Things you hate about Job Adverts/Recruitment
Discussion
dibblecorse said:
Why would an agent try and get you in for 10k less than he knew the client would pay of you were worth it and relevant, the only person he is harming is himself !!!
No idea. I was told by the recruiter my salary expectations are ok. Went for interviews got through the final stage and was told employer only willing to pay £10k less than my expectations. That was a waste of my time.
2 more things from me.
On the pay side of things, I have been for a second interview and have been at the stage of talking about the money, the job had been advertised by 2 different agencies and on both adverts the pay was 5k and 7k higher than they were actually paying!
Seems like the agency had exaggerated the pay to get interest.
The other issue I am having currently is that the role I do is typically a shift based job. Most job adverts I see never seem to detail what shifts they want. Mon-fri, 4on 4 off, days, nights, double days. The adverts always just say "be prepared to work shift".
That detail makes a huge difference in so many ways. I don't want to work nights, pay at X amount is a good wage for mon-fri, but the same pay for nights may be very low.
On the pay side of things, I have been for a second interview and have been at the stage of talking about the money, the job had been advertised by 2 different agencies and on both adverts the pay was 5k and 7k higher than they were actually paying!
Seems like the agency had exaggerated the pay to get interest.
The other issue I am having currently is that the role I do is typically a shift based job. Most job adverts I see never seem to detail what shifts they want. Mon-fri, 4on 4 off, days, nights, double days. The adverts always just say "be prepared to work shift".
That detail makes a huge difference in so many ways. I don't want to work nights, pay at X amount is a good wage for mon-fri, but the same pay for nights may be very low.
CharlieCrocodile said:
You do know that Data Lake is a Microsoft Azure product don't you? Or is there a whoosh parrot coming my way?
Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
Data Lake is a very common and standard term. Literally every big company or organisation will have one and refer to it in that way. It’s a home for pre-processed and unstructured data.Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
The other one, is they post an hourly rate close to min wage for a job that should clearly be much more, and I just don't understand why they do it......
Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
What I do know is i've applied for some on the assumption that the wage is a mistake and i've not heard anything back, what I also know is that for less suitable roles, i've had agencies hounding me for days on end.
There's stuff going on in the background at recruitment agencies, which makes no sense at all, and it's extremely frustrating.
dmahon said:
CharlieCrocodile said:
You do know that Data Lake is a Microsoft Azure product don't you? Or is there a whoosh parrot coming my way?
Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
Data Lake is a very common and standard term. Literally every big company or organisation will have one and refer to it in that way. It’s a home for pre-processed and unstructured data.Anyway, looking for roles at the moment on linkedin, hardly any have salaries listed which is annoying in the extreme.
lyonspride said:
The other one, is they post an hourly rate close to min wage for a job that should clearly be much more, and I just don't understand why they do it......
Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
If they manage to get somebody then it's all fine. If they don't get anybody they'll re-advertise at a higher salary until they DO get somebody.Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
Sometimes hiring managers or HR don't know what the market rate is (especially for specialist roles). For example we're looking for PQ/NQ Accountants and having to offer £7k to £10k more than this time two years ago.
Countdown said:
lyonspride said:
The other one, is they post an hourly rate close to min wage for a job that should clearly be much more, and I just don't understand why they do it......
Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
If they manage to get somebody then it's all fine. If they don't get anybody they'll re-advertise at a higher salary until they DO get somebody.Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
Sometimes hiring managers or HR don't know what the market rate is (especially for specialist roles). For example we're looking for PQ/NQ Accountants and having to offer £7k to £10k more than this time two years ago.
Countdown said:
lyonspride said:
The other one, is they post an hourly rate close to min wage for a job that should clearly be much more, and I just don't understand why they do it......
Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
If they manage to get somebody then it's all fine. If they don't get anybody they'll re-advertise at a higher salary until they DO get somebody.Is it a fake job ad? does the employer really think they can pay that wage for skilled/qualified staff? the mind boggles.
Sometimes hiring managers or HR don't know what the market rate is (especially for specialist roles). For example we're looking for PQ/NQ Accountants and having to offer £7k to £10k more than this time two years ago.
The problem is that the word competitive means different things to different people. Taking a car analogy ALL of the F1 teams think they are "competitive" or they wouldn't be on the grid. To say that Mercedes is competing with Haas, whilst technically correct, is in reality ludicrous. In the same way a competitive salary can vary wildly. It is all a total joke. In my view they should bring in legislation that says advertising a job without a salary or a range is illegal. So much wasted time and thats time you don't have if you're unemployed like a large number of job seekers. Imagine the nightmare of doing your Tesco shop and each product being marked competitive and then finding out you cant afford your basket when you get to the till the Daily Mail and others would be up in arms about it within days.
