Things you hate about Job Adverts/Recruitment
Discussion
craigjm said:
This is total bulls
t though. There are very few things you can buy in this world that truly deserve to be price on application and a job is not one of them
That as maybe, but salaries are strange things, lots of people can be put off even applying to things if they deem themselves not to be 'worth' it. I think on balance, at a certain level, its fine not to list it. More often than not if I ask the question of the recruiter they come back with quite a broad scale, and most of the time it is in-line with expectation. And often you can negotiate above these scales anyway. I don't claim to be a rarity in any sense but if companies are spending a lot of cash and you've beaten the rest of the pool of interviewee's then the flex that exists in terms of paying for you is quite large, and listing a job with a range of tens of thousands isn't that useful.t though. There are very few things you can buy in this world that truly deserve to be price on application and a job is not one of them 
Countdown said:
The ones that pay "PH properly" won't say "competitive" either.
I got "competitive total reward" on a job spec the other day, not megabucks, but probably more than the majority earn, so I do think leaving it open is fine. For reasons stated. I asked what they had in mind (as I'm nosey, I had no intention of going for it, just good to know what the market is doing), and he came back with a medium spread that was pretty on the money for the role in question.okgo said:
craigjm said:
This is total bullst though. There are very few things you can buy in this world that truly deserve to be price on application and a job is not one of them
That as maybe, but salaries are strange things, lots of people can be put off even applying to things if they deem themselves not to be 'worth' it. I think on balance, at a certain level, its fine not to list it. More often than not if I ask the question of the recruiter they come back with quite a broad scale, and most of the time it is in-line with expectation. And often you can negotiate above these scales anyway. I don't claim to be a rarity in any sense but if companies are spending a lot of cash and you've beaten the rest of the pool of interviewee's then the flex that exists in terms of paying for you is quite large, and listing a job with a range of tens of thousands isn't that useful.t though. There are very few things you can buy in this world that truly deserve to be price on application and a job is not one of them craigjm said:
The problem is that you make certain assumptions about salary based on role title and sometimes it can be very wrong. I saw a Vice President role the other day that looked like it should be paying £150k plus from what they were asking and, for once, this did have a salary listed and it was 70k. Not the kind of salary I would expect from that title, and the role description of what they wanted come to that. But at least they were honest with the salary
There are always outliers of course.Pay scales that say something like 19-27 grand.
Basically meaning if you are exceptional we will pay praps 25, but what we really want is a kid.
Over complicated job descriptions, especially true of MoD places.
Pictures in adverts in papers of the Asian woman in a turban police uniform, basically telling you if you fit this profile you have a high chance of getting the job, because no-one fitting this profile works here!
Basically meaning if you are exceptional we will pay praps 25, but what we really want is a kid.
Over complicated job descriptions, especially true of MoD places.
Pictures in adverts in papers of the Asian woman in a turban police uniform, basically telling you if you fit this profile you have a high chance of getting the job, because no-one fitting this profile works here!
LukeBrown66 said:
Pay scales that say something like 19-27 grand.
Basically meaning if you are exceptional we will pay praps 25, but what we really want is a kid.
i think those are a good idea. Firstly they let the Applicant know that there's scope for negotiation. Secondly it gives the Hiring Manager the flexibility to appoint who they think is best value for money. I dislike paying a new recruit the same money as someone who has been there 3/5/20 years just because the payscale is fixed. I'd much rather have the flexibility to pay people in accordance with what i think they are worth to the Company.Basically meaning if you are exceptional we will pay praps 25, but what we really want is a kid.
Salaries on jobs are driven by industry culture, in the world I work (SaaS, Cloud, Big Data, Business App Services) then they are NEVER in the job ad, those in the industry know roughly what the bands are for any given role from BDR (Biz Dev rep) through to Strategic / Global Account Directors (managing huge income accounts such as a Diageo, Barclays, Pfizer) so there is really is no need.
Rarely do people make a transition from another industry to tech within the sales organisations, once you are into G&A functions, finance, legal etc then they are less about the industry and more about the skills and you will see movement from supply side to client side etc, but even then those markets know their value, as do the end clients.
If you need to know the salary for one of our roles then you don't really know the market, if you don't know the market then your chances of success are quite slime.
I can count on one hand in the last ten years where I have had a large enough disconnect between candidate desire and company budget to allow a top notch candidate to walk, I also know in those rare cases where they have ended up and quite often its earlier stage / greater risk opportunities that will pay their premium, those same people have also had limited tenures as those opportunities don't always swim but sink.
I cover package and expectation in every first call, we get the candidates desire then rate the candidate against the budget and a cost / benefit analysis of that candidate against the role we have open, I have many many genuine cases where I have gone ot bat for a candidate within the business because their desire is below the pay window, no salary on an ad, doesn't mean a crap salary.
Rarely do people make a transition from another industry to tech within the sales organisations, once you are into G&A functions, finance, legal etc then they are less about the industry and more about the skills and you will see movement from supply side to client side etc, but even then those markets know their value, as do the end clients.
If you need to know the salary for one of our roles then you don't really know the market, if you don't know the market then your chances of success are quite slime.
I can count on one hand in the last ten years where I have had a large enough disconnect between candidate desire and company budget to allow a top notch candidate to walk, I also know in those rare cases where they have ended up and quite often its earlier stage / greater risk opportunities that will pay their premium, those same people have also had limited tenures as those opportunities don't always swim but sink.
I cover package and expectation in every first call, we get the candidates desire then rate the candidate against the budget and a cost / benefit analysis of that candidate against the role we have open, I have many many genuine cases where I have gone ot bat for a candidate within the business because their desire is below the pay window, no salary on an ad, doesn't mean a crap salary.
redrabbit29 said:
I was looking at Microsoft roles a while back. I noticed many of them said:
"A real obsession for helping our customers"
Seriously. If you have this obsession then I'd hate to work with you. I'd also imagine clients would get sick of it.
Why can't jobs just be worded normally
To be a first grade customer success manager at MSFT you need exactly that, its not a role for the lethargic .... just as an example."A real obsession for helping our customers"
Seriously. If you have this obsession then I'd hate to work with you. I'd also imagine clients would get sick of it.
Why can't jobs just be worded normally
CoolHands said:
How about this for wky bks, on an advert in my field I clicked on recently
You do know that Data Lake is a Microsoft Azure product don't you? Or is there a whoosh parrot coming my way?ky bks, on an advert in my field I clicked on recently ad said:
..Sitting within this function, the Business Intelligence team provides critical data oriented services that underpin the operations of the Trust, this criticality is only increasing. The team manages the Trust's Data Lake, supporting the Trust’s appetite for...
My boldAnyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
CharlieCrocodile said:
You do know that Data Lake is a Microsoft Azure product don't you? Or is there a whoosh parrot coming my way?
Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
How do you have no idea what you are worth? That seems mad to me. Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
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