Gender Pronouns at Work

[towser]

At work I've recently noticed email signatures appearing with gender pronouns being added ( he / him, she / her etc...) and to be honest I haven't a clue what's going on. I'll be in a meeting with someone with such a signature and their gender is obvious to me.

I'm now a little wary that I'm unwittingly walking in a minefield and could say or do the wrong thing.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what's going on here?

[randlemarcus]

This is a minefield. From a politeness perspective, if someone has told you their pronouns, and you use something else, that's a bit rude. Except if you do it to the wrong person, it elevates from a bit rude to a sackable offence. Which should be worrying.

[Gary29]

I saw a guy from the NHS posting about this on Twitter last night, he had a ridiculous made up job title, 'Inclusion Director' or something similar.

It's just another way of creating an issue to be offended by that never existed in human interaction previously. Yet more nonsense that people have to 'worry' about instead of just getting on with their lives.

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just refer to every person by their given name in all scenarios. ie John did this, John said that, John, John John etc, rather than he, him.

[Polite M135 driver]

Gary29 said:

I saw a guy from the NHS posting about this on Twitter last night, he had a ridiculous made up job title, 'Inclusion Director' or something similar.

It's just another way of creating an issue to be offended by that never existed in human interaction previously. Yet more nonsense that people have to 'worry' about instead of just getting on with their lives.

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just refer to every person by their given name in all scenarios. ie John did this, John said that, John, John John etc, rather than he, him.

it might not have offended you before but I guess to some people, maybe those who have a preference that is non-obvious have always been offended or upset (seems more likely) when people get it wrong.

I'm not super right-on about all this stuff or anything, but on this, I don't think it costs me anything to try and remember people's preferences and then treat them politely by using it.

I think it's just polite to call people what they would prefer to be called.

Mod edit to remove insult

[towser]

Ah OK, maybe sticking with names is the safest thing to do.

Also recently had training on micro aggressions, I honestly think I should live in a cave on my own.

I like to think of myself as open minded, kind and fair....but you really start to question yourself.

[daddy cool]

Gary29 said:

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just refer to every person by their given name in all scenarios. ie John did this, John said that, John, John John etc, rather than he, him.

Assuming John identifies as John 100% of the time, you massive bigot.

[Gary29]

daddy cool said:

You massive bigot.

Did you just ASSUME my prejudices?!

[Magnum 475]

daddy cool said:

Gary29 said:

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just refer to every person by their given name in all scenarios. ie John did this, John said that, John, John John etc, rather than he, him.

Assuming John identifies as John 100% of the time, you massive bigot.

Which some people don't. I've been there, with an employee who couldn't make their mind up if they were male or female. At work they were 'male', but outside work you could meet either version. Extreme care was needed when handling this person to avoid offending them and ending up in disciplinary st.

[i4got]

Polite M135 driver said:

it might not have offended you before but I guess to some people, maybe those who have a preference that is non-obvious have always been offended or upset (seems more likely) when people get it wrong.

I'm not super right-on about all this stuff or anything, but on this, I don't think it costs me anything to try and remember people's preferences and then treat them politely by using it.

I think it's just polite to call people what they would prefer to be called.

I can barely remember peoples names at meetings. No chance of remembering what gender they prefer.

[Flibble]

If someone tells you their preferred pronoun and you don't use it, that's a bit like calling them the wrong name. It's pretty rude, but you might get away with it the first couple of times if its a genuine mistake.

Really we just need to ditch gendered pronouns and solve the whole issue, but that is another can of worms.

[-crookedtail-]

Slightly off topic but I often found it strange when Spanish friends referred to inanimate objects to have a gender. However I don't think it means that things like kettles and cars are actually feminine or masculine. Its just that they have genders in a grammatical sense. I was rubbish at Spanish so cannot elaborate more than that but I think that's correct

On topic, sounds a bit of a minefield yes. However, people should be given a bit of slack with this as with the Spanish example above, its more how the language we use is structured that could make it hard, especially for older folks. Using names, if you can remember them, is probably the best option.

[DocJock]

Flibble said:

If someone tells you their preferred pronoun and you don't use it, that's a bit like calling them the wrong name. It's pretty rude, but you might get away with it the first couple of times if its a genuine mistake.

Really we just need to ditch gendered pronouns and solve the whole issue, but that is another can of worms.

FTFY...

[parabolica]

Gary29 said:

I saw a guy from the NHS posting about this on Twitter last night, he had a ridiculous made up job title, 'Inclusion Director' or something similar.

It's just another way of creating an issue to be offended by that never existed in human interaction previously. Yet more nonsense that people have to 'worry' about instead of just getting on with their lives.

I guess if it comes to it, I'll just refer to every person by their given name in all scenarios. ie John did this, John said that, John, John John etc, rather than he, him.

Diversity & Inclusion professionals aren't anything new, most large orgs have had someone doing that role for a long long time, just typically focused on other areas.

If John told you his given name was John but he prefers to be called Johnny, would you persist with calling him John despite him telling you his preference?

ETA That ^ was just a general observation about the whole thing; I agree using someone's name instead of going the route of him/her/he/she avoids the whole thing.

Edited by parabolica on Thursday 22 October 12:44

[blank]

How does someone put a gender pronoun in their own signature? I don't understand? Mr or Mrs would make sense, but him or her makes no sense when talking about yourself?

[HTP99]

blank said:

How does someone put a gender pronoun in their own signature? I don't understand? Mr or Mrs would make sense, but him or her makes no sense when talking about yourself?

I did wonder this.

Is their e-mail signature "John Smith him"?

[i4got]

HTP99 said:

I did wonder this.

Is their e-mail signature "John Smith him"?

Basically yes although it's generally John Smith he/him"

[Johnnytheboy]

towser said:

At work I've recently noticed email signatures appearing with gender pronouns being added ( he / him, she / her etc...) and to be honest I haven't a clue what's going on. I'll be in a meeting with someone with such a signature and their gender is obvious to me.

I'm now a little wary that I'm unwittingly walking in a minefield and could say or do the wrong thing.

Can anyone enlighten me as to what's going on here?

I've never seen this; what industry or profession do you work in?

[markiii]

happening a lot in ours, virtue signalling gone mad

[HTP99]

i4got said:

HTP99 said:

I did wonder this.

Is their e-mail signature "John Smith him"?

Basically yes although it's generally John Smith he/him"

Ridiculous, what's wrong with someone replying to an e-mail, assuming it is Mr/Mrs/Miss/Ms...etc, being wrong and the recipient politely correcting them.

I am Alex, Alex is unisex, I am male, my work e-mail signature is "Alex surname", if someone responded to an e-mail from me with "Ms/Mrs/Miss surname", I would just reply correcting them and most likely suggest that they use my first name anyway.

If I get e-mails from people who I'm not sure about, a foreign name for example or a unisex name, my response back would be "Dear First name Surname", done!

Incidentally I had an enquiry from a woman with a mahoosive chip on her shoulder, earlier on in the year she sent a contact form to us with "Mrs" selected as her title, I rang and left a message for "Mrs Field", she rang back, my colleague took her return call, put it through to me saying "Mary Field for you".

Of course I greeted her on the phone "Mrs Field", she went mental as she doesn't use pronouns, going off on one about being labelled etc, horrible woman she was, she likes to be addressed as "Mary Field".

You can't bloody win.

Edited by HTP99 on Thursday 22 October 15:11

[CustardOnChips]

Come work in construction.
Everyone is referred to a useless . No need to remember names or gender pronouns.