I wasn't going to respond but the continual moaning has dragged me in.
Ok - I am hiring, lets say its Reading, Woking, Romford or St Albans. You work in London. My team are relatively junior and I want to hire a more experienced person to beef things up.
I ask around for pay data and I look at my current team. I set the teams pay as the low end of my range say 40k and from asking around (benchmarking) I discover competitors pay an average of 50k and larger London firms pay 60k
I assume someone at 60k is probably over the top, but if they are a good fit and worth it in value add - I might be tempted.
So what number do I write on the advert ?
If I write 40k which is my current team, I won't get a more senior person.
If I put 50k I will piss of my team
If I put 50k the market average, someone in a similar role is probably on 50k and lets be honest everyone expects at least 10% to make it worthwhile moving companies
So I could put 55k to get someone - but then I am guaranteeing I am going to pay at least 55k since anyone on 45k applying will ask for the job rate I put in the advert
OR
I put 'attractive salary and benefits'
Go figure
Gargamel said:
I set the teams pay as the low end of my range say 40k and from asking around (benchmarking) I discover competitors pay an average of 50k and larger London firms pay 60k
[snip]
If I put 50k I will piss of my team
If you're underpaying for the role then pissing off your team has probably already happened.[snip]
If I put 50k I will piss of my team
It is so obvious the reason they don't I'm surprised you had to explain it, but well done for doing so.
Some places do publish from what I've seen, but these tend to be the huge companies of the world that have a million different bands and will publish the range of the band that the role sits within. That mitigates most of the issues above, but obviously most companies are not big enough to have such a structure in place.
Some places do publish from what I've seen, but these tend to be the huge companies of the world that have a million different bands and will publish the range of the band that the role sits within. That mitigates most of the issues above, but obviously most companies are not big enough to have such a structure in place.
Gargamel said:
I wasn't going to respond but the continual moaning has dragged me in.
Ok - I am hiring, lets say its Reading, Woking, Romford or St Albans. You work in London. My team are relatively junior and I want to hire a more experienced person to beef things up.
I ask around for pay data and I look at my current team. I set the teams pay as the low end of my range say 40k and from asking around (benchmarking) I discover competitors pay an average of 50k and larger London firms pay 60k
I assume someone at 60k is probably over the top, but if they are a good fit and worth it in value add - I might be tempted.
So what number do I write on the advert ?
If I write 40k which is my current team, I won't get a more senior person.
If I put 50k I will piss of my team
If I put 50k the market average, someone in a similar role is probably on 50k and lets be honest everyone expects at least 10% to make it worthwhile moving companies
So I could put 55k to get someone - but then I am guaranteeing I am going to pay at least 55k since anyone on 45k applying will ask for the job rate I put in the advert
OR
I put 'attractive salary and benefits'
Go figure
45k-55k depending upon experience. It's really not difficult.Ok - I am hiring, lets say its Reading, Woking, Romford or St Albans. You work in London. My team are relatively junior and I want to hire a more experienced person to beef things up.
I ask around for pay data and I look at my current team. I set the teams pay as the low end of my range say 40k and from asking around (benchmarking) I discover competitors pay an average of 50k and larger London firms pay 60k
I assume someone at 60k is probably over the top, but if they are a good fit and worth it in value add - I might be tempted.
So what number do I write on the advert ?
If I write 40k which is my current team, I won't get a more senior person.
If I put 50k I will piss of my team
If I put 50k the market average, someone in a similar role is probably on 50k and lets be honest everyone expects at least 10% to make it worthwhile moving companies
So I could put 55k to get someone - but then I am guaranteeing I am going to pay at least 55k since anyone on 45k applying will ask for the job rate I put in the advert
OR
I put 'attractive salary and benefits'
Go figure
But it may be the same role.
On my team I know for a fact that I earn tens of thousands more than people with the same job title. In fact due to the quirks of some companies you may find that you actually earn more than people with a more senior title owing to the salary you asked for when you came in and the fact they may have been in place for years taking small rises along the way.
All of these things are just issues that you don't need and can mitigate with one word - competitive.
On my team I know for a fact that I earn tens of thousands more than people with the same job title. In fact due to the quirks of some companies you may find that you actually earn more than people with a more senior title owing to the salary you asked for when you came in and the fact they may have been in place for years taking small rises along the way.
All of these things are just issues that you don't need and can mitigate with one word - competitive.
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