - Yes (231 Registered)
Don't get me wrong - Collectability and rarity are different things and the E46 M3 is regarded highly and perhaps more purist than the newer flock, but Im not sure the E46 is that 'special' considering the numbers (86k E46 M3 cars were made in total worldwide). They are holding value well, but to do so you want a low millage and very well looked after E46 M3 which isnt cheap to do if you daily drive it. There are quite a few of them local to me but I suppose I would notice them considering I had one. I loved mine and had it for 5 years but not sure id say they are that few to be truly collectable.
Just going by some numbers on how many left. According to vehicle registrations for Q1 of 2020 - In the UK there are >7000 E46 M3's registered in total (69% on road and 31% are sorn).
Thats a big number for them to be really collectable.
Comparing against some others in the M lineup (all registered Q1 2020 in the uk)
E46 M3 CSL - YES (121 registered)
E46 M3 CS - YES (178 registered)
F80 M4 GTS - YES (31 registered)
E90 M3 GTS - YES (8 registered)
1M - Yes (231 Registered)
Don't get me wrong - Collectability and rarity are different things and the E46 M3 is regarded highly and perhaps more purist than the newer flock, but Im not sure the E46 is that 'special' considering the numbers (86k E46 M3 cars were made in total worldwide). They are holding value well, but to do so you want a low millage and very well looked after E46 M3 which isnt cheap to do if you daily drive it. There are quite a few of them local to me but I suppose I would notice them considering I had one. I loved mine and had it for 5 years but not sure id say they are that few to be truly collectable.
Edited by BenGismo on Monday 20th July 20:56
There are some cars going for mid 20k + and some sold for that this summer. There are quite a few around but it was the car to have 20 years ago and still is great fun to drive. Can’t compare to m3 gts has 99% of the people looking at m3s can’t afford one of those. And most can’t afford a csl either.
BenGismo said:
There are a lot of dogs out there just being run on a shoestring - if anything, they are the ones that make the decent cars worth even more.
This is bang on. I think E46 M3s are entering the culling zone, where MOT failures start to ramp up, and major failures result in scrapping or SORN. Rust, major failures, track cars and breaking for parts will be the end many of the <£10k cars over the next couple of years. I think a good car, manual, in a good spec, with <100k miles would be a great weekend car, a good hedge against losing any money and shouldn’t break the bank to run. Coupe or Conv depending on your taste.
If you’re looking to buy and put away then it’s needs to be the best-of-the-best and be prepared for a long wait because there’s still way too many of them out there.
I had one a good few years back and I loved it, and I’d certainly consider another in a heart-beat. But, I’d be looking long and hard to find a peach worth keeping and investing in, and spending a little over the odds to get it.
There is a lot of sheds out there, however top end stuff ain't cheap!
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2004-bmw-e46-m...
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2004-bmw-e46-m...
The E46 was at the dip of its depreciation curve in late 2013 when a low mileage manual coupe was 50% lower compared with sale prices from mid-2018 onwards.
Find a nice one such as the car above and I think it'll hold value well, especially as enthusiasts become ever more disappointed with modern cars and want something interesting before lack of petrol stations or increased legislation make it an impossibility.
N.B. one of the big problems for the M3 was the image: great cars but attracted many who either abused them or didn't maintain them to the requisite standard. They aren't expensive cars given their performance and looks.
Find a nice one such as the car above and I think it'll hold value well, especially as enthusiasts become ever more disappointed with modern cars and want something interesting before lack of petrol stations or increased legislation make it an impossibility.
N.B. one of the big problems for the M3 was the image: great cars but attracted many who either abused them or didn't maintain them to the requisite standard. They aren't expensive cars given their performance and looks.
PaulsM3 said:
I've had my E46 M3 since 2013. Bought it with 35k on it, full BMW History, 2 owners. Now done 45k, using it at weekends in the summer for shows and the odd spirited drive. Yes an inspection 2 service is expensive for what it is but that's all its needed- normal service items. I've had Brakes, Tyres, Servicing. None of the issues that are talked about frequently but rarely experienced...
Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
All e46 M3s are prone to rod bearing failure, it’s not something that only affected early cars and fixed via warranty. Subframe- I have the Subframe checked at every MOT and service- no issues.
Vanos- I've owned lots of BMW's, so has my Dad, never had Vanos issues.
Rod Bearings- this was a warranty recall that was performed on early E46 M3's- you can easily check with BMW if it was done. There's a lot of dealers and service techs will actually tell you that it was an Oil Pump issue on those cars which was starving the bottom end.
Rust- Rust?! Rust comes from poor maintenance. Clean your car properly and dry it off before putting it in the garage! Of course arches will rust if you've never taken the plastic arch trim out and cleaned in behind it, or you've never cleaned the crap out of the lip in the rear arches. Mud will sit in there wet and rot it out no matter what car you have.
I don't think they're a car you'll make a lot of money from. There were loads made, still loads around and you can still find good ones. Mine will continue to do a couple of thousand miles each summer because it's my favourite car to drive that I can afford. Simple as that.
So if you want to buy one- do it. There's nothing to be scared of with them and there's loads of indy techs around that can do the jobs that you don't want to pay BMW for.
And most are likely to have a cracked rear axle carrier panel - if someone says theirs has been checked and given the all clear, it most likely means it’s cracked and can’t be seen without properly cleaning the underside or removing the subframe. And if it genuinely isn’t cracked, presume it will be soon.
reggie82 said:
All e46 M3s are prone to rod bearing failure, it’s not something that only affected early cars and fixed via warranty.
I'd have to agree with that - sadly bearing failure seems to be a matter of when not if on the S54 engine! Although they should be fine at 45K. I've read of people having them fail on Z4Ms which didn't go on sale until 2006 which is after M3 production ended!
My Indy changed a set a few weeks ago as a precautionary measure on a car on 74K miles and most of them had copper showing.
So as my Z4MC is on 77K I've got it booked in, for peace of mind if nothing else.
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